giving out information

[uffdapete]

After thinking about this for awhile and talking with a few conservation minded folks I thought it was time to explain my personal position on giving out information online.

We've all had or should have had learning curves on a new body of water. Mine began on Rainy 25 years ago and there's still a lot of curve left yet and I've even had the distinct advantage of having my brother as well as a couple other excellent fisherman as tutors on the lake.

When people ask for specific information online especially regarding location I have a couple problems with that. First of all, as part of my job, I am trusted with information from guides, tournament fisherman and some locals who have put in a lot of time and money to learn what they've learned. Secondly, and no less important, is the potential of exploiting the resource. I know of several instances where gps coordinates have been communicated from a successful party to folks who may be coming soon, which basically eliminates a key ingredient of the learning curve.

From a "been there done that" perspective, I understand that most people who do not live in the area have only a few precious days up here and want to maximize their time.

Some might think that the thought of exploiting a vast resource like Rainy through angling is a little paranoid but anybody who knows anything about the history of this country's resources over the last century and a half will understand.

This will involve some changes personally but I will still talk about presentations and locations you'd hear from the bait shops on here and in my job. But the learning curve is all part of the fun and nobody should be denied the opportunity.

[Rainydaze]

Hey Uffda!

I will second the motion on not giving out GPS coordinates... First off it would reduce the demand for my guiding trips, but moreover can hurt a fishery or quickly hinder a bite on a certain spot. Pressure will quickly diminish a bite and a fishery make no mistake about that. I try my best on giving new comers to the area a starting point, and let them take it from there. The fastest learning curve is to boat up with a guide whether that is myself or someone else. WIth that being said I too hope that we haven't entered such a fast paced immediate gratification world in which we have eliminated the "hunt" on the water. Believe me I spend my spare time exploring new patterns and spots, and I'm not one to mass broadcast my findings. I also appreciate the fact that coming off the lake you take information from myself and other guides and keep that confidential. Your a class guy Uffda!

RD

[plogsdon]

I have been reading this site for at least 2-3years. I can't remember a time that GPS #'s where given out on the site. Usually the advise is rather generic but helpful to those of us that don't live on the lake. Since I come up for a week out of a year it is very helpful to have some idea of where to a least start to look. Those of you that live on or near the lake are fortunate to be able search out those seldom fished spots.Your learning curve may envolve 100-150 days on the lake. Mine is 7-10 days if I am lucky. I don't need to know the secret spots. Give me an idea of depth, pattern, reefs,flats,etc. I know Dave has always been kind enough to show me a place or describe a pattern that I could start. I for one would hope that type of advise is still available on the site. For all of you that have helped once again Thanks!! Phil

[vister]

I myself consider a good fishing trip to contain the following: cold beer, enough food, rain gear, good company, and dry clothes, or enough clothes anyways If i've got them, then catching a fish is only a highlight of the trip. This year in may we did the best we have ever done, but it didn't make it the best trip up there we have had. I am not much of an avid eye angler, so getting skunked fishing for them doesn't bother me. Just being in the boat away from traffic and work is rewarding to me. As far as gps coordinates go, yeah people don't list them on this site, they'd be dumb or pranking. They give them to a buddy before their trip, or a friend of a friend, that's what i believe uffda was implying. Anyways, good luck fishing.

[vister]

also, we are ALL guilty of getting outfished by a buddy in the boat at one time or another and asking what color they are using or what depth they are at.

[Rainydaze]

Hey Guys!

Before this gets too misunderstood I understand Uffda's post very clearly. Your right GPS coordinates aren't typically posted on the site directly. Often times they are requested in person or via email after intitial contacts on the web. Everybody is you best friend when looking for pinpointed action. I personally have tried to give useful information on the stage of the bite in which the fish are in. Yep colors, presentations, and depths are included. Probably not going to be putting you directly on the fish that I'm on though! Heck I don't even tell the Fishing Queen that! She just tells people he's been fishing "BlindFold Reef". She has said that people have came back to her with their map stating they haven't found Blindfold reef! HERES YOUR SIGN I SAY! Every fisherman has to have a few secrets don't ya think? Ha! Good Fishing guys!

RD

[fishmeister_86]

HI,

I HAVE POSTED THIS NUMEROUS TIMES, BUT NEED TO POST IT AGAIN SINCE WERE ON THE SUBJECT. ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO, I CAME INTO THE PARK LANDING WITH 12 NICE WALLEYES. I WAS DIVIDING THEM INTO 3 BAGS, SO EVERYONE CAN TAKE HOME A LIMIT, 3 GUYS FROM WISCONSIN CAME UP TO ME, LOOKED IN THE BOAT & SAID WE HAVE BEEN FISHING FOR 3 DAYS & HAVE NOT CAUGHT 1(ONE) WALLEYE, HE THEN SAID, WOULD YOU SHOW US SOME PLACE WHERE WE CAN GO CATCH A FEW WALLEYES, SO I THOUGHT, I'LL SHOW THEM A SPOT. NEXT DAY I WENT OUT & NOTICED A BOAT ON THE REEF I SHOWED THEM., SO I STOPPED, PULLED OUT THE BINOCULARS AND WATCHED THEM FOR ABOUT 45 MINUTES, THEY WERE KEEPING EVERYTHING, SLOT FISH...YOU NAME IT. I BECAME VERY FRUSTRATED, ANGRY AND VOWED I WOULD NOT EVER DO THAT AGAIN. I STILL GIVE OUT SOME SPOTS & SOME HOW TO TRICKS TO FOLKS THAT COME EAT AT HARDEES, THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, AT LEAST THEIR STOPPING BY SUPPORTING THE STORE...YOU SCRATCH MY BACK, I'LL SCRATCH YOURS, BUT IF I FIND THEY ABUSE OUR TREASURE IN ANYWAY...I WOULD REPORT THEM. THE DAY OF TAKING HOME A TON OF FILLETS TO STOCK UP THE FREEZER FOR THE WINTER SHOULD BE A THING OF THE PAST, HOWEVER THERE ARE STILL GAME HOGS OUT THERE. HEY HAVE A COUPLE FISH FRYS, TAKE A LIMIT HOME, BUT PEOPLE NEED TO RESPECT THE LAW AND KEEP TRYING TO IMPROVE THE FISHERY, INSTEAD OF DAMAGING IT.

SINCERELY,

FISHMEISTER

[harvey lee]

Once upon a time, I was willing to give out everything including GPs spots. Then, one day I go to the lake and find 6-8 boats in my sweet little spring crappie hole.

Now, I will still help out anyone with baits, depth

structure except GPS locations. Most if not all are very happy with any help you are willing to give them.

I have two older gentleman that I use to take out fishing but dont any more as they think they have to keep EVERY fish and tell every soul they know.

[Fish&Fowl]

Very good topic to bring up Uffda. It's up to each individual how much info they want to give out or not give out. What bothers me is when you tell someone to help them out, then they go blabbing to everyone else. I personally don't like to fish spots that someone has shown me unless they're with me, especially if there's other boats nearby.

I would consider myself pretty tight-lipped and very finicky about who and what I tell, and that goes for hunting as well as fishing. There's nothing more frustrating that seeing someone else on your spot as you're pulling up to it. And if someone considers that "paranoid" as Uffda mentioned it, it's not worth explaining.

[pznak]

I ran into Woody a couple of weeks ago, he had been bugging me to go fishing since i bought my place. My 2 grown sons happened to be up so i hired him to take us out. We had a great trip, learned a few Rainy tricks. Really liked anchoring and pitching a split shot with a leach. Never done that before, boy did we kick but. I feel really guilty now as I now know a couple of spots that I didn't know before. I have driven by these spots several times and did not stop to check them out as I don't want Woody to come by and see me there and think that i was a jerk. Am I being paranoid or am i doing the right thing by staying away? Only fish by myself or my kids if they are up, have never told anyone where we were. Maybe seems like a weird question, but i plan on having my place here until i kick the bucket and want to be able to get along with everyone and not rock the boat.

[CaptJohnWI]

I guided full time for ten years back in Wisconsin. I expected guys would go back to any spots I showed them. Many did. In my opinion nothing wrong with that.

Now if I take a friend to a "secret" spot that I don't want him to share, I ask him not to take anybody else there. But on Rainy that would have to be a hump that is not on any maps or GPS. All the spots on maps are no secret so if you are the first one there, I would say go for it.

[montana]

The information that is available on these threads should be enough for anyone to pull out a map and get into fish. The idea of asking for GPS coordinates makes me wonder what those individuals are thinking. I am no way some local hot shot or some god like fisherman. Just your average working stiff who has been coming up to "gods country" since I was wee high to a grasshopper. I learned the hard way about rainy lake and finally swallowed my pride and asked someone for some help. IE: color, depth, etc... the individual who I am forever in their debt worked at One Stop last October.

Showed me the jig to use approx depth and a general location

and wow finally walleyes to eat. The bottom line is individuals need to put time on the water and learn how this fishery works. Its not Mille Lac, its not Devils Lake, its not Ft Peck, it is a difficult but forgiving fishery who will give up here secrets if you work for it.

[fishmeister_86]

HEY P.Z.,

WELCOME TO RAINY LAKE, I DO NOT THINK WOODY IS GOING TO THINK LESS OF YOU IF YOU FISH THE SPOTS HE SHOWED YOU, IF YOU TOLD EVERY TOM, DICK & HARRY, AND HE FINDS OUT YOU TOOK EVERYONE THERE, I GUESS I MAY NOT EVEN LIKE THAT. WOODY GREW UP ON THIS LAKE & KNOWS THE LAKE WELL, SO HE WILL HAVE A 1000 OTHER OPTIONS, AND IF HE COMES UP & WANTS TO FISH THE SPOT BY YOU, I WOULD WELCOME HIM WITH OPEN ARMS. KNOW ONE OWNS ANY GIVEN SPOT, ITS MORE ABOUT COMMON COURTESY & USING COMMON SENSE.

SINCERELY,

FISHMEISTER

[7thson]

first timer on FM . like all who post here, got the maps and chips for this lake, read the posts. then, hire a guide. this is the teacher / student process. then use all the info you have available to find similar structure and, some of your own techniques to refine your fishing. this lake has a lot to offer! seasonally , it will allow you to find fish in places you may not have thought of! had the opportunity to meet Bill at One Stop recently. Great guy, Great store!

[uffdapete]

To clarify a couple things - no coordinates have been shared on this site to my knowledge but I know they have been communicated in other ways, not necessarily by folks here.

If you hire a guide to find some new spots that be made clear to the guide up front because it may change his mind where you fish. G-Man's practice of not fishing a spot someone else has shown you without them along is a good one. Honing in on guide boats or others who are having success to GPS (or fish) that spot is simply unethical. How close is too close - if you're really unsure, simply ask them.

My primary purpose in hiring a guide is to learn a new technique, presentation, or just something not experienced before rather than just a new location. And I've learned some valuable things along the way and also have been encouraged that bonafide pros are sometimes baffled too when things don't go as anticipated. Catching fish with a professional is not a priority for me. If we catch fish and nothing new is learned that's a little empty imo. On the other hand if a lot is learned without getting on a good bite it's money well spent. A guide can't control weather, the aggressiveness of the fish, operator error on the client's part, etc.

For example, while fishing on the Mississippi, we were on a spot that 7 tournament boats came to an hour later. We continued fished among them for a couple hours boating 13 while they collectively boated 1 and upon leaving for another area the guide explained what was a very subtle thing that was the difference between success and frustration. Another time on Mille Lacs, we had phenomenal success and when asked, the guide explained in great detail how he found that precise location and bite. Still another time while fishing topwater for smallmouth the guide told me I needed to "fish with my eyes closed", which was a creative way of explaining that I was trying to set the hook too soon.

Actually I enjoy fishing the most when I'm with either somebody I can learn from or somebody I can teach.

[Birdmasterfisher]

hey guys

I am realitively new to the site but have been reading for ages it seems. I like scaning through what people write on here and hear their thoughts and openions on things. I know all about giving secrets out on lakes around Alexandria, not on the site but to guys that arent catching anything or my buddies. Some people respect the info and some people walk all over it. I appreaciate all the info that I have learned from all the people up there. Not exact location but technique and bait ect. it does not tell me exact spot or where the fish will be on any given day but it makes me feel good that there is a knowledable and great people up there that will give a guy from 5 hours away a little help and pointers. I have to thank anybody that has helped me out over the years for the guidance I have got. I dont like people telling me there hot spots but what to use and depth, Weather it would be piles humps or reefs that is good info to know. It makes a guy feel good if you can go out there and figure some stuff out there on their own to. Like you accompilshed something.

Thanks again everybody

The Bird

[jackfish]

Hey Guys:

I've been watching this thread and it's time I piped up. I have been guiding on Rainy for over a decade and have learned it from the Manitou Sound to Stokes Bay. It was done slowly and methodicly with maps on my lap and a compass.(good maps not cheap knockoffs with fishing holes marked on them that are so badly out of workable scale that they are dangerous) Yet I am humbled by the revelation that Rainy is just too complex to believe that I can KNOW It ALL in my lifetime. GPS is a great tool but like all tools, they break and can be inaccurate. How many times have you found a rock not marked on the GPS or are shown as passing through an Island rather than around it? Like the warning says on the opening screen of my GPS, "Don't use this unit as your primary source of navigation information." I have a client who is an old bush pilot. He tells me GPS stands for GETS PILOTS STUPID. My client explained to me that with the GPS pilots aren't taking the time to learn the terrain like the old days. I guess the same could be said for fisherman. The prop and bottom end repair guys are as busy as ever and folks are still getting skunked! Once the love affair with new technology has passed, we old fishing guides will be called upon again. And we make a better shore lunch.

Jackfish

[Black_Bay]

If someone wants the latest and greatest reports all they have to do is listen to The Fisherman's Net. Chop has all the current info.

[okfisherman]

I remember in our early days of coming up to Rainy we really didn't have a clue what we were doing, but we were having fun. One day someone on the island saw we were catching small pike, we thought we were doing pretty good, and suggested we bring our map over to their cabin that night after supper. They were kind enough to show us 2 spots on their map and said try these, then sit down with your map and find places that look just like it. Well we did, we caught more big pike than we knew could exsist. For more thn 20 years we 'ben lookin' at our maps and having a great time finding "new" fishing spots ever since. Just a little info and some desire is all one needs to have a great trip on Rainy.