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catfishbait

Whats the laws?

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catfishbait

What are the laws for deer hunting on a frozen river,with private property on each side?

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Mark Christianson

Sounds like trouble anyway you look at it.

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Borch

I beleive that land above the high watermark is considered private. At any rate I would avoid walking down a frozen river hunting. Just too many bad things could happen besides the potential for tresspassing.

Deer aren't worth dieing for.

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catfishbait

I feel safe on the river as it was -18 this morning. The deer cross back and forth all over this river. We can fish on these rivers can't we hunt on them?

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Mark Christianson

Don't plan on pullin the trigger if the deer is on private land that you do not own or that you do not have permission to hunt on. Its one thing to retrieve a deer that crosses a property line, but don't be standing on the river and shoot at a deer that is 50 yds up on someone's private property.
Common sense needs to be used on this topic.

I gotta admit, this is one of the oddest questions I have seen in a while.

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catfishbait

Our river is wide here,100yds in spots,and there is spots you can shoot 500+ straight away. I"m using a muzzleloader,and able to shoot flat at 100yds. Any input is appreciated!

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Bogsucker

Catfishbait,

Maybe the question should be, is it ethical to hunt deer from a frozen river between two private properties? The seeming intent to hunt from said location says alot about your attitude.

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catfishbait

BOGSUCKER,
People hunt ducks and geese from the river!
Do you see a problem with that also? Is this an ethical hunting practice?

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BLACKJACK

catfishbait, you ask an interesting question. As someone stated, the highwater mark is the legal boundary. And your point about people legal hunting ducks on the river if valid. The difference that I see between duck and deer hunting is that most fo the shot ducks will land in the river or close to it while deer are bigger and tougher and the odds are they won't just drop on the river, you'll be going onto private land to retrieve them, causing conflicts with landowners, giving hunters a bad name. Think about the quality of your hunt, getting into a shouting match with an owner, is that what you want? And again, that gives all hunters a bad rap.

I know you're going to say that you plan on dropping the deer on the spot with your muzzleloader, but I know I've seen a lot of shot 'dead' deer run a 100 yards before they keel over. And wounded ones run even farther!

Don't do it. Getting a deer in the back of your truck is not the only purpose of deer hunting.

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catfishbait

I see the river as a piece of state land, like any other state land,is open to public hunting! There are hundreds of other hunters that hunt state land and wound deer and dont feel bad or worry about tracking them on to surrounding land? I guess i'm not seeing what the difference is here? Is the river not state land?

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can it be luck?

Catfish, people do float rivers for waterfowl. And yes, it is legal. Can you navigate rivers, frozen or open for hunting? YES. Others have stated issues of wounded deer, or deer that run even with a lethal shot. The chances are that the deer will run to land, which is private. Do you plan on only shooting the deer on the river surface? Can you be certain that the deer can be dropped on the spot with a head, neck or spine shot? That might be tough, if not impossible to do. Have you already made a choice about retrieval of deer that run on land? If yes. you've already made a choice to break the law. Do you think permission may be given to retrieve a shot deer? Ask the landowners, see if access would be given. However, if the owner doesn't allow hunters on his land, I doubht that permission would be given. The owner would view the deer as "his", comeing off his land. Deer are land dwellers, not water dwellers. Hunting waterfowl that live on rivers is different than hunting deer that cross rivers to get to LAND on the other side.....Sure, you can legaly hunt waterways. Can you be SURE that the deer are going to stay on the water? That's where the problem lies. To answer your question, yes......And NO.

------------------
http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

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SCCO9803

I guess my only response to this is, why in the heck would anybody think about attempting this. I agree with the comment on tying up the EMS services for you, because that is what is going to happen.

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Granny

I think this is an interesting topic and one that not too many people have questioned. And for those of you who choose to judge this person's ethics I think you should step back a few and look at the original question...."What are the laws"? I can think of many other circumstances that I feel are much more unethical than shooting a deer on the ice! I think Catfishbait makes some good points and brings up some good questions. How is this any different than hunting other "state" land?

If I am hunting on the edge of my property and a deer is heading off my property, I shouldn't shoot because then I have to go and get permision from the other land owner and worry about getting into a long discussion over it?

Would I be pissed if someone hunted on the river that runs through my parents land? Your dang right I would be, but thats not the question Catfishbait posted.

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Mark Christianson

OK
Lets answer his question.
Yes, its probably legal to hunt there.
Great, now he can stand on a frozen river, and push his luck with adjacent landowners.

Granny
You are correct. It was a simple question to start off, but look at his replies to the concerns of ethical hunters trying to help him see the light with the issues that may come if he chooses to hunt there.

Just because something is legal, doesn't mean ya load up and head out.
Hunting is not just stand there and shoot.
It can also encompass other issues.

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Bogsucker

From the regs.


"Rules of Thumb for Water Access and Recreational Use.
These are simple rules of thumb and are not intended to address all
water access and recreational use situations. If you have doubts about
whether you may be trespassing on private land, we recommend that you
ask the landowner for permission.
1.What is lawful access?
A stream or lake is lawfully accessible if there is a public access, or
if public land or a public road right-of-way abuts the surface of the
water, or if you have permission to cross private land to reach the
surface of the water.
2.What is recreational use?
Recreational use includes boating, swimming, fishing, hunting,
trapping, and similar activities. It includes walking in the water in
connection with such activities regardless of who owns the land
beneath the surface of the water.
2003 Minnesota Hunting Regulations
3.What waters are open to recreational use?
A stream or lake is open to recreational use over its entire surface
if it is capable of recreational use and if it is lawfully accessible.
Any water that will float a canoe is capable of recreational use, but
other waters may also qualify depending upon the circumstances."

Read the second sentence again.

[This message has been edited by Bogsucker (edited 12-12-2003).]

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can it be luck?

Absolutely right Granny. Catfishbait's question is legitimate. His ethics are being questioned, should they be? After all, if he shoots a deer that stays on the river, that would be legal. I guess the problems lie in "possibilities". The possibility that the deer runs on private land. As far as "tieing up" EMS services, I'd be the first one to help out someone in distress. After all, if kept within the framework of a legal hunt, what's wrong with that? It all goes back to possibilities, and weighing them out. If you can GUARANTEE a safe and legal hunt, go for it.

------------------
http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[This message has been edited by can it be luck? (edited 12-12-2003).]

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Bogsucker

Yes, his question is valid, however what will he have accomplished if he does indeed shoot a deer in the situation mentioned?

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Granny

Can it be luck,
Just for clarification, say Catfishbait decided to go on the river and he shoots a deer and it goes onto private property. Is this an "illegal" hunt? Or is it just the fact that it will probably go on to private land and thus makes it unethical?

Lets take away this ice and say a guy sits in a conoe to deer hunt. A deer walks across a shallow section in the river and the guy shoots it. Is this illegal or unethical?

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can it be luck?

Granny, whether it be ice or open water it's still the same. No differance. Ethical can be tough to answer, not knowing ALL there is to know. . I feel that if a person can legally engage in a hunt that GUARANTEES that no laws will be broken..Go for it. If you have doubts, and there's a STRONG POSSIBILITY that laws will be broken(trespass laws), then you need to take another look at what you're getting into.
To answer your question. It's neither illegal or unethical to shoot a deer standing in a shallow river. I've shot two running across a shallow river. grin.gif PS: I never questioned Catfishbaits ethics. smile.gif
------------------
http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[This message has been edited by can it be luck? (edited 12-12-2003).]

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Havin' Fun

Go ask the land owner for permission to hunt his land. That would take care of all the problems. State what you know, and just ask. You would be surprised at how many will say yes, especially this time of the year, even after saying no earlier in the year.

I would refrain, just because I'm one of those guys who has to ask for permission to hunt, and one more landowner who gets upset is one more landowner who will say "no".

Offer a case of beer or some beer sticks. That always gets em!!!

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can it be luck?

Let me also add this. If I'm hunting(legally on private or public land) and a deer I shoot runs onto private land, I WILL go and get that deer. Assuming I'm not standing on the property line or very close to it. I wont put myself in a position where the chances are HIGH that the deer will run to private land. However, if I'm tracking a hard hit deer, I will retrieve it. Ethical? You tell me.

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Granny

Can it be luck,
The ethics thing wasn't directed towards you at all.

Catfishbait,
Yes this hunt is probably legal, but as you can tell most people, including myself, don't think its a good idea due to many unsafe conditions.

I need a beer.

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can it be luck?

I think I'll join you! That's right, I dont drink. Maybe I'll make an exception today. smile.gif Granny, I didn't feel as though your statements were directed at me. It's all good! smile.gif

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Granny

Can it be luck,
I need to keep busy for the next 11 hours here, you going to be around your computer?

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Bogsucker

can it be luck,

The law does not determine ethics. Each hunter must assume his/her own personal code. I would say that if an animals movement is impeded in any way by: ice, deep snow, mud, water, etc... it would be unethical to shoot that animal. I also believe that hunting, in the situation that catfishbait described, is unethical. It certainly wouldn't promote good hunter/landowner relations.

Well catfishbait, please comment.

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