Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

proposed legislation


Recommended Posts

I recieved this by e-mail, not sure if its valid but a good talker anyway.

ATTENTION!!! Fishermen, Bait and Tackle Shops, Resorts, and Landowners

There is proposed legislation that could end the supply of live bait for fishing and fish for stocking our Minnesota lakes.

House File 1188 is written in a way to eliminate the use of ponds for raising fish and live bait. It will end the availability of vital live baits such as golden shiners and sucker minnows and drastically reduce the production of walleye and other game fish at a time when more and more lakes are dependent on stocking.

Senate File 919 will make it impossible for a pond owner’s to grow or allow the raising of fish or bait on their own property and will also reduce live bait and fish production.

These bills will result in less fish available to catch, and very little live bait to choose from so there will be serious impacts on all fishing-related businesses!

Please contact your senator and representative immediately to voice your concern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Hawghunter! Hopefully that is a bunch of "hawg wash". I wouldn't worry too much about it, because the only thing our legislators can get done down there is pass raises for themselves. I would think the DNR would have enough common sense to step in and do something about that, but who knows. This is a crazy world we live in. Thanks for the heads up though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand the bill text for 1188, it still appears that permits will be issued by the governing parties for aquatic use. On SF 919 it appears to be an issue with public waters and aquaculture. If I understand the two bills correctly I do not believe there will be an affect on use of privately owned waters for the aquaculturists who aquire the correct permits. I wouldn't be too concerned, but things will continue to change over the years.

Jason Erlandson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DNR does what it is told. It is run by politicians. They can button hole certain politicians to to get certain bills introduced. Thats about it. If no one speaks up they will do what they want. Good luck talking to your senator or rep. Ive sent e-mails and hard copies to them with only one response" thanks for writing" from Tom Sauxhaug of grand rapids. Havent heard a whimper from Mary olson whose suppose to support outdoor activities in the area. Makes you wonder what you have to do to get their attention. Doesnt seem like their for common folk anymore. Thats enough venting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hawghunter,

Let me guess, you got this e mail from a private aquaculturalist. I would even venture to say his initials are JR.

I wouldn't go calling you reps to oppose this one. Getting a handle on waters, what can and can't be produced in them etc., is a major thing the state should have done years ago. It would be best for the water quality (invasives), ducks, walleyes, and the bait stores and suppliers won't notice a thing. My guess is that this is just an exampe of someone (a group of private aquaculturalists) trying to rally the angling troops for something that really only affects a small private, profit driven business and won't have a negative affect on anglers or their bait supply at all.

ccarlson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey CCarlson,

My son and I went hunting with you last fall - Andy's friend. I was wondering where you where when you caught that monster that your kid is holding? Always looking for another spot to test. How's next year looking? Sorry to get off the beaten path here gents.:>)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CiscoKidd,

Give me another clue about hunting last fall. What were we hunting for and where? I hunt with a group of guys up in Squaw Lake, otherwise just relatives elsewhere.

Anyway, my daughter caught that 17 pound pike herself from 2 feet of water on a mimic minnow. The same trip she caught a 19" smallie and a 29.5" walleye. She's pretty good at knowing how to fight big fish. All came from a lake in Ontario called Dogtooth. It's a good lake but not easy Canadian fishing by any means.

ccarlson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure we went deer hunting up on the land east of Hackensack. I know Andy who is Charlie's bro-in-law. Sounds like your daughter did really well. I guess we'll see you in the fall again.

Terry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CiscoKidd,

Sorry, wasn't me. I deer hunt over in Battle Lake. My dad has some land East of Hackensack by blackwater lake that he lets some neighbors hunt but I never have.

ccarlson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My mistake. The picture being a little grainy obscured just enough to error out. Nice fish anyway!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To get back on track.... some of the wording in the bill may destroy the sucker/shiner minnow industry in MN as we know it. Also, many of the people who raise and distribute these minnows also raise walleye for the DNR and private groups. Seems as if we are concentrating on a very small part of the problem, when we could be doing something about other, more contributing factors such as development, pollution control, etc...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The person or entity requesting a license renewal for an aquatic farm in waters

1.12of the state must submit for each body of water a management plan that is designed to

1.13ensure that the ecological value for that water for supporting waterfowl and other native

1.14aquatic wildlife will be restored to its original condition.

In theory it all sounds good, but who decides what the "original condition" is and if those looking for permits want to continue providing us bait, I am sure they will have to hire extra staff to complete this task and that relates to MUCH HIGHER minnow prices. I guess I don't see this as no big deal, unless the legislature is about effective as they have been in the past few sessions, then nothing will get decided anyway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mostly it depends on what waters you are using as rearing ponds. All the bait dealers that I have dealt with own the ponds or lease them from private land owners. Trying to use public waters for rearing would be quite a risk for numerous reasons.

Jason Erlandson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I read "waters of the state" as any waters in the state, not waters "owned by the state." Did I misunderstand?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After talking to one of my bait dealers I realize that there are some troubling issues with this legislation. Some of the proposed bills even would limit access via right of ways, including some of the lakes and rivers we fish here in the Brainerd area. If you guys have a minute I would take the time to email or call our representatives and let them know we do not support these bills. If these bills pass it could get a little ugly for anglers.

Jason Erlandson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are entering an age where exotics are spreading at alarming rates.

Have you guys done any reading about the virus spreading throughout the great lakes?

A few years ago I thought Canada was being political when they quit allowing bait across the border. Now we know why that have been doing it. I give them a lot of credit. Hopefully we are smart enough to error on the side of caution and protect our lakes from further spread. I see this bill has more to do with riparian rights but it could be a step in gaining control of our waters.

I particularly like section f that states the waters need to be maintained to support wildlife and fish.

I'm not defending the legislation or supporting it though as I don't see that as our job to speculate.

It makes me nervous that we see such issues as this as political and try to influence decision based on our convenience. I get nervous basing a decision on the information provided by a bait dealer.

Where do the DNR wildlife and fisheries biologists stand on this issue? I would like to hear some first hand information from them rather than second hand speculation and bucket biology going into the decision.

ccarlson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that alot of the time things are done only with the thought of ones conveinence in mind. And with these sports being marketed as they are(fishing, hunting, nature), we do need to be wary of the impact that we are putting on lakes and wildlife. There is probablly some things that should happen in this bill, but the people who write these bills are simply looking at the numbers as a collective and trying to apply them to everything...not that that is bad, but not all of it is problematic.

From what I understand regarding this bill, the senate is not changing much. You already have to obtain a license to raise and trap minnows/leeches.

You have to have a "hatchery" license to take sucker eggs from the rivers.

In the past year, you now have to take a class in order to obtain the tags that are required on every minnow trap that is set.

And on top of it all you must retain a MN fishing license.

I feel that mostly what this bill is doing, is creating more hoops for the bait trappers to jump through.

Don't get me wrong though, there needs to be regulations and rules to ensure some sort of balance.

I have worked both ends of this industry, retail and wholesale. I have experienced the sheer draining and grueling work involved with it. I will always have respect for the guys that supply the bait shops.

From my experience, I can honestly say that birds, mainly pelicans, are more of the culperate here when it comes to introducing foreign aquatic species.

We dealt mainly with privately owned ponds. Most of them in the middle of a farmers pasture. Every pond looked the same.

They all had the same aquatic speices in them, and they all had the same water clearity, and for the most part, the same mix of minnows. And every last one of them held ducks and other wilflife. 1/4 acre to 20 acres, the only difference was the depth, and how many cows you had to move to get there.

Very little trapping is done in public waters.

Shiners in the spring come from public lakes, and redtails come from public rivers/streams(not trapped though, they have to be seined, thats why they are so much $$)

These traps/nets are generally clean when they go in the water, or have been used in only that area.

This bill has been in the works now since last summer, and was shot down and taken back to the drawing board.

I would love to answer any bait ?'s that people have, because rarely do I get to spread this knowledge to the public. smirk.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the insight Daddyducker. Ccarlson- I have no problem with trying to protect our natural resources, but you can't base this bill solely on what Biologists that work for the DNR are concerned. They may come up with the "ideal" idea, but many times the "ideal" idea just isn't possible. It is like saying, we need to stop air pollution, so no cars, no factories, no campfires, no burning whatsoever. Would all of this help, sure, but is it possible?? My main problem lies with the "restoring areas to their original condition" part of the bill. What is their original condition?? How far back do we go?? Who decides?? I guess I see this industry as a very, very, very small part of the problem. We could do better creating stricter guidelines for development, runoff, habitat destruction of lake/river shore owners etc. Instead of nipping at the "little guys" who are mostly helpless, lets take a bite out of the big problem!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, I am not directing any of my beliefs at anyone specific. I just think their are bigger issues we could be dealing with. I enjoy the fact that FM allows us a chance to debate and talk about concerns as well as help to get the word out to protect our resources grin.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Coach,

I agree completely with your statements about looking after the bigger problems such as development and such. That is kind of what I'm trying to get at too, that this bill is at least a start in getting a better handle on things.

Good discussion.

ccarlson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is more to this then just restricting minnow raising. There are many ponds around the Detroit Lakes area that I used to go duck hunting or pothole jumping on that no one bothers to hunt anymore and one of the reasons for that is they are full of minnows now instead of freshwater shrimp and other aqutic larvae. Ducks aren't even interested in the ponds but the cormorants sure are. Every year it seems more and more of the places I used to go for anything seem to disappear or aren't as good as they used to be. I have to constanly scout for different, more remote or newer areas to hunt and fish. I guess my point is that some of the things that are regulated are for a benifit, maybe just not in your eyes. I personally would love to see a restriction on the amount of ponds that people can use for raising any bait, including leeches and even raising game fish. I am a fisherman and a hunter but I am always an Ethical Outdoorsman first. Just my 2cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way I am not blaming minnow growers for the problems with the ponds in Minnesota I think a lot of it is from natural evolution. I just don't think the DNR is as strong of group as they used to be. There just seems to be less and less done to maintain the land they do have and more emphasis on obtaining new land, that is goingto turn out just like the rest of the land I see, almost useless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree 100% with what you're saying. How far back do we go, and who decides, and why them?

I moved to the St. Cloud area this last fall, and was suprised to see all the run off ponds they have in the developements here. They actually have a fair amount of wetland too. It seems that there are well maintained precautions when it comes to the wetlands, and water runoff.

However, I was reading in the paper about a month ago; and it pertains to the points in your post.

A prof. from one of the nearby colleges has been doing research on pollutants in the Mississippi river, and the levels increase considerablly the closer you get to highly populated areas, such as Minneapolis, St. Cloud, etc.

They have figured out that these pollutants are chemicals that have been flushed down the drain. Things like aspirin, beauty products, personal care products...everyday things.

So basically due to just being here, people are polluting, whether they intend to or not. That is what should be regulated and we should be concerned about that, not things like; "Are the minnow trappers knocking over too many weeds when they access a farmers pond?"

Carlson...I wandered from the subject some, but I think this is more of the problem in which you refer to.

That report stated that those chemicals where infecting fish, and that maybe the next time you plan on taking fish home from the river in a populated area, you might want to think twice. They tested minnows, and the results were alittle scary to say the least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great discussion!!!! I like the points everyone has made and would agree that there are issues. I would just like the legislature to explain to me how we are to restore our lands to their "original state." Does that mean we need to rip down their big, expensive home that was just built in what used to be an old farm field and before that a pasture and before that a roaming prairie full of wildlife where the buffalo roamed????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read this whole post and think there are some great points being brought up.

Can anyone tell me why a bait dealer is allowed to profit from a "public lake" and dictate the management of that lake by finding that minnows were "accidentally" dropped in there when it used to be full of shrimp and other inverts(its happened to a vast majority of lakes in MN).

Just because a slough, pond, or lake has 10 feet of public access it is currently legal for bait guys to harvest bait from it with a proper license. Thats it. It was my understanding, and I hope you'll correct me if I'm wrong, but the DNR is just trying to get a handle on the management of that type of lake.

Just saying its ILLEGAL to stock it with minnows isn't enough obviously since they are all getting stocked (magically) anyway. They need to prevent certain lakes from being utilized in that way.

Because I think most of us will agree the ducks are hurting way more than the cormorants lately.

I'm willing to pay more for my crappie minnows to give the ducks some ponds back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing that has been planted into a pond by a bait dealer is sucker minnows.

And the reason why bait dealers are able to profit from public lakes, is because they are public. You can trap minnows out of a public lake and use them...you just profitted from the lake, because now you don't have to buy any.

In regard to fresh water shrimp, and other things duck eat (duck weed) most all ponds in the state have them/it.

Minnows and shrimp coexist in the same bodies of water. Minnows don't eat shrimp.

I think you are right about the DNR trying to take hold on these little lakes that have a small amount of access by making it mandatory for the bait dealer to get written permission from every landowner on the body of water, but I think that you are over looking the fact that if a bait dealer is looking to trap this piece of water, there isn't much else in it, and the depth of the it is minimal. It probablly freezes out from time to time.

I have run across a couple of farm ponds, the ones in which you speak, that hold fish (crappies, sunfish, bullheads), but the problem with these is that they are so small that the fish never amount to much. They become over populated with fish and eventhough they hold enough food, the size and depth of the body of water is too small for the fish to grow up. In turn the bait dealers abandon these puddles, because it doesn't pay to work them, not to mention that it illegal to possess and sell live fish of the nature.

Don't be fooled, the cormorants are not hurting.

The DNR issues permits to bait dealers to exterminate a small number of these pestulant birds; very very destructive to a controlled fishery, hense the DNR sharp shooters on Leech Lake.

Trust me, if this bill goes through the way it is written, you will be seeing virtually no live bait, other than nightcrawlers in this state. Only one outfit I know of in this state has the money to raise minnows in man made ponds in which the senate wants. The cost would be staggering.

It is one thing to pay a bit more for minnows, but how about $30 for a scoop of crappie bait. Hope you like plastics. *it is illegal to transport live minnows into this state*

Alabama golden shiners are illegal and so are Rosy reds, yet they still find there way in. However, I heard there was a pretty good crack down on the Rosy reds this winter.

They come from Wisc. and lower states...for some reason we just can't get them to grow in this state...no BS.

I agree totally with the fact that the ducks have taken a good hit over the past 10-20 yrs., but I don't think that the bait dealers are as much to blame as most think.

I can't say for sure what is, but I suspect that it is a combination of things.

Sorry if I have come off as a meany. Just want to set the record straight. SORRY! smirk.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that bait dealers have unjustly been blamed for the demise of the duck population in MN. All you need to do is take a drive from MN over the border into both South and North Dakota. The answers are everywhere. Just look at the differences in farming practices. At this time there are stubble fields everywhere in the dakotas. It equates into unlimited feeding areas in which the waterfowl remain unbothered. When we drive through MN the fields are tilled black from ditch to ditch. Our farming practices have changed the areas which waterfowl prefer to migrate through. Sadly we will never see it revert back to the great waterfowling state it once was no matter what we do with the habitat alone. The answer for more ducks is in farming.

Jason Erlandson

Link to comment
Share on other sites

first of all daddyducker, lets keep it civil, I find it hard on this site to debate without everybody getting amped up:

Quote:

The only thing that has been planted into a pond by a bait dealer is sucker minnows.


I'm not saying I have proof anyone in particular has "planted" anything, but I have suspicions how things such as fatheads get into pond or small lakes without rivers. I find it more probable they get planted by people who could profit from their introduction than a shiner hanging onto an eagles leg.

Quote:

Minnows and shrimp coexist in the same bodies of water. Minnows don't eat shrimp.


Seriously, come on. I wonder if you buy this one even. Its been proven over and over that fathead can really clean out invertebrae species over short periods of time. Minnows eat shrimp, look into it...

I personally know two very large bait dealers in this state and yes they DO have privately owned ponds. One of them is in the Mc Intosh area and he get numerous shiners, suckers, and fatheads from both aerated and natural private ponds. He works hard and does an OK living suppling bait from Grand Forks to LOW and south. I suspect he gets a fair amount of bait off public water when available, but would still provide ample amount of bait without it.

They might not be in favor of restricting bait dealer access, but it would be niave to think they don't have a vested interest in minnows vs. ducks.

And don't think that the bait trade hasn't effected ducks.

Our own DNR Fisheries isn't without blame on this one either. Trust me, the Wildlife Division doesn't always see eye to eye on all the rearing ponds locations either. Fry and fingerlings can permanently change a pond too. Especially when we haven't had enough winter kills to rid them of the excess fingerlings.

Yes Jason, the difference in farming practices and efficiencies on drainage does make a HUGE difference. One thing the government has less control over is privately owned land and water, but they can say something about public water though, and I think its time they do. If they don't protect it, who will? The guys who make money off changing it to make money for themselves, I doubt it...

To me its like being able to reshape the northern state forests so I can raise corn on public land without consulting the experts. If I profit from it, yet claim "Its hard enough for me to make it in the big world," should everybody let me do it anyway. I don't think so...

Yes we need bait, Jason you know I buy plenty myself, but I'm willing to pay a little more or suffer on a smaller supply to regain some of our duck ponds back to a more natural state.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • leech~~
      Nope not me.  May want to go nextdoor and ask around?  
    • smurfy
      Looks to me like Leech brought his chair home!!😅😆
    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.