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theoilman

2004-05 Ford 5.4 in F150, and more - Ford's new "better idea."

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theoilman    0
theoilman

Anyone own a 2004-05 Ford 5.4L in F150, Expedition or Navigator? Had to have a tune-up done?

Ford has come up with a new "better idea." A lot of shops that I call on refuse to do a tune up on these vehicles - they send them back to the dealer with the nightmare of the potential problems.

What has Ford done? In these applications they are using a special shielded electrode spark plug that has a nasty habit of breaking in the head. Ford has now even designed a special tool that cuts into the broken shield and makes it so it can be removed - sometimes. The bottom line - about 10% of the time a tune-up means removing the head to get the broken parts out of the cylinder. (And if you are really lucky with a broken one on both sides, both heads.)

Anyone have access to the AllData shop data-base - check it out!

No, I don't own one. But if I did and found out about this, I would be tempted to dump the vehicle before doing a tune-up.

airjer, what are your thoughts on this?

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DEADhead    0
DEADhead

I had to change a coil on my expedition about two months ago, and it was sucky. tough to get at anything with the EGR and vacuum hoses, and the fuel rail in the way. Felt like I was always going to break something off wrenching in there. Good thing you didn't tell me about this earlier otherwise I would have been too paranoid to do the job myself. Of course now I don't have to worry about it since I traded it in for a new 07 F150 grin.gif.

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Jeremy airjer W    21
Jeremy airjer W

As far as I know this is an issue with the spark plug manufacturer, not the vehicle manufacturer. Whether or not this will be another battle of you told us to make this with this spec and thats what we did, VS. you must have done something wrong or lacked quality control while manufacturing said product will remain to be seen.

If 4wanderingeyes sees this he will probably chime in, as we have touched on this subject a few months ago.

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Shack    16
Shack

As I was leaving the Ford dealership I worked at 9 months ago, this issue was starting in full force. I knew of one repair going on my last week that involved removing cly. head. I also know the service field rep. had been out from Ford and was over seeing repairs. I think it was Ed, but I have heard since then he has retired.

I stay in close contact with one of the writers from there and will talk with him in next couple of days to get a low down.

4wondering I am sure will know more, since he is in the trenches.

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Scott K    28
Scott K

I get calls about these all the time, shops are just way to eager to pull the heads off of them because of broken plugs. Ford has made a really fancy tool that has pulled out almost every one that was broken that I have encountered in our shop, or the local shops that I refered the tool to. I agree if you do a tune up on 3 04-05 ford trucks, you will end up using that tool atleast once. I will do every thing in my power to avoid pulling the heads off of these 3 valve engines, and I havent had to yet. Although I have had a few towed in from other shops with the heads off, and wanted us to finish the job for them.

The only time you would need to pull the head off for a broken plug is if a chunk drops into the cylender, and you cant get it out of there.

As for the plugs breaking Airjer is right it is a finger pointing game with whos fault it is. And I do agree why change what has worked for many years? But if I was going to gripe about stupid things ford did, this wouldnt even make it in the top 50 smirk.gif

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Jeremy airjer W    21
Jeremy airjer W

Quote:

But if I was going to gripe about stupid things ford did, this wouldnt even make it in the top 50
smirk.gif


I'm thinking this would barely make the top 100 blush.gif

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PierBridge    0
PierBridge

I believe there is a class action lawsuit in the works on this one and rightfully so.

Sorry sir your spark plug blew out that will be a couple grand to fix it. This definitly makes the top 10.

So this special tool you talk of allows you to get to the plug pull it and then you use heili coil and hope it holds?

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Scott K    28
Scott K

pier, 2 different concerns here. ford went from one extreme to the other. Pre 04 plugs came out on there own (more so pre 01), 04-05 you cant get them out. They dont blow out, they break off during removal or replacement.

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Scott K    28
Scott K

As for the spark plugs that blew out, I have heli coiled alot of them, I have had 1 blow out. Ford has came up with a better fix then the traditional heli coil repair, which I havent seen any blow out after that. And this is only a repair for non warranty issues, under warranty ford buys the new head.

ISSUE:

Some 1997-2008 vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 2V, 5.4L "2V" , or 6.8L 2V engine and aluminum cylinder heads may experience a spark plug port with stripped or missing threads.

ACTION:

Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition for non warrantable repairs.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Ford Motor Company now authorizes LOCK-N-STITCH aluminum insert and tool kit as a proper repair procedure.

Follow the procedure included in the tool kit for using the tools and inserts. Tool kits and inserts can be ordered from Rotunda by calling 1-800 xxxxxxxxx). Choose option two (2), part number 302-00001.

NOTE: FORD MOTOR COMPANY HAS DETERMINED THAT REPAIRS MADE WITH THESE ALUMINUM INSERTS AND LOCK-N-STITCH TOOLS DO NOT AFFECT THE HEAT TRANSFER FUNCTION BETWEEN THE SPARK PLUG AND THE CYLINDER HEAD.

NOTE: THIS PROCEDURE IS NOT AUTHORIZED AS A FORD WARRANTY REPAIR. FOR VEHICLES WITHIN WARRANTY, REPLACEMENT OF THE CYLINDER HEAD IS RECOMMENDED.

NOTE: THIS IS THE ONLY FORD AUTHORIZED PROCEDURE FOR SPARK PLUG THREAD REPAIRS.

NOTE: THIS PROCEDURE IS AUTHORIZED FOR ESP REPAIRS AND RETAIL REPAIRS.

Note " 2 valve engines "

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PierBridge    0
PierBridge

Thanks 4wanderingeyes.

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aczr2k    1
aczr2k

Lot of talk about this on the ford message boards. I'm sitting at 68k on my 05 and it will be gone before spring.

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dakotakid31    0
dakotakid31

my '99 had the head gasket go-new engine installed under warrenty. blew the spark plug out of that engine 40,000 miles later-called ford from the dealer and they told me it was the first they heard of that....i explained to them that i was in the dealership where they told me the had 3 in there right know with the same thing(one guy was obviously one of them-he was going bazerk!!) ford basically said oh well not our problem. the dealership in ER did help out-they installed the warrenty engine so they gave me a decent amount off,still cost alot!! "BUILT FORD TUFF", "LIKE A ROCK",AND "RAM TUFF"- they should all shut up and build a real truck like they used too and back up what they say. dont care what anyone says-they all have there problems but for the price of em getting over 100k with no problem shouldnt be an issue.

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Shack    16
Shack

dakotakid31

How long ago did this happen.

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Scott K    28
Scott K

The 99-00 models did have problems with the right head gaskets leaking oil exterally, the head gaskets they used at the time couldnt seal them, block and head needed to be perfectly straight, less then .002 warped. So until ford made a better headgasket, you almost always got a comeback leak if you only replaced the gasket, and or head. So us at the dealer would start replacing ford engine, because the comebacks were very high risk on just gaskets or heads. They have updated the gaskets in 01.

Since your truck was a 99, and they put a different engine in it, it most likely was 2000 engine, which the 00 had problems blowing out spark plugs, 99 did not.

One thing people need to remember is that ford is the one who pays and decides what is covered under warranty, not the dealer, ford is the one who pays it, not the dealer. But the dealer does have some say in it, if your not a regular customer dont count on anything after 36k, if your there for all maint, you can get help up to 5yr 75k. But the dealer has to ask ford, then its fords final decision. And as I said, if you just come in to complain about warranty stuff, dont count on anything over 36k!

You need to remember at 36k your warranty is done! Anything over that is a bonus! I realize they should last longer, and most do, but that doesnt mean they have to, or they need to pay for it, thats why the warranty expires at 36, not 100k.

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Shack    16
Shack

I had a new eng. thrown in my 99 5.4L at 39,000 under an ESP contract the previous owner had. It was replaced for the infamous right rear leaking head. I never thought of it as a new model eng… I guess it would have to be.

Yes, there are programs dealships have threw Ford to get major repairs covered after warranty has expired. They used to have a P01 or P07 program that would get you 2 major covered repairs up to a 100,000k lock stock and barrel and the other covered your repairs (minus 10% of repair cost), but you got a complementary power train warranty after the repair up to 75,000 or 80,000k. They have since dropped these programs and only have a P05 I believe (cut backs in last year or so). The kicker is you get 2 major repairs covered up to 75,000k, but you have to pay a portion of the repair. The reason dealers will not help out some and help others is because the service department pays a portion of that repair also. So a service manger will look at maintenance history, repair history, where you bought it and may ask if you plan on buying at his dealer in future. If you do not fit the bill, why should that service manger pull money out of his pocket to fix your major repair concern, verses making customer pay for a large dollar non warranty repair and make a profit in the end. In the end, it all comes down to how you treat them and what kind of mood the manger is in. For a loyal customer, the answer is almost always yes and sometime if there is a history behind the failure, dealer will pay for a loyal customer portion of the repair. Second owners can get coverage also, but it will depend on your loyalty to that dealership. This is a major key factor.

Many, many loops holes.

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Bassboy1645    0
Bassboy1645

Man...I say bring back the 91' ford f150s! Those things are bullet proof!!!! lol im trying to sell mine only cuz its a gas hog and 2wd but im gonna miss it!!!!

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PierBridge    0
PierBridge

How much?...

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dakotakid31    0
dakotakid31

had the engine replaced in 2000 the head in 2003. and what kind of truck has un-greasable ball joints!!!

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redtrucks    0
redtrucks

I have a 01 F150 with 75,000 miles and this past spring I had a coilpack(COP)sporadically causing a miss fire at 45 mph. I researched the sparkplug blowing out issue and talked to my local dealer. They told me that most of the issues with the plugs blowing out were caused by an earlier version plug that has half of the thread as the newer designed plug. I decided to replace the plugs myself. I replaced the plugs and COP's and found that my F150 had the newer style plug. All of the horror stories that I read about changing the plugs and coil packs seemed to be over exaggerated. With the proper tools I was able to remove and reinstall the plugs and COP's in two hours.

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Shack    16
Shack

red trucks,

You are right. Most time when plug blows out, it is at 120,00 -150,000 miles on eng., with orig. plugs still in it. Once you install longer shank updated plug, you are good to go. Now to COP. These will go when they want. Some go at 30,000, 50,000 or 100,000. Others never fail. Its a crap shoot with those.

Doing it your self is a very self gratifying why to save money. Good for you.

Hey Pier,

You asking that is kind of like a person looking for a date at a funeral. Its just wrong. Just B.S.ing ya. LOL.

Good model year.

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Shack    16
Shack

dakotakid31,

Most any type of Veh. on the road now a days.

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Jeremy airjer W    21
Jeremy airjer W

Quote:

Now to COP. These will go when they want. Some go at 30,000, 50,000 or 100,000. Others never fail. Its a crap shoot with those.


I was lucky enough to do the #8 coil last night on an expedition with 124k. #4, #6, and #7 had already been done along with a used motor a couple years back. smile.gif

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Scott K    28
Scott K

Coil packs on the 97- 03 engines go out alot, they do not like water! I have an 02 f150, I carry a spare coil pack in my truck, never needed to use it , 80k on it. If you have the correct tools, and have done these before, you can replace all 8 plugs in an hour easily.

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Jeremy airjer W    21
Jeremy airjer W

Quote:

I carry a spare coil pack in my truck


I keep spare input and output speed sensors for the town and country! (I grab all the old ones off the transmissions we do) Sure enough I had an output go out in Cloquet on a Saturday.

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