HF 1241 use of crossbows for archery

[fisherking01]

Gentlemen,

Minnesota House of Representative Cy Thao authored Bill HF 1241 which would amend the current archery hunting laws by allowing the use of a crossbow. This would be detrimental to the sport of archery hunting and QDM for archery and gun hunters alike. This bill will be voted on soon by the Environment and Natural Resources Committee. Please send an email to each member of this committee objecting to this bill. Their email addresses can be found at the link below. Also send your local House Member and State Senator an email expressing the same sentiment. Please pass this along to fellow deer and bear hunters.

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/comm/committeemembers.asp?comm=9000

Brent Olson

[lawdog]

What an absurd piece of legislation! There is no companion file and no other authors so I'm sure it won't get anywhere, but I did email the author and my rep saying it was a horrible idea.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Quote:

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This would be detrimental to the sport of archery hunting and QDM for archery and gun hunters alike

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Why?

[fisherking01]

Because you will add a new group of meat hunters to the hunt from mid Sept to Dec. 31.

Crossbow+5 licenses+3.5 months of season. There is no reason other than meat hunting for it.

[Jackpine Rob]

Meat hunters?

I would hope anyone choosing to hunt deer is making use of the meat. If anyone isn't making use of the meat, they should be turned in to the DNR under the wanton waste laws.

We can hunt deer with bow and arrow. We can hunt deer with rifles and shotguns and handguns and muzzleloaders.

Exactly what would be wrong with allowing crossbow hunters?

I'm confused.

[tealitup]

We have numbers to indicate that the deer herds are larger then ever before. We can take up to five deer a year with bonus/intensive harvest tags. Your telling me that someone with a crossbow will hurt huting? Look at other states that allow crossbows and you will see no significant impact. If anything more does are taken; the DNR will just adjust seasons and limits.

[Powerstroke]

The idea of an archery season is that it was mean to be a "primitive" form of hunting. Much in the same way muzzleloader hunting has some rules that the ML hunters disagree with, I think that crossbows should not be allowed for the general public.

I am fine with crossbows being used by the handicapped or disabled, but I don't think they are appropriate for the general archery hunt. There are lots of improvements and technological advances in archery making them more powerful and more accurate, but they still haven't caught up to the level of a crossbow with a scope. Its not even close to being the same thing.

Oh yeah and I'm not worried about a bunch of "meat hunters" running around. I am a meatr hunter as should everyone who hunts. Srchery is not some elitist group of trophy hunters.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I can see this has potential to become pretty heated debate. Having said that, I'd love to be able to use crossbow for deer. I think it would be cool.I don't see the DNR allowing the deer herd to become damaged (meaning small) weather crossbows are allowed or not.

Personally, I have a PSE Express that I bought a loooong time ago and I love shooting with it. I've seen some guys with some pretty darn fancy bows. I have a hard time believing a guy with a crossbow has any more of an advantage than a guy with many of the bows on the market now. It can be compared to muzzleloader hunting. The old flintlock days are long gone and have been replaced with some gosh darn fancy guns.

It's still hunting. The hunter still has to get the deer in his sights. The hunter still has to do his work. If a guy with a bow would take a small buck why would his mind change just cuz he has a crossbow????

The QDM arguement will go on forever. One persons idea of QDM is very different from anothers.

[harvey lee]

I would not have any problem with another hunter using a crossbow. I help guide handicapped hunters every fall. I will use my compound before I would ever switch to a crossbow. I really dont mind how any other sportsman takes his game as long as it is within the laws.

[lawdog]

I would say its fine to use a crossbow during the gun season if you want, but its not archery. Those things are like shooting guns. You can't have a three month season with a crossbow, it takes too much sport out of it. Gosh I can't manage to kill one with a real bow so I want to use a crossbow, not that I'm physically not able to use a regular bow mind you, I'm just not interestd in putting in the time to get good enough to shoot it, or to put in the time to get good enough at hunting to get the deer close enough, I just want it to be easy. YUCK. That attitude makes me sick. I want to use a rifle here next year too because it just too tough for me to get a deer in shotgun range, and oh my muzzloader needs to be able to load from the breach as that's much quicker and I really need my distance compensating scope on that muzzleloader too so I can shoot 250 yards because again, I just don't want to have to get the deer in range to actually kill them, that would take skills...

[Jackpine Rob]

I'd be really curious if anyone here can provide first-hand experience with the range of modern crossbows. I've got to believe that they aren't capable of taking game a whole lot further than a modern compound bow - but maybe someone can clue us all in.

A dead deer is a dead deer - no matter what we shoot, harpoon, or stab it with. Some sort of crossbow season doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

I don't have a crossbow, but they sure look like a like of fun to shoot.

[tealitup]

My point is that ... why complain about HF 1241; we have many many other more important things to talk to our leg's about.

[mattkimk]

I would agree that I do not see why Crossbows should not be allowed during archery. On one hand, for one shot they are easier than a bow due to the scope versus sights. A follow up shot is not as easy though. As far as maximum effective range, there is not much difference. Will that lead to hunters taking unethical crossbow shots at game out of range and potentially leaving an injured anumal? Probably, but there are plenty of Bow users who do the same. Ethics and morality are an individual thing and regardless of the tool some will always male bad decisions. We bow hunters are not some higher level being who are above reproach. I have a co-worker who hunts with a bow only and constantly brags about ill advised (50 yard +) shots at deer on his property and does not belive what he is doing is wrong. Hw has invited me to hunt his property which holds a lot of nice deer but because of his lack of morals (in my opinion) I will not ever go hunting with him. I am sure there are plenty of other bow hunters just like this person.

One other thing, I do like to have the woods more to myself during archery season and this would be altered if crossbows were legal. That is selfish of me but it is the only true reason why I would not want crossbows to become legal.

[Powerstroke]

Although the overall range is not that different, any archer can tell you if you don't hit your anchor right, you don't bend at the waist, or your draw is off you will miss or not hit right on anyway.

None of that comes into play with a crossbow because it is a fixed-lock holding the string (which is is illegal currenty for compound bows). You can put a scope on there and you pull a trigger. Doens't sound like archery to me.

Crossbows should be considered the same a pistol. Everything is the same minus the gun powder. I'm not saying ti takes no skill to shoot a crossbow, it certainly does, but no more than it takes to shoot a rifle or shotgun. Even muzzleloaders are more difficult that a crossbow.

PS, you don't need a follow up shot for deer or any other big game. Make a clean shot to the vitals and you're golden. If you can't do that you shouldn't be hunting. Its just as easy to make a second shot with a crossbow as a regular bow or a ML.

[harvey lee]

I will say that if I had the chance to shoot a compound or a crossbow I would pick the compound. I believe that I can shoot just as good as any crossbow that I have seen or shot.

I have watched and helped many hunters in the past 6 years hunt with a crossbow along with a scope. They are deadly iside 25 yards. I have watched numerous hunters shoot thier crossbows at deer from farther than 30 yards and I will say the my compound will do just as good or better.

Another thing I will say is these guys were using state of the art Ten Point crossbows. Those bolts just dont seem to have the downrange energy for a good pass through at farther than 30-35 yards.

I wouldnt change for a crossbow anyday.

[tealitup]

Good Post Harvey-

But would you want to limit the access for hunters to use crossbows? Or should they be legal?

[harvey lee]

I would say that at a minimum the handicapped should be able to use them and I personally dont see that more deer are going to be harvested because of hunters taking more deer. The DNR will limit that from happenning.

For all the ones opposed to crossbows I would say this, if they are that accurate then why not let hunters use them as then we will have less wounded deer.

If one can take a deer every year why does it matter how we harvest that animal as long as it is safe, legal and humane.

As far as the meat hunter theory, I guess I would fall into that catagory as I harvest 3-5 animals per year. One usually with rifle for the trophy and all the others by archery for meat and the outdoor expierence.

As far as having a second shot with a crossbow, good luck with getting a bolt loaded and cocked for a extra shot. I have tried that for handicapped hunters and its not a fast easy job without being detected. They are also very noisy when shot.

These are some things that I have learned from guiding handicapped hunters and helping them with shooting with thier crossbows. Truely, I will hunt with my compound and others can have the crossbows.

[tealitup]

Agreed I would rather hunt with my compound, however, this next year I am hunting with a home made recurve. BUT, with the decreasing hunters in the woods, and anti's getting more and more of their agenda passed - I would not mind this legislation passing. If anything, I am indifferent to it passing or not passing.

[Powerstroke]

I totally agree with harvey. I do think a crossbow has its place, but I don't think its for the general archery season. I personally will stick with my compound also. Crossbows should definately be legal for handicapped or disabled hunters.

[ScoutII]

I am not trying to hijack this post, but seems some of you are treating this topic the same as my thoughts of using smoke-less powder during the muzzle-loader season. There was only one author presenting the smoke-less powder ban, and it passed. How does the shoe fit now? Some believe there is an advantage, some don't care, while some believe there is no advantage.

I think it will be interesting to see the outcome. Isn't it amazing how our elected officials think. Maybe this new rule is meant to reduce herds in populated areas, by getting another group of hunters out in the field.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Do we really think if crossbows were made legal it would bring that many NEW hunters into the field? I like to bowhunt but would try a crossbow if I could.

Yes new hunters would emerge, but would the number of new hunters be signifigant? I don't belive it would.

[mncarphntr]

Well I think it would, although I use the term "hunters" loosely. Just imagine the discussion in the bar, "hey Joe, you hear crossbows are legal to hunt with now? I tried shooting a bow once and couldnt hit the ground, but crossbows would be cool. Lets go get us a couple and go kill something!" Dont think it won't happen, not saying there wouldnt be some legit hunters using them but there would be far more picking it up for the novelty, and they're the ones that are going to be stretching the ethics part. I say leave 'em out of hunting, but if it has to happen, at least throw them in with the muzzleloader season.

[ScoutII]

Now wouldn't someone think that this would be a way for auto insurance companies to reduce the herd size in urban areas? We know one goal is to reduce car deer accident claims. And a lot of home owners do not want their landscapes devoured by deer.

This change will probably allow more hunters to pass the SKILL test for city deer hunts.

[roosterslayer]

Since everybody seems to think that archery should stay primative and no crossbows should be allowed. Ok but how many people that have commented on here honestly answer that their equipment is primative. if it isn't a long bow with no sights and using wooden arrows, then guess what you are just as modern as the crossbows. so maybe you should only be allowed to hunt during the muzzleloader season as well. If you want to keep the archery season primative then primative weapons should be the only weapon for that season. Me, I dont really care if crossbows are allowed or not. I myself am not interested in shooting one but on the other hand i am not going to disrespect someone else if they want to.

[Eric Wettschreck]

I disagree with that analogy completely.

Who really knows cross bows are not allowed now? Hunters.

Who really knows cross bows are being talked about? Hunters.

Will, if passed, this new law make the front page of the Star Trib? Doubtful.

So, in the end, who will really care? Hunters.

Yes, there will be a few who will try it for the novelty. There are those who bow hunt, muzzle load hunt, heck even shotgun slug hunt, phesant hunt, duck hunt, grouse hunt, fox hunt, yote hunt, gopher hunt, and wascally wabbit hunt for the novelty of it. The novelty soon wears off and the hunters are the ones left in the tree stands.

[96trigger]

You guys can't honestly be comparing Archery to Crossbow? Many archers shoot daily with their bows, I can't see that happening with a crossbow, there isn't nearly as much skill involved. I'd go out and shoot 6 bolts at the target and say, yep, same as yesterday. Not at all like archery, where you have to be able to draw, hold, and aim. Crossbows are just aim and shoot. ALL archers should know, the tricky part usually isn't seeing the deer, its being able to draw and hold the bow as you aim and control your emotions and prevent the deer from seeing you. Hence the law against draw holders. A crossbow would eliminate that aspect of it. Thats why there is different season for Shotgun(Rifle is a whole new game) and Archery.

The technology in my compound bow is great, but it doesn't draw itself back and hold it. Crossbows for disabled hunters are great, not for the perfectly able bodied individual. I am not saying that crossbows should be illegal, but they should not be considered archery equipment. Let them be used during the muzzle loader season. The DNR has made this very clear, I don't believe that law has a snowball's chance in Haiti of passing.

For you guys that think the deer are skittish and scarce now during firearms season, let the State open up a crossbow season before firearm opener. Some of you WILL be the same ones on here complaining about not seeing deer.

[dukhnt]

I have hunted deer in Minnesota the past 4 seasons with a crossbow. The farthest deer I shot was at about 60 yards. Got that buck right through the heart and he ran about 10 yards and fell over. It takes plenty of practice to able to take that shot. Any other questions you have about crossbows, I can try to answer.

[fishane]

Oh my god the sky is falling!! The anti cross bow people should be honest with themselves and admit that the reason that they don't want to allow a new sort of hunting is explained by one simple word: competition! They don't want more people in the woods when they are. Some of the points comparing traditional archery with todays modern compounds are very valid. My dad uses a crossbow (in WI anyone 65 or older can use one without a special permit) and has good success, but I will outshoot him with my Mathews every single time. The crossbow is still a 30 yd weapon in my opinion. As far as I can tell there is only one advantage to a crossbow, and it is a big one. You do not have to draw on the deer, just point and aim like a gun. Haven't we all gotten busted by an old doe when we try to draw? As far as crossbows being easy to learn, when I got set up with my bow I had not shot a bow in 10+ years. By the time I left the store I was shooting 4 inch groups. If this is not testimony to modern technologies effect on archery I don't know what is. Try this with a recurve. I think allowing crossbows would allow more people to enjoy our sport, and if it means a little more competition then so be it.

[96trigger]

Duckhntr, you shot your deer at 60 yards, wow, thats great . You probably do practice a lot. But if you can shoot a deer at 60 yards with your crossbow, and I'm confident at hitting something out to 60 yards with my smoothie slug gun, whats the difference? Oh yeah, the BANG.

Maybe we should just open up firearm season in September and let it run through the middle of December.

In response to pressure, am I worried about it? you bet. maybe I'm just paranoid, but I hunt in the Whitewater state park area, its hard down here to find private land, if you opened up Crossbow during archery, I'm pretty sure we would see a big increase in pressure. We would probably start seeing more deer drives in October. I'm trying to find a nice piece of recreational property around here but its hard to find 40 acres of recreational for under $200,000.

[mncarphntr]

Crossbows modern? Better check the history books. Its not a question of modern or primitive, a crossbow is an entirely different weapon. Just because it has a string doesn't make it a bow. And I'm not naive enough to say that since it has a stock and a trigger that its the same as a gun. Its just different. As for getting more people involved in hunting, if you want to hunt and are able-bodied, then there is nothing stopping you from bowhunting. This is one of those debates that will never be solved, I just hope it doesn't pit hunter against hunter.