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Rippinlip

When does it stop?

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Rippinlip

I decided not to hunt tonight and just drive around and visit with some land owners I have permission to hunt on thier land.

After visiting with the first couple I really almost started to get frustrated, understand I DO NOT own my own land and this is all permission hunting land, but I will say none of these spots are over 10 acres and many of them are alot smaller.

Point I am trying to get to is: When is money gonna start meaning less than a good hand shake and friendship?

Some of these small tracks are woodlots and brushy fencelines that I have been Deer hunting for multiple years and alot I have acquired by helping out in the summer some, putting in a fence, re-roofing a small shed, etc. and today to find out I have been ousted due to a payment from another hunter. Sorry to rant, just a little upset.

Is this becoming more of a THING, or is this more of the exception?

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harvey lee

Its to bad but I really believe that the day will come when one will need to own their own hunting land or will need to have a very good friend. The other option is state land.

With all the competition for hunting ground and the better stuff for sure, people that cannot afford to purchase land are going to be willing to pay a lease to have it as their own.

Right or wrong I dont know but I do believe that average Joe is going to start to feel the squeeze in his pocketbook.

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Kyle

I totally understand your frustration. I have secured many hunting spots over the years, thinking I am friends with the land owner after a while. I have even done some pretty big jobs just to help them out, and thats above and beyond work I already did to get hunting permission. Then, the next year I get bought out. Half the time I never even see the people that bought me out, on the land hunting it. It totally sucks. Makes me frustrated with humans in general. I would never do that to someone.

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maros91

Money talks; good deeds, and hard work take a hike I guess. frown.gif I also have a couple of tracts that I gained permission on and have not had this problem yet. I can see it coming though. Hunting is getting to be an expensive hobby. Now it looks like we have to lease small acreage just to hunt a handful of times a month. It makes the small guy want to find a different hobby. frown.gif

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BRULEDRIFTER

This paradigm will add to the demise of the sport much faster then the Anti's!

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Mark Christianson

I have access to a farm of 1000 acres for turkey, duck and some deer hunting.

In the last 5 years, its gone from my family hunting it primarily for waterfowl and turkeys, to now a miriad of others gaining permission with open pocket books. I still have access, but now almost feel obligated that I should also "pay my way" like these others have done.

Really sux when its private land and I dont even know if someone might be hunting a spot that I was planning on going to.........

Money talks, and you know the rest. frown.gif

Its not going to get any easier as the years go by. More and more people, same amount of land we are all fighting for.

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Gissert

Escalating property taxes and repeated school referendums add to the pressure for some landowners to look for fees.

I still have a handshake agreement for the land I hunt, but I know how much their tax bill has gone up as I live in the same district.

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Slow Jigger

I hunt on land of a guy I used to work with. I have offered money, venison, and to help out. He has said no to all payments. I still get him gift certs so he can go out to dinner from time to time. He said I didn’t have to do that I said I wanted to thank him for his opportunity he has given me. He gives me deer reports and we talk from time to time about things.

That being said I am worried about losing this to big $$ but I think he would ask me first if he was thinking that way.

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archerystud

When I began bowhunting about 25 years ago I had my pick of properties to hunt, not anymore.

I was fortunate to have my dad by some good ground to hunt on for $200/acre back in the 80's. We got another good deal on a foreclosure and I pay the taxes on that. It's 120 acres and this year I'll pay $1000 in taxes on it. That's a good chunk of change in my book or should I say out of my pocketbook.

I wonder how much a farmer with 1000 acres is paying on land which is zoned agricultural? It's sad but if you put yourself in the other persons shoes you can see why they might want to recoup some of the tax dollars.

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Piker

A couple of these latter posts are exactly why we are seeing this trend.

A few years a go a farmer had a piece of land with a little bit of woods, a little water, and some tillable. The tillable was the only land of any real value and was taxed as such.

Now the little bit of woods and water is worth more than the tillable land and is taxes are higher. So essentially, the farmer is paying higher taxes for land that is of little value. It only makes sense that the farmer would try and recoupe some of that money from the people that are driving that cost up, the hunters.

The solution is common sense assessments. If the land is zoned as agriculture any woods and wetland should be assessed as garbage land, in terms of a farmer paying taxes on it.

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DonBo

Montana has a great idea going. A bit of every non-resident license goes toward private land access. Block Management is what they call it. The landowner gets payment for hunter days afield. The state even takes over the liability of any damage done or injury to hunters.

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Scott M

I like the block management system, its similar to the easements in place with property owners on trout streams in SE MN. The only drawback is those annual payments are just that, temporary. They ensure nothing long term. Still, I would like to see more done about open access. This past weekend the property next to my family's cabin owned by Boundary Logging Company was advertising exclusive hunting rental rights. The Potlatch, Blandin, and Boundary big pieces of forest land are all going up for rental hunting, and private land is leading the way.

Thank goodness I have found a few private folks that will let me on, and I let them know how thankful I am with thank you's, Christmas cards, some goodies baked by my wife...

Just keep trying. I've been turned down by ten private people for every one that lets me on. And put some pressure on your representatives for more open hunting initiatives. Minnesota has a lot of public land and we can always use more.

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harvey lee

da chise31 is right. keep asking as there are people out there that will let you hunt for free. It may be getting more diffucult but it can still happen.

I learned years ago for deer hunting to ask in the spring. Many will wait until a month befgore the season and then the ones that will let you hunt are full.

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HateHumminbird

It's a difficult situation that I'm on both sides of. My father farms a good chunk of land near the home place that I hunt on, but I also ask quite a bit of permission in the surrounding areas. In addition to that, I own a 40 which is primarily wooded, but has about 10 acres ag. land. Having this ag. land attached cuts me a break for the rest of it in our county, but you can hardly call almost $1500k a year a break.

I will say that nothing tweaks a farmer (or myself) worse than "friends" who show up like clock-work around hunting season or slightly before to come hunting. Sometimes they'll even come help you throw bales or unload corn for a day. In return, they expect unfettered access at their time of choosing, for multiple game species, at different times of the year.....they bring friends and typically overlook common courtesies because they're "friends." No, not everyone is like this, but it's a trend I see too often. They're "friends" when it's convenient for them, but you can set a watch by when they'll be showing up at your door.

Farmers aren't stupid, they're realists like few others. They can sniff-out being used, and for their own livelihood's sake, need to make decisions sometimes based on the pocketbook. Can you blame them? A one-time payment with a contract that absolves them from fault, lays out both parties' responsibilities, and money-in hand.....sounds tough to beat. We make the same decisions everyday. Walmart vs. local hardware store, Wells Fargo vs. hometown bank, etc., etc., etc.

I will say I'm not bashing anyone, or saying that anyone here has participated in this behavior; I'm only stating what's happened in our situation.

We've heard it before....."hey, I thought we were pals?" A farmer doesn't need those kind of friends. Rethink these relationships as their taxes and inputs go up at a pace higher than the price of corn and soybeans.

Some suggestions I have are to make a deal. These are businessmen dressed in jeans and a seed cap.

-Bank hours with a farmer relative to a wage/hr. that you both agree upon. When he's approached by someone wanting to lease it, he'll have how much he either owes you in labor, or a trade in terms of work for hunting. Rather than cut you a check, he'll let you hunt more times than not.

-Be on call. If he has your cell and isn't afraid to use it, you're an asset. Primarily if you can come to the rescue when he needs a hand and no one else is there.

-Spend more time with him than just during hunting season. If you really want to be his friend, be his friend. If you don't, then just call it what it is.

-Christmas cards, gift certificates, etc.....all these things help.

This sounds like a lot of work, and it is. You're actively maintaining a relationship, like we all do, everyday. Just because it used to only cost X$, doesn't mean it'll stay that cheap for long; and be prepared to pay exactly what it's worth to you. We're all programed to pay as little for whatever we get as possible, and there's nothing wrong with it, and nothing the matter with trying to strike a bargain. The trick is to understand that it goes both ways.

Joel

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DonBo

WOW jnelson, nice vent. But you are right on the money. We need to remember our landowners the rest of the year as well. If you are not willing to pay for access, don't take it personal when someone else is hunting your spot.

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Kyle

Nice post Joel,

I can see your point, and it is very valid. The only thing I dont agree with, and you actually didnt say this someone else did, but it doesnt make sense to say that farmers are now charging people to hunt because they pay higher taxes. Well what if hunters start deciding that they dont want to pay, or the price is too high and there isnt enough security in that that land will be there for them next season? The wage farmers are getting from hunters now is not a set income that will always be there. So how can they rely on that because of higher taxes? They still own the land, and if no one wants to pay, then the land owner still has to pay those taxes regarless. I understand every little bit back in the checkbook helps, but to me it sounds like a poor way of doing your finances. I personally wouldnt count on a variable source of income like that.

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harvey lee

Great post Joel. I know with the land in ND that I personally oversee and allow others to hunt that some are very grateful and others will use one to death.

I think what some dont understnad is that so many will take advantage of you. My father use to always say yes to almost everyone and then they broke every rule. After a few years he just said no to all. I could never understand this no to everyone.

Now, years later I am dealing with all the hunters who wood like to hunt and yes I do say yes and expect nothing in return but for all who have permission to just follow some simple rule. One would be suprised just how many will not do that and the percentage is rather high.

For the last few years I now am getting very picky just who I will let hunt this property. One does get sick of getting ran over all the time. Its sad but it is true.

Plain and simple, when I give permission for one to hunt, they will follow all rules to a T or they will be gone. It has now gotten to the point where I'm starting to feel the way my father did and figure its just easier to say no but I still have faith in some and will continue to do so.

As far as pay hunting goes, I know that the neighbor gets $1,500.00 per season to hunt. I know thats nuts but he gets it. In no way would I ever think of doing this to a sportsman but thats just me.

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HateHumminbird

Vent....yeah.....maybe more like a rant smile.gif I'll settle down a bit.

I'd like to add that we do not charge to let people deer and turkey hunt on our land. While they may be few and far between, there is a select group of hunters that value the experience enough to maintain the relationship.

I'll agree with you hunter4life, not a reliable source of income, but then again, nothing in farming is reliable. Futures fluctuate daily, so do your inputs. When something breaks, you can be talking in the thousands of dollars, sometimes tens of thousands, rather than hundreds. Risk is an inherent part of the job.

Rather than throwing a pity party for a very rewarding profession, I mean only to offer another perspective.

Joel

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snapcrackpop

This is the biggest reason every hunter should belong to Pheasants Forever or MNDeer Hunters, etc. I know PF will not turn down any "good piece of property". This will secure hunting areas for our kids.

We need more WMAs and to make existing WMAs bigger.

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Kyle

Its about just secureing "some" hunting areas the sake of saving some darn habitat. I know lots of people that just dont hunt because of the land availability problem. I dont have children yet, and I know we have to think for the future generations, but what about us right now? I feel jipped as a hunter because of all the great fishing and hunting stories my father and grandfather have told me. According to them, hunting and fishing is nothing like it used to be way back in the day. Im sure my my mentality will change when I become a dad, and I know this is the whole point for us saving habitat for our children, but I sure wish my dad and grandpa would have done more for my generation.

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harvey lee

I may not be as old as your father but I will stand by this, I have hunted and fished for over 40 years and still today have great fishing and hunting. Yes, I may travel a little farther away from home but I still do very well. In the past 5 years I have taken the majority of the biggest fish I have caught and the size of my deer is preety darn good every year.

No complaints from me as I'm having the time of my life.

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Stratosman

Yeah but we're not all retired like some people. tongue.gif

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harvey lee

Retired. Seems like I'm working on FM stuff 8 hours a day and 7 days a week. I just go.

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Rippinlip

Thanks for all the replies, I understand some of the responses as far as people trying to recoupe some of the expenses that is encountered by owning land, but that is exactly what I was doing when I threw in a helping hand in the summer and previous years by helping out.

Should I have billed them so I could recoupe my work I did for them?

I guess I am not that kind of person to be doing that, I was brought up with the meaning to help when you can and that a hand shake means alot, guess times are a changing.

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HateHumminbird

Rippin':

Sounds like you got didn't get a fair deal, I agree. And I think a handshake does mean alot in the right context, but there are lots of folks out there shaking hands and being disingenuine about it. I wouldn't drop a bill or hang it over their heads, but getting to know them through repeated visits and working out deals is a good way to go about it.

Maybe the guy had a bad year and really needed the money; if he's a good guy he'll probably be more embarassed about it than ever. If not, then maybe your hunting days on his property were numbered anyway?

It's all about treating people right, saying what you mean, and meaning what you say. You'll end up finding one or more landowners who are good guys and just make sure to keep up that relationship.....you'll be good to go. Good luck!

Joel

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      The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources is accepting public comments on an environmental assessment worksheet (EAW) prepared for the Wright Bog Horticultural Peat project in Carlton County, about 8 miles west of Cromwell.  Premier Horticulture, Inc. proposes to develop approximately 316 acres of the Wright Bog in Carlton County for horticultural peat extraction. The proposed site would be cleared and ditched, with drained water discharged into Little Tamarack River. Sphagnum moss peat would be collected using the milled peat vacuum harvesting method. The agency will take comments during a 30-day public review period ending at 4:30 p.m. Jan. 10. A copy of the EAW is available online on the project page.  A hard copy may be requested by calling 651-259-5126. The EAW is available for public review at: DNR library, 500 Lafayette Road, St. Paul. DNR northeast regional office, 1201 East Highway 2, Grand Rapids. Minneapolis Central Library, Government Documents, 2nd Floor, 300 Nicollet Mall. Duluth Public Library, 520 West Superior Street, Duluth. Carlton Public Library, 213 Chestnut Avenue, Carlton. McGregor Public Library, Center Avenue and Second Street, McGregor. The EAW notice will be published in the Dec. 11 EQB Monitor. Written comments must be submitted no later than 4:30 p.m. Wednesday, Jan. 10, to the attention of Bill Johnson, EAW project manager, Environmental Policy and Review Unit, Ecological and Water Resources Division, DNR, 500 Lafayette Road, St. Paul, MN 55155-4025. Electronic or email comments may be sent to environmentalrev.dnr@state.mn.us with “Wright Bog” in the subject line. If submitting comments electronically, include name and mailing address. Written comments may also be sent by fax to 651-296-1811. Names and addresses will be published as part of the EAW record. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      A walleye stamp can be a gift for an angler that keeps giving, because stamp sales help the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources provide more places to fish for walleye by stocking walleye into lakes where there would be none. “Anyone can buy a walleye stamp any time of the year, even if they don’t have a fishing license,” said Neil Vanderbosch, DNR fisheries program consultant. “The collectible stamp is based on art chosen in our annual stamp contest.” Funds from walleye stamps go toward the cost of purchasing walleye from private fish farms for stocking into lakes. A walleye stamp is not required to fish for or keep walleye. There are several ways to purchase a walleye stamp. Anyone can go to a license agent and purchase a pictorial walleye stamp for $5.75, which is mailed to the buyer. Copies are on hand for purchase from the DNR License Center at 500 Lafayette Road in St. Paul. The stamps can be purchased online at mndnr.gov/buyalicense or by phone by calling 888-665-4236. Alternatively, a form can be downloaded from mndnr.gov/stamps and returned to the DNR to have the stamp mailed. Anglers with a fishing license can purchase the walleye stamp validation for $5, and for an extra 75 cents can have the pictorial stamp mailed to them. “True, everybody has to buy their own stamp, but there’s nothing stopping a person from giving away the collectible as a gift,” Vanderbosch said. “It could make a statement about how you helped improve an angler’s opportunity to catch walleye.” The overall walleye stocking effort ramps up each year in April when fisheries staff collect walleye eggs, fertilize them and transport the eggs to fish hatcheries around Minnesota. The eggs spend two to three weeks incubating before hatching into fry that are soon released – two thirds into lakes and one third into rearing ponds. The fish in rearing ponds grow into 4- to 6-inch fingerlings that are stocked into lakes in the fall. In addition to raising and stocking walleye, the DNR also buys walleye fingerlings from private producers to be stocked into lakes, and walleye stamp sales help pay for these fish. Since 2009, funds from the walleye stamp have purchased over 40,000 pounds of walleye fingerlings that have been stocked in the fall, all over the state. Walleye are stocked in lakes that don’t have naturally reproducing walleye populations. Anglers catch the lion’s share of walleye from waters where the fish reproduce naturally – about 260 larger walleye lakes and in large rivers. Because of stocking, walleye can be found in an additional 1,050 Minnesota lakes spread throughout the state. More information about habitat stamps can be found at mndnr.gov/stamps. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      The deadline for firearms wild turkey hunters to apply for early season spring hunting permits is Friday, Jan. 26, according to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. The spring season, which runs from Wednesday, April 18, to Thursday, May 31, is divided into six time periods. Only people age 18 and older who want to hunt using a firearm during the first two time periods (A or B) need to apply for a spring turkey permit. Permits for the remaining time periods (C-F) can be purchased over-the-counter. Archery and youth turkey hunters can hunt the entire season without applying for the lottery. Permits for the last four time periods and youth licenses are sold starting March 1. Surplus adult licenses from the first two time periods, if available, are sold starting around mid-March. People applying for permit area 511, the Carlos Avery State Wildlife Management Area, are advised that the sanctuary portion of the WMA will be closed to turkey hunting except for the special hunt for hunters with disabilities. For turkey hunting, a person may only use shotguns 20 gauge or larger, including muzzleloading shotguns. Only fine shot size No. 4 and smaller diameter may be used, and red dot scopes and range finders are legal. Visit mndnr.gov/hunting/turkey for more information about turkey hunting. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      The commissioner of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources has appointed 11 Minnesotans to three-year terms on citizen oversight committees that monitor the agency’s fish and wildlife spending.  The appointees are responsible for reviewing the DNR’s annual Game and Fish Fund report in detail and, following discussions with agency leaders and others, prepare reports on their findings. Appointed to the Wildlife Oversight Committee are Garry Hooghkirk, Duluth; Amanda Leabo, Fergus Falls; Mark Popovich, Welch; John Schnedler, Richfield; and Martha Taggett, Golden Valley. Appointed to the Fisheries Oversight Committee are Karl Anderson, Greenbush; Jess Edberg, Ely; Nicole Hertel, Shoreview; Benjamin Kohn, Hudson; Mark Owens, Austin; and Craig Pagel, Duluth. The new appointees join other members whose terms are continuing. The committees will resume work after the mid-December publication of the DNR’s Game and Fish Fund report for fiscal year 2017. “We look forward to working with these citizens,” said Dave Schad, DNR deputy commissioner. “The appointments continue our commitment to share detailed budget information, bring new participants into the oversight process and ensure revenue generated by hunting and fishing license sales is used appropriately.” The Fisheries and Wildlife oversight committees continue a citizen oversight function first created in 1994. Sixty people applied for oversight committee positions this time. Factors in choosing the new appointees included geographic distribution, demographic diversity and a mix of interests. In the weeks ahead, committee chairs and four members will be selected by each committee to serve on an umbrella Budgetary Oversight Committee chaired by another appointee, John Lenczewski. The committee will develop an overall report on expenditures for game and fish activities. Those recommendations will be delivered to the DNR commissioner and legislative committees with jurisdiction over natural resources financing for further consideration. Minnesota’s Game and Fish Fund is the fiscal foundation for much of the state’s core natural resource management functions. About $110 million a year is deposited into this fund from hunting and fishing license sales, a sales tax on lottery tickets, and other sources of revenue including a reimbursement based on a federal excise tax on certain hunting, fishing and boating equipment. Past DNR Game and Fish Fund expenditure reports and citizen oversight committee reports are also available at mndnr.gov/gamefishoversight. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.
    • Rick
      Conservation grants awarded by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources will help restore, enhance and protect habitat throughout the state.  This latest round of 73 conservation grants is funded by the agency’s Conservation Partners Legacy (CPL) grant program. Now in its ninth year, the program has awarded over $50 million to nonprofit organizations and government entities for conservation projects. The DNR recently received $9.9 million in grant requests from 86 applicants during round one of the application cycle. The DNR has funded $7.5 million of these requests. “Projects include habitat improvements that benefit deer, turkey, pheasants and a wide variety of species,” said Jessica Lee, DNR conservation grants coordinator. “Oak savanna, wetlands and pollinator habitat are restored through this grant program, to give a few examples.” Conservation groups and others interested in applying in the future are encouraged to plan in the coming months so they can apply when funds are again available. The DNR’s CPL program provides grants ranging from $5,000 to $400,000 to conservation nonprofit organizations and government to help fund projects to restore, enhance or protect fish and wildlife habitat in Minnesota. The Lessard-Sams Outdoor Heritage Council recommended the grant program, which was approved by the Minnesota Legislature and has been in place since 2009. Funding has been provided annually from the Outdoor Heritage Fund, which is part of the Clean Water, Land and Legacy Amendment and funded by a voter-approved statewide sales tax of three-eighths of 1 percent. Round one of the proposals for fiscal year 2017 included the traditional grant cycle, the metro grant cycle and the expedited grant cycle. The expedited cycle for standard types of projects is currently open for another funding round, with the maximum grant award being $50,000. Applications are due online by 4 p.m. Friday, Jan. 19. More information on the program’s grant cycles, and a complete list of the most recent grant applications and past awarded projects are on the DNR website at mndnr.gov/cpl. Discuss below - to view set the hook here.