Question regarding 2 stroke oil

[DANR]

Sold my snowmobiles last fall. I have 2 gallons of Polaris VES Gold+. Is there any reason I can't run that oil in my 2000 Johnson 150 HP outboard?

Thanks for the help!

[Surface Tension]

 If it were the other way around I'd say not the best idea because the low temp and variable exhaust systems requirements for the Polaris.   RPMs being about the same but operating temps differ.  The outboard runs cooler.  Is this going to create build up?   I wouldn't worry about that. 

I would do it but don't hold be responsible for any damage.

[DANR]

Thanks!

[delcecchi]

Is the oil TCW?  Outboards want TCW (for water cooled engines).  You have a 10k+ dollar engine.  You probably wouldn't want to risk damage to use up $50 of oil....  At least without doing more research than asking us bozos. 

 

[Surface Tension]

 Hey yeah, thanks for help. 

Know when to butt out.

[papadarv]

9 hours ago, delcecchi said:

Is the oil TCW?  Outboards want TCW (for water cooled engines).  You have a 10k+ dollar engine.  You probably wouldn't want to risk damage to use up $50 of oil....  At least without doing more research than asking us bozos. 

 

Wow 10 grand+ for a 2000 Johnson 150. I have one of these, bring cash I deliver. All sales final.

[delcecchi]

6 hours ago, papadarv said:

Wow 10 grand+ for a 2000 Johnson 150. I have one of these, bring cash I deliver. All sales final.

OK, your 2000 Johnson 150 blows up.   You are sitting there with a  blown powerhead.  How much will it cost you to replace it or fix it?   Maybe 10k was a little high, make it 5k or 7k.  Point is oil is cheap, motors are expensive.   Why would you use a non-approved oil (if it is not TCW-3) just to save a few bucks?  

[papadarv]

2 hours ago, delcecchi said:

OK, your 2000 Johnson 150 blows up.   You are sitting there with a  blown powerhead.  How much will it cost you to replace it or fix it?   Maybe 10k was a little high, make it 5k or 7k.  Point is oil is cheap, motors are expensive.   Why would you use a non-approved oil (if it is not TCW-3) just to save a few bucks?  

Exact replacement low retail $1483.00, Average retail $1534.00. Book Value

[delcecchi]

Well then, might as well use non detergent 30 weight motor oil, like back in the 50's  If it blows up see what you can get cheap to replace it.  Your motor, your choice. 

[papadarv]

Don't disagree with your oil analysis, just trying to come up with another $8,500 to help with the replacement of my Van I totaled on Sat when I hit a Deer head on.

[delcecchi]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.  That really sux.

I did some searching and can't even find what spec that oil is.  I did see some stuff about low ash and ashless and how each is better for particular applications.   I think selling it and buying boat oil might be the best idea.  It sells for like 50 bucks a gallon which is way more than regular two stroke oil. That isn't a ficht or etech is it?

[papadarv]

Ashless" TCW3 vs. "Low Ash" JASO/ISO 2 stroke oil

Marine oil is TC-W3 certified. For years, Polaris used the TC-W3 certification oil in their engines. Other manufactures used the JASO-FD and ISO-EGD low ash certified oils (full synthetic oil). Polaris recently also went to the JASO-FD and ISO-EGD oils. Air cooled 2 stroke engines run at a much higher RPM and also run much hotter than Marine hence the need for the oil difference with better levels of lubricity and cleanliness in piston ring groove areas. Here is a bit of info on the oils.

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=128249

If I owned the oil with better lubricity that you have I would use it in my 18 year old outboard with a 50/50 mix of marine oil.

[delcecchi]

An interesting thread, convincing argument for not using outboard oil in a snowmobile.   I did see this reference down in the comments section with a link to citgo (link not found probably because citgo changed their pages over teh years)

Q: Is Supergard Sea and Snow 2-Cycle Engine Oil recommended for use in outboard engines?
A: No, Supergard Sea and Snow is not recommended for marine outboard engines. The low ash, synthetic blend Sea and Snow 2-cycle oil is primarily used in air cooled two-stroke engines like weed eaters, lawn mowers, snowmobiles and jet skies that do not require NMMA TC-W3 performance.

-------------------

Like I said, I looked for a while last night and couldn't find anyone talking about using the polaris oil in an outboard, or using snowmobile oil in and outboard for that matter.  But I could easily have not found the right info. 

I am sort of a "use what the manufacturer recommends" oriented guy.  

Oh, and making one last search, I found a comment that seemed appropriate, by some random dude, to the effect to not forget that outboards spend a lot of time at low rpm, idling or trolling, and that may impose requirements on the oil, whereas snowmobiles probably don't spend much time idling.  

Also found this link with an explanation of ashless vrs low-ash

http://www.sea-doo.net/the-late-great-oil-debate/2015/04/

 

That's about all I have, been interesting anyway. 

Edited April 30, 2016 by delcecchi

[RebelSS]

Big difference between 2 stroke oil for air-cooled and water-cooled engines. Any wrench knows that. Learned that long ago when I was rebuilding 2 strokers. DON'T do it. 

Water cooled two-cycle engine oils require higher levels of a heavy oil to prevent piston and cylinder wall scuffing. Because of their high average piston temperature, lighter oils evaporate too quickly from the piston cylinder contact area. The heavy base oil, which vaporizes at very high temperatures, resists evaporation and remains in place to provide lubrication to the piston and cylinder. Air cooled oil formulations must have much lower levels of the heavy base oil than water cooled engine oils. These oils require only a small amount of heavy oil to provide protection against piston scuffing and seizure at peak temperatures. High levels of heavy base oils in an oil formulated for air cooled engines can cause engine deposits. These deposits form as a result of incomplete burning of the heavy oil. The deposits can cause piston ring sticking and can eventually plug or disrupt the flow of the exhaust system, resulting in power loss and possible engine damage. Detergent additives should not be used in water cooled two-cycle oil formulations. When burned with the fuel, detergents produce an ash deposit in the cylinders. This ash deposit can possibly foul spark plugs., form exhaust port deposits which cause loss of power, and possibly create cylinder hot spots that can cause destructive pre-ignition. On the other hand, the only way to protect air cooled two-cycle engines against piston ring sticking at their high peak temperatures is to include some detergent additives in the oil formulation. Detergents provide high temperature deposit control not available from other additives used in the oil. However, in the air cooled engine, any ash deposits that could form from the detergents are dislodged by engine vibration and exhausted from the engine.

Edited April 30, 2016 by RebelSS

[DANR]

Thanks for all the input guys. Sounds to me like I better follow my first inclination and use the right oil. As PAPADARV said "oil is cheap, motors are expensive"

 

Thanks again

Dan

[SkunkedAgain]

You could try to sell the oil to someone with a sled...or you could give the oil to someone that has a Polaris. You'll never remember the money but you may remember how blown away someone was that you gave them some good oil they needed without any strings attached. My two cents.