Dock size rules

[250XB]

I posted this also on the outdoor discussion forum.

I read an interesting article in Star Tribune, if you go to their site type in big-dock in the search the article should come up. The title is DNR's big-docks rules makes waves. It seem that the rich people that live on the lakes are not happy with the new dock regulation and have hired lawyers to talk to the DNR. They think they should be able to have docks as big as they want. They had their lawyers meet with the DNR assistant commissioner Larry Kramka. I think the new rules that allow decks up to 170 square feet is to big and the DNR had to fight to keep it that small. Docks are an eye sore and are harmful to the lakes. I think that we should call the DNR to tell them to not allow bigger docks. The DNR need to hear from us too not just the lakeshore home owners. Call Larry Kramka and tell him that you support smaller docks.

[BezD40]

Do you have the number to call?

[farmer boy]

Smaller Docks?

I did not hear about that rule change.

Sounds like a good idea to me then you would not

have as many "RICH" bass fishermen in those expensive

bass boats bouncing those half ounce spinner baits off the docks

and boats on lifts.

Do you have a number that would be great.

Thanks

PS just thought I would put things into perspective.

Not everyone that live or owns lake shore is "RICH"

some may be and some are not as well as the fisherman some are and do have the fancy boats some don't.

Some do bounce those 1/2 ouncers off docks and boats some are very careful or they use jigs covered in soft plastic which are very gentle.

My point is we are all at the lake for a good reason to enjoy it so can we all just get along. There are always a few bad apples in every crowd just don't stereo type all of them.The same goes for fisherman.

Thanks my two cent

[Jaspernuts]

Sounds like farmer boy must have bought his house on the top of the current housing bust. I agree - many lake owners are not rich anymore and many are getting forclosed on. The neighbor at our familys lake home has had his house on the market for 2.5 years!

[farmer boy]

No we did not buy at "THE TOP OF THE MARKET"

But our house is for sale if your interested.

We are only selling to rebuild on the lake.

My point is not everyone on the lake is "Rich"

Some people have been there for a very very long time.

They maybe bought long before values rose much higher.

They are just common people who bought a long time ago.

They maybe could not even afford to buy at todays prices.

My other point is I am tired of the stereo typing and ripping on the lake owner some who love to fish or ski or boat or what ever as much as any one else who uses the lake.

The lakes are for everyone.

I could go on here and rip the dirty fisherman who leave there garbage on the lake but I know it is only a few who ruin it for the rest. I whould not go out and say all fisherman are slobs because they are not, some due leave things as they were when they came.

I just pickup the garbage and dispose of it.

Thanks

Farmer

[250XB]

farmer boy I know that not all lake home owners are not rich. I do not know if you read the article or not but am referring to the lake home owners that have enough money to hire a lawyer to represent them so they can build dock as big as they want. The lakes with some of the biggest dock problem are Minnetonka, Gull, and Whitefish chain, and for the most part those are ringed with multi million dollars houses. To me you have to be rich to afford one of those or just the taxes on them. As far as fishermen bouncing lures off someones dock if they do not like it take it out of the water and then there will be no problems, the home owner is putting their dock in public water so the fisherman has every right to fish the water underneath the dock.

[250XB]

A little trick for finding state employees work numbers go to the department of employee relations DOER site and click on the state directory. Larry Kramka 651-259-5033 I believe if one group gets to talk to him he should hear the other side also.

[farmer boy]

250 I have not read the article but I will thanks for the tip on that.

My thoughts on docks are yes they are on public water yes you can fish around them.

Damage to private property on public water is not ok

I would not think most fishermen would be too happy to have people bounce lures off the side of there boats where ever they are public or not.

I was thinking in some instances the docks are what attract the fish that is way they fish there. I see them skip by they area between most of the time.

I kind of enjoy watching them catch the fish heck I usually ask them how thinks are going or yeah a guy got a nice one hear yesterday on certain bait.

Most of them are friendly and most release the fish unless it is a tourny. Then they usually get released on the other side of the lake.

Once in a while you get an erogant one who thinks he owns the lake and he can do whatever he wants to on the public water as he pounds his spinnerbait off the side of my boat.

I ask can you be a little carefull he responds with Hey its public water I can do whatever I want.

I respond with Ok my kids love to skip rocks on this public water your new Ranger boat is on it must be ok if a few bounce off the side of your boat then.

That is when the owner of the boat asks his partner in the back to pipe down

I hope that you understand my point and if you don't I am ok to agree to disagree.

Thanks and enjoy the water it was meant for everyone

Farmer

[Team Otter]

250XB,

Please explain why larger docks are harmful to a lake. Thank you.

[250XB]

I copied this from the DNR web page:

Intensive shoreland development causes deterioration of a lake’s ecosystem. Dock installations and their associated uses

are factors in this deterioration. Studies of lakes in the Midwest show that docks and boatlifts may shade out important

aquatic plants and eliminate critical habitat where fish spawn, feed, grow, and find shelter from predators. Shoreline

views may also suffer when large dock systems are installed. Also, there is a growing concern about the private use of the

water surface if docks and associated structures extend too far, cover too much surface area, or span the entire owned

frontage.

[hawkeye43]

They are talking about 1000 plus sq ft docks.

[250XB]

No they are saying all docks have some impact that is why there has been regulation on dock sizes for decades even though it was not heavily enforced. The intent of the regulation was to keep the size of dock at a minimal size. Docks are for getting to navigable water and nothing more, but people always have to push the limits. Lakeshore homeowners have been given rights that no one else in the state gets. They get to put something on public property, try putting a deer stand on public property even if you own the land right next to it that is not going to fly. I personally have no problem with a dock like yours hawkeye that is what the intent of the regulations were.

[Bigeye30"]

250xb, I can see your really frustrated and persistant with this topic, that's great, everyone is able to voice there opinion and i'm glad you actually take the time to do so, but my thoughts on docks in the southern mn area don't really come into effect here, i have never really seen a dock that obstructs navigable waters on any of the lakes around here, I do think the lakes you mentioned may have an issue going on with them, Gull, Minnetonka and the Whitefish Chain, but really when I fish gull I don't fish the docks, I guess there's to much structure in that lake elsewhere, Minnetonka, you don't need to say anything more on that lake, I have been on that lake once, and well once was enough for me. Whitefish chain, never fished it.

My point is this, If your really interested in helping the lakes out, why not put all that energy into something that will have a greater effect, chemicals that are being sprayed and homeowners and lake associations wanting lakes that are weed free, you think docks are going to have a negative impact, theres other groups out there that would wipe a lake out of all vegetation if given the power. Then the fish really will have no habitat. At the top of this forumn is a great post, Chemicals and Plant Management, check it out.

[wooly1]

Bigeye,

It stands to reason if lakeshore owners are putting out over size docks they are not only affecting the lake and lake bottom/weed growth but also the shore line. They have more dock and toys to watch from their dwelling.

The issue is also the greater the dock size the greater the area surrounding the dock is denuded of vegetation for the kids, grandkids or toys.

It is like most laws need to be created for those that take it to the limits. Can I put a 10' by 10' platform at the end of my dock?

OK, how about a 20'x20' with a screen porch? What if I enclose the screen porch? Now its a guest house? Encroachment continues.

I think OUR Legislators and OUR DNR should enforce the law as it ws written.

Stop the nibble, nibble, nibble

My point is, Bigeye, this is just as worthy as the causes you stated. Many spokes to this wheel of lake degradation.

My .02

[Team Otter]

Good information. Thanks for sharing.

[katoguy]

Bigeye, I think 250XB may be just a tad closer to all the DNR issues than you know.

Thanks for sharing, 250XB.

[Team Otter]

Yeah, like I said, I simply didn't know and wanted him to explain only because I know he has his finger on the pulse.

Just when I thought I was getting my arms around chemical treatment now it's docks. What's next? Ha!

[hawkeye43]

They may put a time limit on how many hours we can fish a day!

[Team Otter]

As long as it's 24, we should be fine.