LIVE BAIT IN THE PARK???

[fishmeister_86]

HEY GANG,

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY VOYAGUERS NATIONAL PARK IS SOMETIMES VERY DISLIKED BY LOCALS. TODAY, I WAS TOLD BY A PARK EMPLOYEES WIFE, THAT THEY MAY NOT LET YOU USE LIVE BAIT IN THE PARK., IF THIS HAPPENS, THE OPPOSITION WILL BE MASSSIVE. OVER THE YEARS THERE HAS BEEN SO MANY BROKEN PROMISES IN THIS PARK, ITS BECOMING A YEARLY EVENT TO TRY INSTILL SOME CRAZY NEW LAW. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IF SOME PARK LOVERS HAD THEIR WAY, YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RUN AN OUTBOARD IN THE PARK, AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL. I HAVE SOME GREAT FRIENDS THAT WORK IN THE PARK THAT I'M SURE GET ASKED MANY TIMES WHY THEY MAKE SOME OF THEIR LAWS, I'M SURE THEY JUST SHAKE THEIR HEADS.

SINCERELY,

FISHMEISTER

[slotfish]

meister-

isn't that a joke. imagine the stupididty of sitting in canada 50 yards north of the east brule markers with minnows. but not on soldiers pt. gimme a break. what's the liklihood of this actually being passed? just imagine if it did pass, and all the gray areas that would be encroached upon. let's see, can i use dead leeches? or frozen nightcrawlers? only if they're transported in spring water and not tap water.

what next.......

at some point one would hope that park would consider the interest / econimic health of the falls for a change.

slot

[Rainydaze]

Hey Guys!

I too have heard the rumors of this being a possibility. It seems quite likely that the park will end up overregulating itself. Maybe they have too much time on there hands or maybe they were the picked on in school. Whatever the case it is unfortunate watching priveleges being taken away with no regard to the economic impacts of the area. That is a FED's move all the way. Make no mistake though it doesn't matter whether you or I like it. Funny thing is I just drove past Mille Lacs yesterday laying witness to a magnificent coordinated LEGAL effort in rounding up thousands of female walleyes via gill net. The public access all around the Garrison area were litterally packed with SUV's, and Lund Pro-v's slaughtering the pigs attempting to spawn. It was actually a tailgating like atmosphere. Right or wrong you can't help but to feel a little bit slighted. I hope we are not sending any more of our Rainy Walleyes in that direction. I almost pulled into the area to take some pictures, but thought better of it. It actually made me sick to my stomache when putting the math to the impact such an event has on a fishery. Course I'm sure the casino business isn't all that lucrative, so the Walleye fillet sales should help make ends meet. Maybe for the average joe like me they could make me fish with a little slip knot to even things out? Seems fair? Course if they did I'd be out there anyway!

[PHONEJACK]

If you would like to find out how the Park Service treats US citizens, speak with Glen Z., he used to own a resort on Rainy Lake. The Park Service building and public access now sit where his resort used to be. Very interesting stories. Hey Fishmiester could you send me an email, I have a couple of questions for you that I'd like to ask.

Thanks [email protected]

[Black_Bay]

The person may have been refering to the ban on live bait on the interior lakes. More info here: http://www.nps.gov/voya/parkmgmt/upload/FinalDraft%20SWFT%20Spread%20Prevention%20Planl%203-28-07%20.pdf

Although I disagree with some of what the park has done, or is doing, I have to believe they even know an imaginary line is no barrier to invasive species. It doesn't make sense to say you can use minnows at Little Grindstone and the Canadian side of Capstan Rock but not on the American side.

[tearin' lips]

I heard about this as well and yesterday I had a discussion with my ecology professor about it. As I mentioned in a previous post, he is one of the leading lake ecoloists in northern minnesota and has been working with the spiney waterflea since 1988.

From my understanding Voyageurs wants to hinder the spread of the spiney waterflea to interior lakes of voyageurs national park...which is a good goal, but prohibiting the use of live bait is not going to be an effective measure of prevention. The spiney waterflea uses many different vectors of movement between different lakes or ever parts of the same body of water. The most common vectors of movement are through waterfowl, current, and wind. Factors that we have no control over.

Also we aren't even sure that this invasive species is here to stay. For example, Fish Lake just up Rice Lake Road north of Duluth, had a recorded infestation back in the late 80's. When a research team of lake ecologist went in there two years later there were no signs of the waterflea in there...Demoonstrating that this could only be a temporary thing. Testing has shown that the waterflea can live in Fish Lake, so the big question is "What is it about Fish Lake that made the waterflea locally extirpate when Island lake only a few more miles north has maintained a stable population of waterlfeas since the mid-90's?"

Point of the matter is, they are scared that the invasive species is going to ruin conditions in the park and they are trying to find ways to keep the population of the waterflea as localized as possible. However, the problem lies in the fact they they don't know enough about the species to truly justify banning the use of live bait. From what I heard it was just banning the use of live bait in the interior lakes, but that could have changed. In the case of bait travel to the interior lakes, I can consider that justifiable, but all of the Voyageurs National Park...NO!

It will be interesting to see where they go with this. They are going to face alot of opposition from the community as FM had mentioned. There is also going to be research condcuted on Rainy this summer to test the populations of the waterflea so this will also be interesting information to look forward too.

[Fish&Fowl]

I had heard about a live-bait ban for the interior lakes of the park, but not about a park-wide ban for Rainy. I sure hope they are smart enough to realize that doing so won't accomplish anything besides getting the locals to despise them again after finally starting to settle down from when the park first opened.

Any invasive species that somehow gets into Rainy is going to get into LOW and every waterway downstream of it whether anyone likes it or not. The question now should be "How will it effect the lake as opposed to when there was no invasive species?" not "Will outlawing live bait stop or reverse what has happened?" Bring on the researchers and specialists and let them do their studies so we can find out the effects of these water-fleas, but leave it at that.

Oh and don't bother asking me any questions about this whole thing, I just build campsites and clear trails Decisions like this are way beyond any of my bosses and more than likely come from someone sitting in an office who's never even been on Rainy. Again I still don't know if it's true about the full Rainy ban and not just the interiors.

[uffdapete]

I've wondered at times if we will see the day when live bait is banned on all lakes because of the exotic species issue. But like tearin lips said the spread of exotics won't be resolved by live bait restrictions alone.

[fishmeister_86]

HI GANG,

I TALKED WITH THE PARK OFFICIAL WHO IS 2ND IN COMMAND IN THE RESTAURANT TODAY, AND HE TOLD ME THAT IS WAS ONLY WITHIN THE INTERIOR LAKES....HOWVER BARB WEST TRIED TO PUT THE NO-LIVE BAIT ISSUE THRU ONCE BEFORE IN THE INTERIOR LAKES, SHE MADE IT LAW ON A FRIDAY...AND RECEIVED SUCH A HUGE OPPOSITION, IT WAS REVERSED THE NEXT WEEK. THE PROBLEM WITH NOT FIGHTING THIS(EVEN IF ITS JUST THE INTERIOR LAKES) IS THAT IT WILL SNOWBALL INTO SOMETHING BIGGER THE NEXT TIME, AND IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN...GUESS AGAIN, YOU YOUNGER GUYS...NEWCOMERS HAVEN'T WITNESSED IT...BUT ALOT OF US HAVE, ASK G-MANS FATHER, THE PARK HAS BROKEN NUMEROUS PROMISES & CAN NEVER...NEVER BE TRUSTED, AND MOST ALL FOLKS IN THIS TOWN WHO HAVE LIVED HERE SINCE THE PARKS INCEPTION WILL TELL YOU.

SINCERELY,

FISHMEISTER

[bassbuster1]

What can we do to organize against this thing, it must be stopped dead.This would be a huge blow to the economy of the area,we would all be affected.

Bassbuster 1

[duckster]

Hey guys,

I would like to try to interject some facts into this discussion. Yes the Park service is proposing to change the interior lakes to artificial baits only. The primary reason is to try to limit the spread of the spiny water flea and it will help limit the spread of other non-native species as well. The reason for this is that water in bait buckets and minnows that ingest the eggs, are two of the ways that the invasive species are spread. It is the Park's and the States goal to limit the spread of the Spiny Water Flea as much as possible. This change was viewed as an emergency action to try to limit the spread of an invasive species. There will be additional testing this summer to see just how far the fleas have made it.

There are no plans and no reason to extend this to the big lakes that are already infested. I am not sure where this rumor came from but it is not true.

One thing to consider is that under state law it is illegal to transport a quantity of water from infested waters to noninfested waters anyway. So under state law it is illegal to bring a minnow bucket from Rainy to an inland lake anyway. In fact it is iilegal to leave Rainy with a bucket of minnows unless you change the water.

This is all about trying to protect the resources, which is what both the park and the state are trying to do.If you have questions oe concerns I would suggest contacting park staff directly at 218-283-9821. This is a proposed regulation and there is a 30 day public comment period that ends on the 30th of April. There is still time to submit your comments.

-Duckster

[vister]

A little off of the subject, but am I going to have luck finding a campsite for three tents and boats the first weekend of june in the park? Looked at the map link posted earlier in a thread and thought one on dryweed island would be sufficient. Or, are we better off camping where we have in the years past at Birch Point?

[fishmeister_86]

HI VISTER,

THERE IS NOT A RESERVATION SYSTEM, SO IF YOU GET TO THE CAMPSITE YOU WANT 1ST, THEN ITS YOURS, I HIGHLY SUGGEST NOT COMING HERE ON A FRIDAY, SATURDAY OR SUNDAY, BECAUSE THAT WILL DECREASE YOUR CHANCES...MONDAY-THURSDAY, I WOULD SAY WOULD GREATLY INCREASE YOUR CHANCES., SOME CAMPSITES HAVE A TENT LIMIT, BUT FISH & FOWL CAN ANSWER THAT ONE, AS HE WORKS FOR THE PARK DURING THE SUMMER.

SINCERELY,

FISHMEISTER

[Fish&Fowl]

More than likely you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a good site at that time, but you just might have to go a little further east. Most of the close campsites get taken up due to the price of gas. There is no reserve, it's all on a first come-first served basis.

As far as tent limits, there is no actual limitations on how many you can set up, but there are limited tent pads. There will be small and large campsites indicated on park maps, and you will be better off getting a large one if you have 3 tents.