Bear Hounds in Mn

[houndsman]

You guys know to that sometimes a hound can only maybe chase a bear not very long to due the weather conditons hounds cant smell every thing humitidy plays a big factor and being able to run a track bears can be jumped and up and runing and a hound can lose a track when its like that and no harm is done for to the bear hunting with hounds is a very good way to hunt nothing bad or non ethical about it its just one persons opion on wheather he likes to hunt as you non hound hunters say you are hunters then why don't you stand with you other hunters weather you like it or not and help get a new sport in this state and open up to the hound world why don't some of you non hound hunters try this sport once im shure you would go again bet you would even like listening to a hound on a hot track or maybe not who knows just don't knock something unless you have tried it and don't listen to here say about every one elses opions on a sport that they probably have never even tried or further more know any one who has a hound.

[bearplott]

So you've never caught an undersized fish, that you didn't want to keep due to it's size, and threw it back?

[houndsman]

you probably won't get to many response on that one bearplott they have to think what about when kill hooked swallowed a hook thats the same concept but some one will say well thats just a fish

[nolte]

I first want to say that I support hunters or fisherman in any sort of legal activity they choose to partake in. If you want to enjoy any of our outdoor resources, get out there and have a ball.

I live to hunt and fish. From hounds on bear in WI, to labs on waterfowl and pheasants in the dakotas, deer in the rifle and bow stands, turkeys in the damp spring mornings, eyes on the river, to lakers on the big lake. They've all got their own spice and I enjoy all of them, but my favorite has always been hunting with dogs (particularly hounds).

Every step or action we do on this planet has consequence to another. If we were ultimately concerned about not causing distress to wildlife, we'd never enter the woods or waters, build a house or cabin on vacant land, or drive our cars down the road. Now granted this is an extreme example but you get my drift. Food for though, a study was done on the impact of pursued animals(both lions and bear) and mortality rates in AZ, and CO I believe. Their findings were that animal research (ie tranq darting and handling the animals), had a higher mortality rate than did the pursuit of hounds. Both were very, very low though. These animals are incredibley tough. I don't know what the psycological effects might be becaue I'm not in contact with any animal psycologists.

The majority of hound hunters are in it for the experience, the chance to be outdoors, the dog work, and the occaisonal chance to harvest a real trophy caliber animal. One thing that is usually overlooked with houndhunters is their ability to judge the size of animals. Both in a tree or on foot. Young animals or sows are not usually not targeted. Also most good hound hunters are probably more efficient at harvesting animals, so if the population is higher than it should be, they have the ability to bring it down to desired levels. Bait hunters have to rely on an animal showing up during daylight hours, which the vast majority of large bear do not do, especially later in the season. Spot and Stalk hunting has a very, very, very low success rate in rate in our type of terrain. If you feel you want to harvest a bear that way, I'll wish you good luck and expect to put in many, many fruitless hours, days, or even years.

I don't want to give the impression that hunting bear with hounds is easy. I've always heard how "Well, all you do is chase them up a tree and then shoot them". There is a whole bunch more that happens from A to B than that. That would be the same as me saying I bought my kid a pair of skates and he's just about ready to lace em up with the gophs, or just walk out into a field, sit in a lawn chair and shoot a 150 class 10 point. Not the case at all.

I hear a lot about the trespass issues, and there will probably be some cases of it happening. The vast majority of dog hunters will make every effort to stay off of land they do not have permission on and to keep their hunt on public land. WE don't like getting yelled at any more than landowners like having to confront people. After figuring out problem areas, hound hunters will avoid them.

The easiest way to not interfere with other hunters would be to not have the start of seasons at the same time. In WI baitsitter go first one year, and dog hunters the next. That way if you want first crack you can wait till the next year. A spring season would be a absolute great idea because it would be during a time where no other hunters are in the woods.

[sakazulu]

I think that the only thing the MNDNR should consider, FOR RIGHT NOW, is adding a spring bear hunt and see how that affects the over population. Baby Steps! THEN, in the mean time, we could all go over to "Sconi" and try a bear hunt with the hounds. I can see how much effort and pleasure, let alone expense, a bear hunter would get out of hunting over trained dogs. After all, it's a tradition in WI.! We have ours and they have theirs. I would also love to open water fish with two poles, ice fish with three rigs and bait deer but I don't think that's gonna happen in Minnesota in our lifetime either.

[Cooter]

I'd like to clear up a couple bear/hound hunting misconceptions: first the misconception of the bear having 'no chance but to run until exhaustion and then go up a tree' BS. Many bears chose not to run cuz 6 dogs(max number allowed in WI on a chase) aren't gonna do much damage to a mature bear. And most large bears do not tree and you think getting close enough to one of those smart old bears in tag alder swamp where you can't see 10' is easy - guess again. Also, many bears tree long before they are tired. Lots just sit in the tree looking at you like they could care less. And a small to mid sized bear has more endurance than any deer and lots of hounds. Where we practice with hounds there are numerous bears we've named cuz we've treed them many times over several years - that shoots the exhaustion/long term harm accusations. You have to realize as well these bears that have been treed multiple times surely know hitting one of those baits is probably gonna result in getting 'chased' and put up a tree. So you would think if it was such a cruel, stressful ordeal they'd learn in a hurry, eh? Again, I realize not all sportsmen are gonna agree on everything and that's fine, but I'm sick of some of the comments on this topic from persons who haven't a clue about what hunting bears with hounds entails. Later.

[houndsman]

Well said there cooter you took the words out of my mouth

[Nova]

Cooter and some of you other hound guys, I have to agree. I haven't done it and you make some valid points. There are things I didn't consider. thanks for opening my eyes a little. I'm not saying a totally agree with it yet, but you make some valid points and have made me rethink my position.

[Neiko]

Sakazulu, I agree with you. A spring bear hunt would be the ultimate answer if they want to bring down the population. I love hunting and the only thing to hunt in the spring is turkey. If you want to hunt bears with hounds go over to Sconi and support there local houndsmen.

[bearplott]

I think a spring season would be great. People could apply for either a spring or a fall permit and that would drop the amount of baits in the woods in the fall and I would think it would give everybody a better experience with a lower chance for conflict between hunters. It will be extremly hard to get though after what Ontario did with their spring season.

[nolte]

Cooter

You are so right on running ability of those small to midsized bear. They can make a pack of bear hounds look silly pretty fast. We had one last year that we called "Carl Lewis", we ran him about 5 different times all day and could never tree him. I'm talking from about 6 AM till 1 PM, when it got too hot. We finally treed him late in the season on a cool late august day and that was at 5 PM, from running him all day long since about 7 AM. We've also had little bear go up the first tree when they hear dogs. You just never know.

One thing you brought up I thought I'd add on a little bit. Those situations where a large bear will not tree, (although few and far between mind you) are the ultimate hunt for houndsmen. They are one of the few "dangerous game" type hunts in the lower 48. The adrenaline and sheer rush are unbelievable. They are definately not for the faint of heart.

We had a friend of ours last year that drew a tag, but liked to bait sit. Well he wasn't having much luck with his baits before season, so he asked if he'd be able to tag along. We only had one other tag at the time so he came with. We treed a little guy the first day and he was all excited, but we told him to hold off that we'd find him a better one. Well the next day we got on one that wouldn't tree. When I told him we'd have to try and slip in there and get a shot at him on the ground, his eyes got real big and he gave me this look like "Really". Well the other guy in our group that had a tag decided to go in there with him, so they would have two guns. We told him on the way in that the two rules are 1. Dog safety (Do not take any questionable shot where a dog might jump in the way PERIOD 2. Clean shot on the bear. If it's not good wait. Well he got in there and my buddy coached him a bit on when to shoot, and he managed to harvest a super nice 300+ lb bear. He told us after that it was one of the best hunts he'd ever been on, and couldn't see himself baitsitting any more for a bear.

I think bear are pretty amazing creatures. With dogs I get to see about 15 times more a year than if I didn't hunt. Some of my best hunts are where the dogs get to do what they were born and bred to do, and we walk away with a just a picture. I sure hope I never evolve past loving that.

[CANOPY SAM]

I'm glad to see this debate calm down a bit, and the quotes that include name calling being deleted. That's not only unnecessary, but it's extremely immature. Let's keep it clean here.

I'm kind of confused though. On a couple of posts I'm reading where hound hunters have only 5% success, yet on another post I'm reading where they are very successful and efficient, and can easily "bring bear population levels down to desired levels". Baiters probably average about 40% success rates throughout the season, and currently are adequately maintaining a comfortable population of bear in Minnesota. At least that's roughly the number of bears registered per tag issued. I don't know what the numbers are for hound hunters. So is hunting with hounds really successful or not? I imagine it depends on the quality of the dogs and their trainer. Another question is based on the statement that, "most of the time young animals and sows aren't targeted." Does that mean that sometimes they are? Dogs don't know the difference so I imagine that a sow and her young cubs might inadvertently be seperated by many miles before the dogs are "pulled off". This would almost certainly result in young cubs being orphaned and dieing alone.

Please forgive me Houndsman, but I struggle to follow your dialog. Without any appropriate capitolization, or punctuation in your posts it's hard to understand what your trying to convey. Please take a little more time with your dialog - your thoughts would be more easy to understand.

Am I to understand that a group of dogs pushed a bear around for 10 hours in one day? 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.? That bear must have done a lot of marathon training! You must have covered many miles of forest to finally catch up to it. I'm sorry, but I just can't see the fairness in this. That bear must have been virtually near death with exhaustion. And then to think that someone would just "pull the dogs off" and walk away! It would almost be more humane to dispatch the animal, and end it's suffering right there. I know that if I was made to run for 10 hours I'd want to die! That's why dogs are shot when seen running deer.

About 20 years ago I hunted once with bloodhounds for racoons, at night, in extreme northern rural Minnesota. We did not have any success, although the dogs had a great time running around howling like rabid wolves. I still wonder what might have defined our success that night! I really didn't find it entertaining at all. The dogs were so loud that some neighboring farmers called the local authorities, and it was written up in the newspaper the following week.

Please don't keep saying how we non-hound hunters are completely uneducated on the ways of hound hunting. I've never experienced a heart attack either, but I can explain in very intricate detail exactly how they occur. The fact is I've seen hounds work, I know how the animals they are pursuing respond, and I know that virtually every animal within a few miles of where you are running dogs knows exactly where you are - and they run away as well!

Hunting hounds are not at all like bird dogs, and running game with hunting hounds is nothing like hunting birds with bird dogs. Contrary to the earlier post that none of us could ever enter the woods without disturbing or distressing wildlife, I'm not sure you could be more wrong. Still or stalk hunting is very stealthy and peaceful. I enjoy the quiet of the forest, and prefer to see it remain that way. I've quietly walked up on many big game animals without their knowledge that I was even there. Hunting hounds are an extremely boisturous (sp?), and exhuberant mob. I love dogs, and hounds are a cool breed. I just don't agree with their use as animal chasers, and I don't enjoy their general tone in the normally quiet northern forests.

I'd prefer, that if you folks would like to continue to chase game with your dogs than please pursue your fascination in states that already allow it. I personnally am prepared to defend against this practice in the state of Minnesota with great passion and energy. I have yet to see a single valid argument why dogs should be allowed to hunt bear in Minnesota.

As for a spring bear hunt, I agree that it will be next to impossible to start this in MN when taking into account what changes have occured in parts of Canada. Great conversation though!

[bearplott]

First of all hound hunting can be a very effective method in controlling animal populations. I would not have any idea as to what actual figures would be, but a solid pack of hounds I would guess will tree or bay up 75-80% of the bears they are put on. Sometimes they don't get the animal jumped, sometimes they get out run and sometimes they will plain loose the track. With that being said I believe the average success rate in Wisconsin is around 50%. That number includes bait sitters and hound hunters. I believe if the dog runners were too harvest every animal that they had an opportunity too that number would be higher. Let it be known that everyone does not have a solid pack and that their percentages would be quite a bit lower. 10 years ago the group I hunt with was lucky to tree 5 bear in three solid months of running. Now we tree around 35-40 per year. That includes training and harvest seasons. We have not left a tag open in probably 5 years taking 4-5 bears per year on average. The last few years that we did leave tags open it is only because we didn't have sizable bears hitting the baits. Now when you say after a bear runs 10 hours it must be near death from exhaustion, wouldn't you think Wisconsin's bear population would be crashing. That is simply not the case. These bears are no worse off than before the chase began. Trust me, there are enough of them that will go on a marathon that if they are dying you would notice it. Here is one last thing to consider. Dog runners do not need to bait. A good dog will rig or bark when you drive over a track with a truck. They can be put down and chases can start this way. What are you going to do when the politicians in Washington ban baiting? I am not trying to threaten you with that statement, because it will reduce the number of chases we get so we are for baiting as well. Just a question.

[CANOPY SAM]

When Elliot Ness (the cop who got Al Capone) was asked, "Mr. Ness. What will you do if they end prohibition?" Ness answered, "I guess I'll have a drink."

When and if the politicians ban baiting, I will stop baiting. This is only the second year I've done it myself, and if I had my druthers I wouldn't be doing it at all. I'd much prefer to go into the woods and hunt a bear on it's own terms. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to do this anymore.

I'm sorry to ask this, but it just strikes me as kind of funny. If you have a bait pile set up to get a bear where you want it so you can begin the chase with dogs - #1 Why not just harvest the bear right there on the bait pile like we do here in MN? And #2(this is the funny part) How the heck do you keep the dogs out of the bait? My lab would have a hay day in a bait pile!!! I would no doubt have the stinkiest dog on the block, but the happiest! Har Har Har!!!

[bearplott]

In Wisconsin all bear baits must be enclosed inside something degradable. We use hollow logs with wood covers and then we put large rocks on top to keep the coon out. Of course we sand all our baits to minimize the chance that we get after sows with cubs.

[CANOPY SAM]

So the bear doesn't actually (can't) get into the bait? What does "sand the bait" mean? And how does it keep sows and cubs off the bait?

[Neiko]

I think the sand is put there to see the tracks to tell if it has cubs or is a big one.

[ARNE]

What I was trying to say was we don’t shoot every bear we tree or chase, there is a training season. The group I hunt in will only shoot around 5% of the bears we tree or bay up. But have had a 100% success rate on filling tags for many years.

[nolte]

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I'm kind of confused though. On a couple of posts I'm reading where hound hunters have only 5% success, yet on another post I'm reading where they are very successful and efficient, and can easily "bring bear population levels down to desired levels". Baiters probably average about 40% success rates throughout the season, and currently are adequately maintaining a comfortable population of bear in Minnesota.

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I'd have to agree with these guys that in a month long season, hound hunters with a well trained pack of dogs could fill their tags pretty easily. Say around 85%. I think the last 5 years or so we've not filled about 4 tags, and that was because either someone had limited time to hunt, or they were waiting out for a bruiser boar. In WI you need to have a kill tag in possession to run dogs in the kill season, so most groups will save one so they can still train dogs and look for that big bear. Sometimes the time runs out and you never find it though. Another thing to keep in mind is that (well in WI anyway), the DNR said that the average bear shot is around 130 lbs or so. I've kept track in the last 5 years and our average size bear harvested is right around 240lbs.

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Another question is based on the statement that, "most of the time young animals and sows aren't targeted." Does that mean that sometimes they are? Dogs don't know the difference so I imagine that a sow and her young cubs might inadvertently be seperated by many miles before the dogs are "pulled off". This would almost certainly result in young cubs being orphaned and dieing alone.

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We sand all the baits we run off of, so before we try a track we check to see if there are any cub tracks present. If there are, that track is skipped. We have had times where the sow will not let her cubs into the bait so you can't tell. On those tracks that you can't tell, the sow will tree with her cubs almost every time. Now I'm sure someone will ask (well how can you tell it's sow and if it has/doesn't have cubs). You can usually tell nursing sows easily. Sows that don't show signs of that can be distinguished, by their head, body size (they are usually squattier and pudgy), and by looking underneath them from below . You can sometimes even tell a bit by their track. The toes on a sow are a little more round, while a boar is more oval.

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Am I to understand that a group of dogs pushed a bear around for 10 hours in one day? 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.? That bear must have done a lot of marathon training! You must have covered many miles of forest to finally catch up to it. I'm sorry, but I just can't see the fairness in this. That bear must have been virtually near death with exhaustion. And then to think that someone would just "pull the dogs off" and walk away! It would almost be more humane to dispatch the animal, and end it's suffering right there. I know that if I was made to run for 10 hours I'd want to die!

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Sam I agree with you that If I ran for 10 hours I'd be totally spent. Heck I'd be done in about an hour if that. This particular bear could just run, run, run and run some more. The only thing that got exhausted was our dogs. When we finally treed him it was more like he just got bored than tired. Bear have a keen way of playing little trick to lose the dogs. They swim creeks/rivers, come out on a trail make a loop and go back on their same track, climb up a tree and come down(this is called tapping a tree), all sorts of shenanigans. All of this stuff makes it tougher for the dogs to follow. Each time the dogs make a loss and have to figure it out, the bear rests and puts more space between himself and the dogs. We had one large boar that we ran a few years back that would float down the river when chased by dogs. When we would get him going he'd bail in the water and lose them. We finally got him after we learned to send the guy with the tag right to the river, well we got lucky and got him before he made it to the water.

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I know that virtually every animal within a few miles of where you are running dogs knows exactly where you are - and they run away as well!

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Animals around the area do not run away when they hear dogs. I've seen it so many times where we will chase a bear and the deer will simply stay bedded or move off a ways and come back. In the winter we see this all the time. You will have a coyote chase going and the dogs will run close to a group of bedded deer and they won't even flinch. The old addage that the hounds will chase every critter out of the woods is a fallacy. We have one bowhunter by us that begs us to try tracks near this one swamp that he hunts. He has said that numerous times he has heard the dogs running and the deer will walk out of the swamp towards where he sits. After the dogs leave the deer filter back in to bed down. Now I'm sure this wouldn't be the case if the dogs were not trained and broke off of deer, but hound guys spend a lot of time training dogs to NOT run deer. Much more than the average pet owner. One thing that we did was plant a food plott directly around where we kennel the dogs. The deer come in and eat, and the hounds don't even pay attention to them anymore.

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Hunting hounds are not at all like bird dogs, and running game with hunting hounds is nothing like hunting birds with bird dogs.

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The only real fundamental difference in the two is that bird dogs usually don't bark on track, and that they are in closer proximity to the hunter. Although, I've had the pleasure of hunting with a few short-hairs that were never very close to the hunters . The basic premise is the same, they use their nose to track down the desired game for the hunter. In both cases (hounds and bird dogs) it takes a lot of time and effort to train the dogs.

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Contrary to the earlier post that none of us could ever enter the woods without disturbing or distressing wildlife, I'm not sure you could be more wrong. Still or stalk hunting is very stealthy and peaceful. I enjoy the quiet of the forest, and prefer to see it remain that way. I've quietly walked up on many big game animals without their knowledge that I was even there.

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Sam I agree with you that I like to get away from everything and enjoy the peace and quiet. I think you are over estimating the amount of "noise" that a pack of dogs will make. You hear bear hunting with hounds, and you envision packs and packs of dogs running all over the country barking their heads off going every direction. This is not the case at all, most packs of dogs will be very small say 3-6 dogs. When they get a bear going they will line out and can be out of hearing very quick. They will make more noise when they are treed, because they are stopped. You can't hear dogs as far away as you think, say 1 mile tops and that is very, very faintly. I know that I can hear highways, atvs, and snowmobiles much easier than I can hear my dogs.

[CANOPY SAM]

Thank you Nolte. Thank you very much! You took some real time to answer the questions I've been looking for with this issue for a week or so now. Thanks.

Obviously, when this is done right, ie. well trained dogs, good trainers, and good guides, this can be a pleasureable, and rewarding experience. I have to wonder though, how many really know how to do this right?

Just like in our state, with baiters and bears, there are many that aspire to greatness, but there are many more that just about spoil it for everyone else. With hounds, I would imagine that errors and mistakes are magnified significantly by the fact that there are so many dogs and people running amuck (with inexperienced Houndsman). I think maybe that is a large part of our concern as well. We already have to fight with hunting slobs while baiting - as you've probably read on other threads. Throw into the mix a bunch of first time Minnesota Hound Hunters and it'll be chaotic.

None-the-less, I am going to contact our local DNR office and discuss this issue with them. I'm really curious to hear where this topic is at with them, and what their thoughts are on the issue.

Perhaps, if us baiters were allowed to go first. Give us the first three weeks of bear season, then you guys could come in and have your fun. I would imagine the deer hunters are shreaking right about now!

Anyway, we'll see how this thing plays out. You've peaked my interest. I'm investigating pretty much every Bear related website I can find now.

[nolte]

Sam

I'm glad I could answer a few questions for you. I totally agree with you that a few slob hunters can ruin the image for everybody. In our area we know the other hound groups and try very hard to avoid areas where there will be conflicts. We've also had issues with other groups of hunters coming in and running all over the place, making a bad name for everyone. It's very frustrating when you've put so much effort in to do it right. I think you underestimate the abilities of your MN houndsmen. They've had some experience hunting coon, coyotes, and bobcats and would be able to do pretty well with bear. In fact there are quite a few that come to WI in the summer to run, since there isn't a season in MN.

I think your idea of giving the first three weeks to the sitter and the later weeks to dog hunters is a very good one. That way everyone would be able to get a chance. One way we have tried to reduce conflicts with deer hunters is to only run in the mornings in the fall. The majority of bowhunters around us usually hunt in the evenings, because early in the fall deer movement is usually limited to the last few hours of daylight. Granted the deer move in the early hours too, but it's usually going back to where they bed. Bowhunters seem prefer to hunt that night movement when they are coming out to feed. For this reason we try to stay away and give these guys a better chance to enjoy their hunt. We've even went so far as to wait till after dark to bait some of our baits, because bowhunters have been hunting fairly close. That seems to go a long way hunter relations.

One thing that I always see is that different sporting/outdoor groups seem to get hung up on butting heads on issues because they think it will take away from their own. Instead of squabbling over small issues, we'd be much better off giving as many hunting/fishing opportunites as we can. Having a solid and growing base of people interested in outdoor activities(whatever that might be), makes our efforts to keep our hunting/fishing heritages strong.

Good luck to you this fall and I hope you get a crack at that big boar, only a few days left to wait.

[Longline]

I am thinking a good way to get more people to hunt would be to lower the price of the out of state license. If people didn't have to pay close to $200 to come hunt in MN I think that more people would come from out of state and buy those extra license. Or they could do a earn a tag.

[woodview]

I just don't see any way to avoid trespass issues.

That right there is the end all for me personally.

How are they in Wisconsin out of curiousity when it comes to tresspass issues?

Ever problems with hounds around someone's bait site?

Good find on the interest group posting. I didn't even realize those groups existed.

To play devils advocate against myself (even though I'd still vote no)...

I think that a guy who puts out a bad spread of deeks won't have much luck with ducks, a pointer that won't hold point will be followed by a hunter cursing because of grouse bumped 40 yards to far, etc. I think the 'fairness' issue or cheating aspect is greatly offset by devotion and skill put into the dogs and the hunt.

Really isn't the point/joy of a hunt not really so much about the kill as it is about the hunt and work that puts success within range? The idea that you just shoot the thing out of a tree loses a little impact when I look at it that way.

I'd imagine there's more harm done from deer hunters who don't use their guns profiently than bears being run (plus I'm assuming that the clean kill rate on a treed bear has to be pretty near %100).

What might sway me a bit towards accepting it...

*A different season than baiters.

*Intelligent zoning - Probably a huge hassle to try micromanaging for it but maybe something above such and such a highway that would limit it farther north and in areas that would greatly reduced the probability of trespass issues. There are some good bear populations below duluth that I'd see houndsmen hunting where there's simply too much private land and you'd definately have problems.

I can respect the tradition and love of the hunt that the couple of houndsmen I've talked with show.

To be honest I'm kind of sick of the 'dirty' tag that seems to be placed on hunters in general by so much of our society. I'm also pretty sure that I shot a look at the kid who first told me he hunted bear with hounds that exact feeling I so dislike.

If it were legalized and I ran across a group hunting I'd probably bs with them and find it interesting even though it might not be for me.

I just don't think you could keep them off private land and I know how I'd feel having a pack roll through while on stand, whether it's for bear or deer.

[Boar]

Wheeew, I finally got through to the end. What a interesting topic. Lots of pros an cons. No doubt that if hound hunting in MN ocurres, there will be alot of happy an unhappy hunters in the state. But ya know what if it dose? We get to deal with one of the greatest pleasures in the country. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!! Why would another hunter want to oppose another hunters choice on how they desire to experience the outdoors. there are alot of people out that want to take away our hunting rights the way it is, but we piss an moan within are hunting society instead of supporting each other. "United we stand, Divided we fall" I support any hunting in MN, even if I dont agree with it. MY two cents. Later boar

[Neiko]

You are right Boar! FREEDOM OF CHOICE! Freedom to shoot that no good trespassing bear hound/wolf bait if he comes on my property.

[bearplott]

So when a berry picker, deer hunter, grouse hunter, atver or fisherman "unknowingly" crosses onto your land you want the right to shoot them as well?

[Neiko]

That is why I have "Trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again" signs on my property.

[nolte]

Neiko

I got this from the MN DNR regulations book, page 11 on exceptions to the trespass law. I think your comments might be a little hasty before you knew all of the regulations. Your entitled to your have your opinions on the matter, but I'm also allowed to strongly disagree with them. I saw the smiley face in your post but after a friend had his hunting dog shot (on land where he had permission), I don't find it very amusing.

FYI

Exceptions

• A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not

posted to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot, but

may not remain on the land after being told to leave.

• A person on foot may, without permission, enter private land

without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the

dog, the person must immediately leave the premises. This exception

does not au tho rize the taking of the wild animal.

Here is some other information pertaining to dogs

Dogs Pursuing Big Game

No persons may allow their dog to chase or kill big game.

Between January 1 and July 14 a dog that is observed wounding,

killing, or pursuing in a way that endangers big game may be killed

by any person. A peace officer or conservation officer may kill a dog

that endangers big game at any time of the year. The officer or person

is not liable for damages for killing the dog.

Important: Other hunting seasons are open before, during,

and after the deer season. Many hunters use dogs to hunt

upland game, wa ter fowl, rabbits, raccoons, foxes, and coyotes.

Dogs may not be shot during fall hunting seasons, even if seen

pursuing big game, except by a conservation or peace officer.

[Neiko]

Nolte, as long as you follow this law "No persons may allow their dog to chase or kill big game. " there won't be a problem.

As for

"• A person on foot may, without permission, enter land that is not

posted to retrieve a wounded animal that was lawfully shot, but

may not remain on the land after being told to leave. "

My land is legally posted every 500 ft and signed every year.

As for

"• A person on foot may, without permission, enter private land

without a firearm to retrieve a hunting dog. After retrieving the

dog, the person must immediately leave the premises. This exception

does not au tho rize the taking of the wild animal. "

I hope you get there before I do.

[nolte]

Neiko

Grandps always told me there are two kinds of people. Those that enjoy life, and those that worry about it. From the sounds of it you are leaning towards the latter.

I probably won't be able to beat you to the dogs because of the guard towers and razor wire getting in my way. So do what you've got to do, but don't be surprised when the state authorities hand down the consequences.

Good Luck in your Bear Hunt.