Speed trap -- Watch out

[MinDak Hunter]

Hitman- You had a bad day end of story. I wish you would have had a better experience with the local PD but that much is over now. I can say the computer (MDC's) system in the FM area can be very slow at times 5-10 min to run a name and address. Very often the officer can check by the suspects drivers license number but if you don't have that you need to wait...

I always tell people there are at least 3 TRUE sides to every offense, what the cop witnessed, what the suspect thought he/she was doing, and what the finding of fact is by the judge.

Have you had your car checked for speed maybe he did give you a small break on MPH. A car that's off by 1-2 MPH at 30-40 mile per hour would be off by a whole lot at 75.

Maybe the cop was having a bad day, I don't know the whole situation and he shouldn't have been rude but it happens. I know I've been rude to suspects before and try not to let it happen because the suspect is having a really bad day on my account. Maybe he was upset that it was so easy for him to stop you and "many others" for the same thing over and over during the same short stretch of time.

My question is, why do people feel they should get breaks from cops? I often write cites for a lesser offense and have reduced speed to give people a "break" but since when did society decide it's up to cops to give "breaks"?

Will the judge give you a break? I've seen it happen so I suggest that would be the place to start. Or maybe you could contact the County Attorney and work on a plea bargain.

I have one last question and I DO NOT want to rub salt in your wounds; but why if you knew it was 55 did you not have your wife slow down?

Mike

[vitalshot5]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[Dahitman44]

MinDak --

Thanks for the reply. I am not going to push the issue in court or anything like that. I understand that my wife was speeding and we were not watching the signs.

My wife had our plates run at the DMV and they came back in the system so I don't know if he was having a really bad day and ran the plates wrong or what.

I guess it will just go down as a really tough lesson.

Thanks to all.

Hit

[cliffy]

Good lord...where to start?

1) The reason you have been seeing so many MPD guys on the "I" is due to the fact they have received grant money form the State Patrol to write speeding tickets....all the officers are working on their days off...as it is overtime money. Its a wave of enforcement by State, County and local law enforcment called H.E.A.T. This stands for Highway Enforcement of Aggressive Traffic. If you google MN State Patrol HEAT, you will find a few press releases detailing law enforcement's efforts regarding this program. The MPD officers only can work certain days and certain hours and it must be on the interstate. Mostly weekends and high traffic times. The whole idea behind the effort is to ENFORCE THE LAW regarding speeding on the interstate!

2) If you were caught speeding. Deal with it...and don’t think you automatically deserve a break in the speed just because you were nice. If you think the officer was rude, make a complaint. All traffic stops are AUDIO and VIDEO recorded. You have the option to sit down with a supervisor and watch the entire thing from the officer’s POV. Give me some concrete examples as to how he/she was rude. Was he rude just because he didn’t give you the break you thought you deserved? What do you mean by reading the riot act? Give me specifics. Sorry the Traffic Stop took so long...that is what happens when people don’t have their DL and there are issues with the plates. This happens a lot. Its just the circumstances of the situation.

Some officers write for the full amount while others write down. Some of us just don’t feel like writing down after giving someone a break and then ending up in court. That has happened too many times...just easier to treat everyone the same. If you treat people the same....there is no argument over favoritism or bias.

3.) MPD does not have a quota system. Quotas are illegal in MN. The law suit was dropped.

4.) I have worked a few of these shifts....and a person gets sick and tired of hearing all the excuses in the world about why they were speeding. “I didn’t see the signs, my speedometer must be off, I was just following the flow of traffic....etc.” Here is a gift....most of us that work these shift wont even stop a car until it hits 69 or 70 mph. Good lord, there is your break!!!...you are getting a 14 to 15 mph cushion......how generous can we get? I often sit below the bridge that Hitman talks about...and the speed zone changes over a MILE before that area...and if I recall correctly, its marked by two oversized speed signs with orange flags hanging off the side....plus two large "reduce speed ahead" signs before that point.

5.) “Speed Trap”? So, what did the officers due to trick you into driving 20 over the limit? Does not sound like a trap to me. How about a “concentrated area of speed enforcement”?

It just gets to me that people still think that they got a ticket or a certain ticket due to the fact the officer must have been in a “Bad mood”. I find this to be another example of how people in our society make excuses and fail to take responsibility for their own actions. It had to be the cops fault.......he was in a bad mood. First of all, my parents raised me better than that....I don’t let my “mood” interfere with my work. Secondly, I am a professional, thus I don’t let my mood interfere on a simple traffic stop. Third, even if number one and two were not true....everything is recorded! Why would I risk getting some days in the hay over some st&^%$ traffic stop?

Your comments about not wanting to call MPD due to the fact Grant is no longer chief and no one would listen. That is just plain out crazy. I find it rather insulting to think that you would believe that just because you don’t have an “in” with the MPD that we would just turn our backs on your complaint or concern.

That is my two cents worth.

Cliffy.

[Dahitman44]

Cliffy --

I did not post this to get you mad, but I kinda thought you would. We have been going through some sad times with the death of our dog and we were talking about it and not paying attention. Yep I freely admit it.

Yes he was doing his job -- A job I would never want, but am glad that somebody does. Most people say they would hate my job too. I upset many people every day the paper comes out. It goes with the territory just like your job does. Sometimes you upset people by doing your job.

As I stated many times earlier. I also stated that I have a few friends in LE and I know what their take on it was.

I was just surprised that the ticket was so high. With our clean record I had hoped for a 1-mile break on the speed.

THAT IS ALL I WAS SAYING.

I did not post this to get you bend out of shape, I just was upset and yes I can see all sides.

I put the Grant thing in and I should not have. I just know him I I would have felt comfortable talking to him. That's all. But I should NOT have put that in.

I admit when I make a mistake. I do it freely. I make a lot at the paper. (spell check and then some.)

We even have fact errors. Yep. Sometimes we just plain blow it and people chew our tails up and down the street.

I just wanted to complain a little because I think the officer could have dropped it. That is it.

Please don't take things like this to heart, and I am glad you responded.

Thanks, Cliffy.

Hit

[cliffy]

Hey Hit:

Dont get me wrong...I am not upset at all....just giving you my view...sorry it came across that way. I was responding to your post and a few other comments by others....sorta just ran into one long post....sorry it came out harsh...not my intent. I am far from upset or bent out of shape over it. Ok, maybe you got me on my shoe box with a little steam...sorry, my bad. I just thought I would give my two cents.

Each officer must do their job in a fashion that they can live with. Meaning, some of us write for the full amount everytime while others write down. There is no right or wrong way of doing it. I dont judge other officers that do things differently then I do....it works for me and it works for them. Again, sorry if I came across harshly.

Cliffy.

[Hoffer]

I travel to Fargo quite a bit for work. Those signs before are well posted "55 mph" beginning in 3/5th of a mile I think it is with big orange markers on the bottom of the sign. Its hard to slow down and go to 55 - but I have learned that when you see these orange flags - that the police are usually going to be watching very close! I usally now only go around 70 now anyway on 94 - but for ANY area - not just this Fargo stretch - when you see the big orange markers under the signs warning to slow down - take it seriously becuase they are there for a reason - and in my opinion those areas are always watched closely - I almost always see someone pulled over in those stretches - the moorhead ones and other ones....by the way - Iowa is the worst!! On any county road marked 55 - if you are even CLOSE to 60 you are getting pulled over - and there is no leeway whatsoever - you are GOING to get a ticket - and we are just talking 5 mph over the posted...in comparsion for MN I think the law enforcement is much more lenient.

[Dahitman44]

No problem Cliffy.

When most of LE contacts each day are negative for those he or she is talking to I can understand many reactions.

Again I was not looking to rag on anyone -- just the simple fact that EVERY officer I know -- that is a lot -- will write a ticket down. That make sit look like a normal practice to me.

I recently ran into one that did not write tickets down. That kinda floored me.

They have also told me that if a person is going to be a (contact us) then they will earn their tickets. Most officers know that sometimes "good" people just make an honest mistake. Just did not pay attention.

We should have but it does happen. We all make mistakes.

Well -- enough on this.

The boat new boat is going in with three problem for the second time this summer.

Great.

[Jim Hudson]

Interesting story to say the least, but something we as law enforcement officers come across on almost a daily basis.

The speed limit is the speed limit, and some officers follow that to the letter of the law. That is their discretion and how they operate, and you can not fault someone for that, as speeding is one the biggest reasons for traffic accidents and deaths here in the US. I am happy to hear that you had this experience instead of having the officer have to respond to your family in an accident due to the vehicles speed or someone elses speed.

Not having a drivers license on your person is also something that frustrates a police officer, because 90 percent of the time, they have no clue who you are from adam or eve. Usually someone has something in their vehicle that shows who they are, a credit card, a letter, some other form of id that makes us feel a little bit more at ease. But when someone does not produce anything, it makes us wonder who we are really dealing with. Yes, 90 percent of the time, you are who you say you are, but 10 percent of the time we get the wool pulled over our eyes. Dont be suprised if this happens again, if an officer asks you to step out and have your photo taken or to record your image on the in squad camera, just in case. Its the nature of our jobs, people lie to police officers on a constant basis and we just want to know who you really are, so some joe schmoe doesnt loose his drivers license for not paying a citation that they never received. Thank god your wife was not held until id was produced, taken to the PD or jail, until you could do this. Not sure in MN, but in WI, a law enforcement officer can do this. A little over the top for a traffic stop of a family, but I know it has been done. As I stated before, if you get burned, you dont want it to happen again.

Another discretionary thing some officers do, is they write the citation for the full amount. They leave it up to the judge, district attorney, or city attorney to give any breaks. I worked for department in western WI, where the judge would become upset if we wrote down citations for under the actual amount, telling us, that was his job. That type of behavior is few and far between, but maybe this is this officers way of thinking.

Lots of things go through our mind during a traffic stop. We want to head home to our familys and loved ones at the end of the day. If you feel the officer was rude, take it up with his SGT, LT, or Chief. Or talk to him yourself and find the scoop. We all speculate, but until we hear it from the horses mouth, we will continue to second guess the officers decision.

Just my 02 cents. I am sorry you had a bad experience, but most people who get a ticket see it as a bad experience. At times we have to put ourselves in the officers shoes to see the real truth.

[Kingfisher]

Sounds like the PO's responding to this are good guys and I beleive they are, especially because they are FM'ers in the first place . Lets not forget, not all PO's are "good guys", human nature doesn't change. While serving in the Army MP's we had two kinds of guys. 1. The MP's that were there to protect lives and property and deal with law enforecment issues, which included showing repect to others. 2. The other segment of MP's were power hungry self enrichment individuals that refused to use discretion under any circumstance. Their bully attitude would constantly get them into trouble which was also a reflection on the whole company.

Case in point, my wife was coming back from DL a couple years ago in her new Acura, the (Contact Us Please) had just sealcoated HYW 59, rather than get tar and rocks blasting her car she chose to drive on the tar shoulder of the hyw, a PO stopped her and gruffly wanted to see her drivers license which she produced, he asked why she was driving on the shoulder and she told him. He said that if she didn't drive on the main highway he would ticket her. In my opinion he was out of line, and so was his attitude.

[Dahitman44]

King --

We all have bad days and it sounds like your wife ran into a guy having a bad day.

I have known a few LE's over the years that5 have started out with the TOP COP attitude. It happens. They think they have to be tough with everyone. Over time they realize what is important and what is not.

It is like a Hawley-wood stop. Very few drivers come to a 100 percent complete stop as the letter of the law states. Sometimes officers have to "crack down" on this behavior with warnings or tickets.

Sometimes they have the Top Cop mentality.

All-in-all I think 90 percent of them do the best they can. Some can be bad apples and others can have a bad day. Just like all of us.

Thanks for the thoughts on this.

Hit

[zpinca]

I am a LEO in Grand Forks, and believe it or not; I had someone contest a speeding ticket saying that "I falsified a court document". The guy was going 47 in a 30 mph zone, and I wrote the ticket for 45. From 1-15 mph over the speed limit resulted in the same fine, so this was the same as if he were going 1 mph over. His whole defense was that I should have written the ticket for 47, and since I didn't; the ticket should be dropped, and I should be punished. The judge was upset and ended up requiring the higher bond from the guy; but to this day, if I am issuing a citation, I issue it for the full speed. I have never heard of anyone else ever hearing that defense in court, but the MPD officer has a reason for why he did what he did. Its unfortunate if he was rude, but as long as he didn't do anything illegal; its just a more expensive reminder to pay attention. Besides, not paying attention results in more traffic crashes than aggressive driving and being aware of what you are doing; and if you are aware of what you are doing, accept your punishment.

[eyehunter]

Quote:

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I travel to Fargo quite a bit for work. Those signs before are well posted "55 mph" beginning in 3/5th of a mile I think it is with big orange markers on the bottom of the sign. Its hard to slow down and go to 55 - but I have learned that when you see these orange flags - that the police are usually going to be watching very close!

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Orange flags or not...if it says 55 you should drive 55.

I also travel this road to work everyday. And I find that if I have my cruise control set anywhere between 65 and 70 mph, that if I hit the "De-celerate" button on the cruise as soon as I hit the "Begin 55 MPH 3/5 Mile Ahead" sign, I am going 55 mph before I get to the 55 mph sign. So I really don't understand how you find it hard to get from 70 to 55 in 3/5 of a mile. Why do you think they put those signs at 3/5 of a mile??? and not an even 1/2 mile???

[Kingfisher]

Have any of you noticed that almost everone slows down to around 55 mph coming into town, only to see most everyone speeds up to 60-62 mph in the city. By the way if you drive the posted speed limit on I 494 in the Cities you may get some hi-fours. The moving traffic stays at around 70 mph in the 60 mph zone, unless there is traffic congestion.

[Dahitman44]

Eye --

makes perfect sense. We just don;t travel to Fargo very much anymore -- sad I know -- and kinda gapped it out.

[Dahitman44]

King --

Very true. You can be a hazard in the cities if you drive the speed limit. I know a lot o people will not agree -- but it is true.

[DEADhead]

Quote:

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Very true. You can be a hazard in the cities if you drive the speed limit

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as much as I hate speeding, that's one place I'd prefer to drive with the traffic if there is any congestion. I spent A LOT of time working around the road when working for metro mn/(Contact Us Please), I noticed that your way better off going with the flow in moderate traffic than driving the posted limit. But does it make it right? No. I don't condone speeding, but I also don't like the way people operate their vehicles, sometimes matching the speed appears to be the only way to drive defensively out there. There are way too many drivers down there that overreact and overcompensate in their reactions with a vehicle. I know, I've setup up many road closures down there while they scraped flesh off of the pavement and state patrol re-enacted the scene. However, the majority of the time I'm down there, I'm in the "company" vehicle, and hence don't speed. It can be white knuckle driving at times, and you can anger a lot of people. I've gotten my fair share of the "minnesota salute" while in a state rig driving the limit. You just grin and bear it.

One thing though, now matter how busy it is, never speed in a work zone. It used to be me out there, now it's other fellow FMers like Paul braving the work zone. Between us, we could probably share plenty of horror stories about speeders and other inattentive drivers entering a road closure in a construction zone while people are working there. I've had to take a ditch a few times.....

Bottom line, be safe out there and PAY ATTENTION. We all have plenty of things that can distract us while in the car. Let's notice those speed changes, emergency vehicles approaching, construction zones, etc. Driving is a privilege and not a right, let's act responsibly. now I'm off my soapbox.

[eyehunter]

Quote:

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Eye --

makes perfect sense. We just don;t travel to Fargo very much anymore -- sad I know -- and kinda gapped it out.

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I wasn't referring to you hitman, I was commenting on the person that I quoted in that last post. It sounds to me that it was just a big brain fart on your's and your wife's part. Tough luck, but I bet you won't forget your license again.

[Dahitman44]

Yeah --

Women and their purses.

My wife thinks i need a Man Sack

[eyehunter]

Quote:

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My wife thinks i need a Man Sack

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Don't you already have one???

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

[Dahitman44]

Yeah -- and now I can legally carry my pea-shooter in it. .

Couldn't resist that one -- it has many meanings.

[eyehunter]

Maybe she meant she would give it back to you.

[Dahitman44]

cute.

[eyehunter]

Just kidding man....I better quit now before I get myself in trouble.

[Dahitman44]

Yeah --

Hate to get thrown jail again.

[lhk53]

I thought there was a law that says 20 over is careless or reckless driving and they can take you right to jail, or is that just for truck drivers? I cant remember which. You see there are different rules for different people. A Highway patrol or brain surgeon can work 16 hours straight so they can have a 3 day weekend but if you are 15 minutes over 11 hours in a truck they want from $250.00 to $1000.00 and shut you down for 10 hours. The Highway Patrol organization used to be about safety and now it is just about Money.

They are right about there being no quotas Now they are called public contacts.

I have driven for about 40 years and will give it up soon and wont have to put up with it all. Instead of fishing just 1 day a week it will be 4 or 5 days a week, then i will have to worry if i have to much fish in the frig and the game wardens catching me.

I have to get off this subject and call Jon at the bait shop and see if i can borrow the gray minkota i gave him for the wall It matches my age .

[mnray]

well stated,nothing but the truth!

[cliffy]

Quote:

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I thought there was a law that says 20 over is careless or reckless driving and they can take you right to jail, or is that just for truck drivers?

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From the 169. codes:

169.13 RECKLESS OR CARELESS DRIVING.

Subdivision 1. Reckless driving. (a) Any person who drives any vehicle in such a manner as

to indicate either a willful or a wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of

reckless driving and such reckless driving is a misdemeanor.

( A person shall not race any vehicle upon any street or highway of this state. Any person

who willfully compares or contests relative speeds by operating one or more vehicles is guilty of

racing, which constitutes reckless driving, whether or not the speed contested or compared is in

excess of the maximum speed prescribed by law.

Subd. 2. Careless driving. Any person who operates or halts any vehicle upon any street or

highway carelessly or heedlessly in disregard of the rights of others, or in a manner that endangers

or is likely to endanger any property or any person, including the driver or passengers of the

vehicle, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

I assume this would apply for passenger vehicles as well as semi-trucks. I am not sure if there is a "special" reckless or careless for truck drivers....I never understood all those rules and laws...and since I work mostly on city streets...its not something I run into a lot. Plus these are just misdemeanor crimes...not something we take people to jail for in my jurisdiction...just a ticket and sent on their way. I hope this helps.

Cliffy.

[Dahitman44]

Nice to have somebody that can explain these things.

Keep up the good work, just don't give DaHitman a ticket.

[Just2fish]

I've been out of the loop for awhile, but what an interesting topic, and of course I have to chime in. Isn't the speed limit on the MN side of I-94 only 70 anyway? She had the cruise set at 75? OK, so you went into the area speeding anyway. Believe me, I'm no saint, I have a lead foot at times.

Cliffy, isn't it interesting how many myths there are about speed traps and insurance and points and all that? Personally, I don't want anything to do with even seeking out the facts, therefore I hope I don't get a ticket, easier to obey than pay!

Hit-- if you got your hands on some juicy information and whomever the info was about asked you not to print it, even tho it was good copy and relatively harmless, what would you do? Would you leave the good parts out to "give the guy a break?"

We all make decisions in our jobs, and we all have to live with them at the end of the day.