Sturgeon in Red lake

[CatManLee]

Are these sturgeon going to deplete the walleye population?

[LABS4ME]

They haven't on LOW or the ST. Croix or Rainey rivers, can't imagine why it'd be different on Red. The egg sucking deal is a 'no big deal'... no where near the imapact everyone says.

Good Luck!

Ken

[kelly-p]

10-2-07

"If it's mainly a day bite as it was for me last year, I might as well go to LOW. Fishing is usually just as good, sometimes better than Upper Red and I can keep more fish."

You're worried about sturgeon hurting the walleye population AND you're moving to LOW.

[hanson]

Quote:

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They haven't on LOW or the ST. Croix or Rainey rivers, can't imagine why it'd be different on Red. The egg sucking deal is a 'no big deal'... no where near the imapact everyone says.

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Don't forget the Columbia River out west! BIG, BIG Sturgeon and BIG, BIG Walleye! They can co-exist just fine.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Small numbers versus large...rivers only versus rivers and lakes...deep lakes versus shallow lakes... low harvest rates versus high...they will have an impact... unless only a few make it.

[LABS4ME]

I think LOW is considered a shallow lake. At least the south end where all the sturgeon tend to be. I've caught several sturgeon in the Morris gap in 8-9' of water. I've caught a couple walleyes in there as well.

My guess is nature had it figured out for centuries in Red, it'll get figured out again. Seems there was pretty good fish populations on Red during the 1st half of the 1900's... when there were still plenty of sturgeon in there.

I haven't heard any feathers being ruffled on the loss of walleye on LOW, or the stirred up water either... I think the sturgeon population on LOW will be a lot higher than Red will ever see. Are you basing your demise in the walleye numbers on facts or just a 'gut feeling'? If you have some facts I would like to read them, I may even change my opinion...

Good Luck!

Ken

[JBMasterAngler]

How come nobody is worried about the sturgeon eating sheephead or eel pout eggs?

[CatManLee]

Geez Kelly, are you a little sour about me going to LOW this year??? FYI-I didn't post this question, a lady I work with did...she has a cabin on the lake and was wondering if they would affect the Walleye population, so I let her post the question under my name.

I know the answer, but she wanted to see what ya'll would say. I'm not worried about it, As Hanson and others have stated, just look at other bodies of water with them...

And, so what if I might not be fishing the lake as much this coming winter, can't I still be concerned about the Lake? That and I didn't say I would never fish there again, just not as much, but I'll still make some trips to Upper Red I'm sure. I know I'll get the Crappie Itch a few times this winter...

Can't we all just get along???

[Scott M]

There won't be any noticeable effects of sturgeon on Red Lake walleye, or anything else for that matter. Lake Sturgeon will be freeing up energy resoures from the detritus. In other words, they will be getting food from an underutilized source, the bottom, not from other fish like pike, walleyes, or crappie. These guys can coexist with just about everything. A lot of Minnesota's larger lakes had sturgeon in them until they got fished out.

Fish from Big Falls

Cross Lake Sturg

Detroit Lake Sturg

St. Croix? Sturg

White Earth lake Sturg

These things have been around and peacefully coexisting with other fish before man came along and decided walleye was valuable and anything else that might interfere with it should be extirpated or at the least scorned.

Consider it a new opportunity on the horizon.

[PikeTipper]

I know many guys use worms to fish them but a main bait on the St Croix is Shad or sucker so they do eat fish. I'm guessing more as a scavenger of dead fish though and shouldn't cause any problems with the walleyes.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

LOW is a shallow lake??? It has vast areas of deep water... for the other fish to get away from those dinosaurs...

Sure most lakes have shallow areas, but most of Upper Red and a good part of Lower Red is shallow, which is where you saw the Sturgeon feeding or sunning or rolling...so they will be all over the place.

As far as the not worrying about the sheep head, right now the St Croix River seems to have an abundance of two kinds of fish, small Sturgeon and Sheephead, bottomsuckers...they must be working together...so I won't worry about them...

Most everyone likes to see or catch a huge fish, but it seems like they are trying to introduce unbelievable numbers of a huge eggsuckin' menace, that could take over the Woorrrlllld!

Remember the big boom in Walleye population came in the Sturgeons absense...and the big boom in Crappie population came in the absence of both Sturgeon and Walleye...and with the successful reintroduction of Walleye...the demise of the Crappie...and Perch extravaganza...and who did the Whitefish in...???

Well we will have to wait and see...time tells all, but I hope the reintroduction of Sturgeon is not as successful as the Walleyes was. Hope they don't turn into Bony Rabbits...

Future Year classes will tell the tale...

[hanson]

Are you seriously beleiving what you are typing???? I thought you were in sarcastic mode for awhile but sure don't think so anymore.

Every body of water in the state of Minnesota that currently has a healthy sturgeon population is home to a very, very healthy walleye population. Should I name them?? I will... Rainy River/Lake of the Woods, St Louis River, St Croix River, Red River, Mississippi River. What do all these bodies of water have in common besides sturgeon? Some very good walleye fishing! Pool 4 of the Mississippi is a nationally renowned walleye fishery, its also home to some very large sturgeon.

People think muskies eat walleyes too but each one of the top 5 best muskie lakes in the state are also among the top walleye lakes- Vermilion, Mille Lacs, Minnetonka, Leech, and Lake of the Woods.

Like someone posted earlier, if the Lake Sturgeon diet consisted of eggs only, they would be gone. The window of opportunity for the sturgeon to feed on eggs alone is very small. There is no way they can feed enough in that short time frame to sustain them throughout the year.

[LABS4ME]

Moby, I know LOW is deep on the Canadian shield side of the lake... not too many sturgeon up there... they're down in the main lake where the 'deep water' is in the mid-30's much like lower Red.

Sorry, can't buy into your pessimissim. Thought maybe you had some facts to share with us. You really think the Tribe or the State DNR would put them in there if they felt they would even have a miniscual chance of derailing the walleye recovery? Not too worried about them sturgeon, just like Hanson said... not too worried about muskie stocking either.

Good Luck!

Ken

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Not sure I can take you seriously either...

The waters you named are quite different both in type and depth and structure... Upper Red is mostly a shallow bowl, with a current walleye population density that puts all the others to shame.

Of course the eggs are only there for a Very Important, short period of time...during which many may be disturbed or eaten...this is the main concern...after that comes the pest factor... Most fish eat different things at different times..and only when they are avilable.

What Sturgeon eat the rest of the year does not lessen the potential impact on the spawn...

I have not and am not saying there will be no Walleye in Red Lake...but it will have an effect, and in my opinion significant... IF there are thousands of these vacuum-monsters putting the feed bag on...

I guess I'm not much of a "Caviareater" ...

Anyway it will be a while for verifible results, but with a cause comes an effect...and it cannnot be plausibly denied that the Crappie Explosion was linked to the Walleye absence...and I believe the Walleye Resurgence directly effected the Crappie Reduction...

And again... Do you really believe that thousands or tens of thousands more, of hungary little bottomsuckers will have no negative effects??? Perhaps the Sheephead are only a forerunner of things to come, or perhaps they will be somewhat displaced by the Sturgeon.

If there are only relatively small numbers surviving the effect will be minimal...otherwise not.

Maybe you are unaware that the plan is to release 100,000 per year for 20 years...2,000,000...

Of course you are entitled to believe otherwise...hope I am allowed to have differing opinions and beliefs.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

I have posted more facts than all the wishful thinking...most of us will be dead before there are numbers of 100# Sturgeon in Red..if however there is an over abundance of bottomfeeders, we will all have to live with the consequences...

Cause and effect; smaller numbers, smaller effect...greater numbers, greater effect...

I have seen many posting how the Crappie boom could not have occurred without the absence Walleye...well if the lake was overpopulated with bottomsuckers neither the Crappie or Walleye boom would have happened...look at the waters with Carp infestation...

Again if its only a few here or there no biggie...if its Armies gleaning the bottom bare...

It probably will be small amounts surviving... but in the event...that they are overly successfull, it would be short sighted to pretend they can have no effect at all...

[kelly-p]

"Maybe you are unaware that the plan is to release 100,000 per year for 20 years...2,000,000... "

Isn't that the numbers for the entire RED RIVER WATERSHED? Not Red Lakes or Red Lake River or even the Red River but the entire watershed of the Red River. As far as I know 10,000 fingerlings were stocked this year in the Red Lakes and another 10,000 are planned to be stocked in 2008. The rest are all in other parts of the state.

No problem CatManLee. That was just someone else using my computor.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

In the 10,000 Sturgeon fingerlings thread:

Post by Hanson with Link: in the Link; 2002 plans to release 400,000 Sturgeon per year for 20 years into the Red Lake River and 200,000 per year into the Roseau.

Also nice picture of a 15 foot long, 400+ pound, Sturgeon.

Note: The dams or otherwise impassable obstacles in the map, in the Link, have now been altered or removed to allow free passage.

Post by Bassman 09; stating that a Regional Fisheries Manager recently stated releasing 200,000 per year into the Red Lake River.

According to Red Lake Net News; 10,000 5-6" released into Lower Red Lake, near the entrance of the Blackduck River and another 10,000 to be released next year.

Also adjustment in the slot size for Commercial Walleye Fishing up to 20 inches.

According to the Bemidji Pioneer October 4 07; the 5-6 inch Sturgeon released into Red should double in size in the next year.

If so they would already be 10-12 inches long...

So conflicting or outdated data, and who knows how many of the Red River fish will enter Red Lake, as all the channels are restored for free passage...

[JBMasterAngler]

Will sturgeon eat some walleye eggs? Sure. But so will the billions of shiners, perch, crappies, sheephead, suckers, and crayfish. The walleye population will continue to grow, you'll catch just as many (if not more) next year, 5 years from now, 10 years from now! I give great kudos to the DNR and red lake band for putting this reintroduction together. I'll be fishing red lake for the first time this winter, and hope to return in the years to come, and would love the oppurtunity to catch one of those prehistoric beauties. Perhaps muskies will be next?

[kelly-p]

"Anyway it will be a while for verifible results,"

Doesn't the verifible fact that for centuries walleye and sturgeon coexisted in the Red Lakes just fine. No need to wait for that result, it has already happened.

"and who knows how many of the Red River fish will enter Red Lake, as all the channels are restored for free passage..."

Does that mean you think we're going to have a sturgeon stampede. Somebody better call up Foster and have him get his seals organized cuz we got us a stampede coming.

For centuries until man build dams in the late 1800's and early 1900's all of the channels were free passsage. Why didn't all the sturgeon go to the Red Lakes then?

[Scott K]

I for one wouldnt mind hooking into one of those giants while fishing for walleyes, most likely wont happen in my life time . The last few years I fished url, the thing I have noticed is the walleyes are kinda skinny, and I have noticed less perch. Is there going to be enough bait fish to feed the massive amount of walleye, pike, and now sturgeon? Or are the size of the fish going to be stunted due to less bait fish?

[CatManLee]

No worries Kelly, I'm not mad at ya. You stated your point of view and I replied...that's it.

WOW, I need to tell her to check out this post...she's gotten everyone all up in a ball over this one simple question.

I myself like fishing for and catching Sturgeon, I would love it if we had them in any abundance here in Thief River Falls. I have not heard of any being caught recently, but have heard "stories" from people that say they have seen them come up and roll on the water here in town. I also remember as a kid, seeing them below the dam.

As has been stated, time will tell...I'm done with this now!

Bye!

[Heartman]

I thought sturgeon were native to the Red River water shed, which includes U & L Red Lake. The stocking is to replenish the depleted population, in an attempt to bring them back, just like what is being done with the walleye.

The Red Lakes were once tremendous walleye fisheries without our help, and they were full of sturgeon back then too. Yada, yada, yada on what happened then, but I bet their effect on the overall population of Red Lake walleye will be negligible this time around, just as it was in days gone by.

But I could be wrong.

[Nelson380]

Quote:

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The waters you named are quite different both in type and depth and structure... Upper Red is mostly a shallow bowl, with a current walleye population density that puts all the others to shame.

And again... Do you really believe that thousands or tens of thousands more, of hungary little bottomsuckers will have no negative effects??? ...If there are only relatively small numbers surviving the effect will be minimal...otherwise not.

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If you want a comparable body of water look to Lake Winnebago in WI; shallow bowl, 138,000 acres, max depth 21'. Amazing sturgeon fishery right along side an amazing walleye factory.

You fears are unfounded.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Thanks Nelson380, Winnebago seems to be a reasonable comparison to Upper Red, in both size and depth.

I couldn't find any info on lake bottom makeup, or fish counts, though I found info stating it as being a good Walleye and Sturgeon Fishery.

Also the number of cars on the ice per acre was comparable to Red a few years back...10,000 cars on 100,000+/5,000 on 50,000 acres...that must have put a load on the lake!!

Unfortunately there is trouble brewing there. They have had some large dieoffs of...everyones favorite (after Sturgeon),...Sheephead!

Seems like they may have the Great Lakes Virus, (no doubt brought in by the Sturgeon as a way to knock off the competition, told ya so ), if so it will likely spread to all the fish...they are holding their breath...

I was not concerned about the reintro of great numbers...millions...of Sturgeon into the Riverway, until realizing that previous obstacles that prevented them, had been altered to allow them to enter Red lake.

In the way past they did enter Red Lake to seek their spawning beds...

They are not supposed to spawn til they are 15+ years old, but stocking in the Rivers began in 2002, and I will be surprised if we don't see a number of the youngsters exploring the breadth of their habitat...

Now as to why I have made such strong statements regarding these Critters...I seriously don't care for them to be around when I am fishing...

I have caught numerous Sturgeon while not fishing for them, and when there are a bunch around my spots, I catch nothing else except Sheephead...Double Bonus!

To me they are as Pesty as Turtles...when either come in, I pack up and move, or go home...I know I won't be catching what I am fishing for anymore, as long as they are there. I am sure others have had better success when they are around, and will joyfully en-trance us with their counter exceptional experiences...but I do not enjoy them when I am fishing.

In my opinion they belong in wayward Wilderness Rivers where I do not need to think about...or speak unkindly to them...

Where we used to camp, on a River, they used to wake us up, and keep us up all night, with their thrashing in the shallows...it was fun at first... but soon became an intolerable nuisance...

I have had them tangle my lines, roll in my lines, cut my lines with their Razor Like Bony Cartilage back spurs, hog my fishin holes, eat all my bait...and split the palm of my hand wide open while trying to extricate them from hook and line...in my book they are the true Big Nasties...and these are the smaller ones up to 24"!!!

Now, if by the smallest of chances... these Evil Buzzards do wreak havoc with the Red Lake Fisheries...you are going to see me out on the Ice with Flames coming out of Both Ends at once!!!...(well ok, more than usual)

It won't be a pretty site...but I will no longer need any ice auger...or extensions...

[Nelson380]

Moby,

I live next to Bago and fish it 3 times a week. I'm originally from MN and still have a place there; I still fish Upper Red occasionally.

Though we have VHS present in Bago, it hasn't yet had a major impact on the fishery. I still catch a dozen sheephead every time out, along with a dozen or so eyes; 400+ eyes boated since April.

If your 'spot' is 'overrun' with sheeps, change your presentation. It's likely eyes are also present.

In 3 years, I've hooked 3 sturgeon. Their presence is not a big deal. However, it might make you wet your pants when a 75lb fish pulls your boards back while you'e fishing crawler harnesses. I've never had sturgeon mess up my ice fishing lines.

Relax and welcome the resident species back to its native territory.

[MOBY RICHARD*]

Ok Nelson380, I said my piece, now its time for Peace... it's cool...

[Nelson380]

Cool. If you're ever over this way I'd be happy to take you out.

[hanson]

I truly think a guy has to catch one of these critters ice fishing to really appreciate this fish. I've caught all sorts and sizes of them in open water (Hey, I'm a cat guy!), but this one through the ice was truly worth remembering.

We did limit on 'eyes this day including (3) over 24" that were released for 6 guys. This was LOW, not Red.

When the fish you catch is longer than your rod, something is going right!

[Tim_Anderson]

Sturgeon stocking in Red Lake???

Another opportunity for big fish???

Now THERE'S something that I can get excited about!

Just wish I was younger so I could enjoy it longer!

[DTro]

Walleye schmalleye. They can be caught anywhere.

Can't wait to catch these hogs in about 60 years