Barry Bonds

[genegodawa]

As a Cub fan, I gotta throw "Sweet Swinging Billy Williams" into the mix....plus you gotta add that HOF guy from the Cardinals - his name escapes me - oh yeah, Musial.

[ozzie]

best pure swing is not even an issue....Griffey JR....Williams was a hitter and so is Ichiro but neither had or have pure swings...Williams worked and studied the swing and different aspects to hitting that it became a science but not a natural pure swing.....Ichiro is a great hitter but he has an ugly but very effective swing.......

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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....Ichiro is a great hitter but he has an ugly but very effective swing.......

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No kidding one of the worst swings in the league not sure what Windy was smoking when he wrote that.

I always liked Frank Thomas's game although he is about as close to Barry Bonds social misgivings as player good be.

Where do you guys stand on amphetamines or Speed "greenies" that practicly every major league player has or is taking.

Clearly from a DRUG standpoint the biggest problem in sports?????

I'm assuming thats OK if you like the player?

[blue_healer_guy]

Windy, I mean in recent times. The only time I have seen williams swing is on espn classics. Don't care for Ichiro at all. When I say I like Bond's swing, I try not to think if it was/wasn't affected with roids. I quess what I'm trying to say if I ran a hitting clinic, he would be my first visual I would show.

[genegodawa]

I'm gonna have to agree on Griffey Jr.

Can't argue with success, but Ichiro has a much better eye than swing.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Have any of you ever coached or played? I played very little but did quite a bit of coaching and I think Ichiro has one of the best pure swings in the game. His swing plane keeps his bat in the hitting zone longer than anybody I have seen. I would have to disagree with what you are saying about "Roid Man" (refusing to use his name) I think he has a great eye but like Griffey JR his bat is in the swing plane for a very short time and they both have a very long swing which ususally results in not hitting the ball. The only reason they have has success is their exceptional eye they have for making contact. I would take a team full of Ichiro swings and take my chances knowing that they would be making contact much more often than the "steriod swat". Not smoking anything here in the Windy, just plain ole baseball know how. Rod Carew also had the right idea when it came to a pure swing. Not a power swing, just a pure swing that makes contact with the ball.

Windy

[ozzie]

played alot of ball....watched alot more ball....and have done some coaching of ball.......your points might be slightly validated but they don't make the swing a pure swing....a pure swing is a natural smooth motion.....Ichiro's swing itself is not smooth and natural...put his motion of his body with the swing of the bat and it is a smooth colaboration but the swing itself is not good....also Ichiro gets alot of hits based on his speed....why would the bat need to be in the zone a long time if it takes the bat to meet the ball a fraction of a second to make contact.....You say you played the game a little....nothing against you but go out and try to duplicate some of their swings and you can feel how different these swings are...some feel natural and some feel forced....IMO to say Ichiro has a natural swing is like saying Julio Franco has a natural swing and there is nothing pure or natural in that swing!!!! I love this debate!!

[PierBridge]

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Ichiro has one of the best pure swings

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We were talking pure, sweet, smooth, effortless or good looking swing.

If your talking effective yes Itch's swing is effective but ugly....

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

OK Guys,

I had to go to the record book to validate my point and I think I have been vidicated. In my mind a pure swing is one that allows the bat the most time to make contact with the ball. A pure swing should result in more contacts with the ball, not power but contact. As a result, contact with the ball should result in more hits as a rule of nature and those players should have a higher batting avg as a result. Here are the career batting avgs. of those players being discussed:

Billy Williams .290

Ken Griffey Jr. .290

The "steriod jerk" .298

Rod Carew .328

Ichiro .332

Ted Williams .344

Again, I think I have to say that Carew, Ichiro and Williams have some of the best pure swings in baseball.

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Sorry Geno,

I forgot to add Mr. Musial to the debate since I did not want to load too many old timers in the debate. His lifetime is .331 so I would give you props for throwing him in as pure swing contender.

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Ozzie,

The longer a bat is horizontal in the swing plane the longer it has to make contact with a ball that is coming in horizontal. When you get the home run hitters who step in the bucket and take the huge home run swat, they are loading up and usually have an upper cut to their rip. The amount of time their bat is in the ball's contact plane, while powerful, is fairly short. Think of it like a golf club. When you slice your club face is not in the swing plane on a level square position which is why you slice or hook the ball. To hit it straight you want your club face to be in the swing plane for the longest time possible. Same with a baseball bat, if it is moving and horizontal in the swing zone for a longer period of time you have a greater chance of making contact with the ball.

And you guys thought I was just a dumb Sox fan!!! LOL

Windy

[ozzie]

again Ichiro's avg is based on his ability to make contact and his speed...SPEED being a big factor to his avg....do you have a number on how many infield hits he has in his career??? Ted Williams again was like a scientist with his approach to the plate.....I will say that Ichiro and Williams are 2 of the best contact hitters of all time without a question......even the greats of baseball have commented especially early in his career that Griffy Jr had/has one of the purist swings in baseball ever.....

[ozzie]

i hear ya Windy!! I just love debating things that no one can be "right"

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

OK Ozzie,

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? LOL

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Ozzie,

I hear what everybody is saying and I guess I look at the results from what somebody is doing. Griffey does have a sweet "power" swing, makes for some huge taters but his avg says that he is not making contact as many times as the others in the group. I would say the best pure free throw shooter in basketball would have to be Rick Barry and he shot underhand. Again, high percentage, ugly looking but pure motion, nothing compared to MJ or Bird but higher percentage.

Windy

[genegodawa]

Thanks for the props Windy.

I remove myself from this discussion as I don't really care anymore...nyuk, nyuk...but I will enjoy the debate amongst youze guyz.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Ozzie,

I hear what everybody is saying and I guess I look at the results from what somebody is doing. Griffey does have a sweet "power" swing, makes for some huge taters but his avg says that he is not making contact as many times as the others in the group. I would say the best pure free throw shooter in basketball would have to be Rick Barry and he shot underhand. Again, high percentage, ugly looking but pure motion, nothing compared to MJ or Bird but higher percentage.

Windy

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Agreed......

[ozzie]

the egg!!!! it just appeared and hatched into a chicken and there you have it!!!

[blue_healer_guy]

Ok windy, this may end this debate. Let's say your coaching a senior in high school, never played ball before. Are you gonna teach him to take 2 runnings steps to hit the pitch, or tell him to be balanced, stride, and rotate the hips.

[genegodawa]

and swing with his eyes closed while putting one foot in the bucket!

[mitch]

What about Joe Mauers swing? I think his is one of the best in baseball.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Ok windy, this may end this debate. Let's say your coaching a senior in high school, never played ball before. Are you gonna teach him to take 2 runnings steps to hit the pitch, or tell him to be balanced, stride, and rotate the hips.

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I'm guessing he'd teach that nonsense Ichiro does...

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

What, you guys never watched Happy Gilmore??? Sweet golf swing with the two step shuffle, LOL

Windy

[genegodawa]

"Step into it!"

I can still hear my Frosh coach yelling encouragement like that from the 3rd base coaches box - but that was our signal to bunt!

[blue_healer_guy]

Honest to God Windy, after my post earlier I knew you were gonna come back with Happy Gilmore!

[honker23]

Two undeniable facts regarding this issue. Bonds has a sweet swing, and he took steroids.

I haven't seen a contact percentage stat, so I don't care if a guy has a horizontal swing plane for 2 ms longer than Bonds if he's just hitting a dribbler to short. Bonds is technically a great hitter with a near perfect swing in my opinion.

Ichiro has good hands and speed, but not a great swing. By the way didn't Knoblach have a flat swing too.

I guess the big hurt never really impressed me much either.

On a side note, if we are talking hitting without A-rod, we're forgetting a pretty good ball player with the ability to hit any pitch in the zone to all parts of the park.

[goman]

you are all right he cheated. The record should be broken by someone who works hard and dosent take steriods

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

I will second that, Go Man!

Windy

[Coach Dog]

But guys, Barry said himself, "The record is not tainted at all. At all. Period." I laughed my butt off when he said this. If you looked in his eyes when he said this, I think he even tried not to laugh.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

A-Rod would be fine by me. You never ever hear his name mentioned in the same sentence as steroids.

You guy's are sadly mistaken if don't you think A-Roid has been on the Juice in his career

Well, Well what do we have here!