Building stands in State Forest

[Powerstroke]

In an attempt to leave one last thread in a civilized manner I got carried away again.

I never even owned a portable till I got tired of not getting deer out of someone elses stand. Several of the stands I hunted out of were there simply cause they were the perfect trees for building a permanent in.

Building perms is legal whether I or anyone else likes it or not. BUT if you build it they will get used by anyone who wants to use it. I, and my family still hunt from perms in the woods and will continue to. Call me what you want, I call me an opportunist. Good, bad or indifferent that is the way of using public land. I lose my spots several times a year and I suppose I take spots form people too. Oh well.

Good luck this fall and happy hunting. We should all be glad we have as much public land to share as we do. Everyone should continue the fight for constitutional dedicated funding to the DNR.

Sorry for my rants.

[Johnny_Namakan]

I've been just kinda sitting back and watching this thread. In doing so I've come to a conclusion. It seems that in heavily hunted areas where the woods are a pumpkin patch of orange, as someone put it, it is more acceptable to hunt out of open perm. stands that aren't your own. I have never experienced hunting in these areas, and to be honest I feel bad for those that do. I mean, I feel bad that it's a battle to do something that you love so much. I happened to get lucky and was raised in the far north of Minnesota where the hunting pressure isn't anywhere near what it is in central/southern MN. Up here you never even hear about people taking other peoples stands. There's just so much area to hunt. Don't get me wrong, it happens, but not that often. I, myself, would never even think about sitting in another persons stand, legal or not. But put me in a different situation, i.e. overcrowded hunting areas, and I may change my opinion on the matter. I just feel that it's kind of an unspoken agreement. Just like when a hand shake used to be enough to close a deal. Now you can't even do that anymore. If a stand is there, then someone else has scouted that area, and put forth the effort to establish a stand for present and future hunts. I'm not saying I'm right, in fact the law goes against my beliefs on the matter, but it's my opinion. But those whose beliefs are the opposite of mine aren't wrong either. I just frimly believe that it depends on the situation.

[snapcrackpop]

So I cant' hunt that area for the WHOLE season(and the next and the next...) because someone has a stand there?

Most hunters only go for a few days (gun season), what about the other 12 weeks, or more, when the stand sits empty?

Safe hunting everyone, only 3 weeks left!

[fasternu]

OK, let me add this twist....

I have hunted a certain spot in a portable for the last 4 years. I have done lots of scouting in the area, and last year finally had good luck, seeing several deer, and shooting 2.

I walk out into the woods last Monday to check my trail camera, and lo and behold, somebody has put a permanent stand ON STATE FOREST LAND, only 20 feet from where my portable has been. Now, this area is WAY off the beaten path, so it isn't too likely that somebody just wandered through the woods and decided it looked like a nice place to build a stand. I am guessing, it is a person from another group that honestly talks like they own the woods, and wants everyone else out because we are "Taking all of their deer".

Is anyone telling me I am not supposed to be able to hunt here? Who is being "ethical" here? By the way, is it even legal to build this permanent stand on this land? What would you guys do?

[Powerstroke]

If you followed any of the previous 4 pages you would see that they are legal on state forest property except in certain occasions of excess. Tough call. This is what I was getting at. Building a perm is like laying claim to an area.... who's right?

[Wade Joseph]

If I may throw in an opinion from the sconni side...permanant stands are not to be built on public land over here. I wouldnt hunt in one if I found it mainly because the last CO I talked to said as far as he is concerned, if your in it, you built it, you get the citation.

Duck blinds are a completely different creature. They must be put up and taken down within a certain time and are public property while on public land.

[colonel42]

Johnny Namakan

I agree with what you have stated. I too hunt in the upper parts of MN. (Little Swan area) The hunting preasure is conciderably less then the Metro areas. There are still a lot of hunters but in the areas we hunt most of the hunting is done on the weekend. Which is great. I love taking the first week off from work and enjoying the woods by myself. Time for some good ol' get out and sneak hunting and time to do some good scouting and finding where other people are in the woods. I purchased a forty 12 years ago but most of the time hunt state and county land near by. We have always built stands and have never had to deal with someone else sitting in the stands other then people from our hunting party. I agree it is an unspoken agreement. I know when I do go on a mission looking for a spot to build a stand I spend a lot of time and effert in doing so. I would be pretty bumbed if I walked out opening morning and seen someone else sitting in the stand I spent so much time on. I know in the future things will get tougher with the increase of hunters and the increase of land being sold. Not only around here but also in the Metro. Down south is growing so fast and finding hunting area is be coming harder and harder. In the last 30 years I have noticed the increase of hunters in our area too. Talking with many of them there are a lot of people that make their way north just to get away from the overcrowding. Time will only tell. What I have done is just started buying land in the area I hunt and try and do the best I can to maintain it and let other people know that it is already spoken for.

[BLACKJACK]

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I know when I do go on a mission looking for a spot to build a stand I spend a lot of time and effert in doing so.

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What if someone else had also spent a lot of time and effort scouting that stand but were planning on hunting out of a portable stand that he was going to put up Sat morning, why should the guy that put up the permanent stand be the one that gets the spot? If its a good deer hunting spot - a funnel, ridge, etc. don't think you're the only guy that has ever been on that spot.

[BLACKJACK]

This is exactly why permanent stands should be banned on PUBLIC hunting land. If you get there first on opening morning and put up your portable, you know that you're going to end up in a confrontation with the squatter that put up the permanent stand. Who wants that on the most exciting hunting day of the year? The squatters that put up the permanent stands will tell you that they just like the comfort of a permanent stand but they know and you know that they're trying to claim that hunting spot as there own - on public land. Thats not right. Permanent stands on public land should be banned!

[colonel42]

Blackjack

I believe if this guy who would be scouting in this area would notice a permanent stand set up before hand. I don't believe he would be building it Saturday morning. Sorry I don't mean to be sarcastic although it might sound that way. Normally if I were to put up a permanent stand it would be after deer season or early Sepember. When I do my scouting I will find a place where I know the deer are using the trails and then scout out from the stand making sure there are no other stands near by. Usually the last weekend of deer season is the best because you get a better idea which trails the deer are using at that time of year and you can also see where other people have hunted. Where I hunt the woods are thick. A long shot for me is maybe 30 to 50 yards on a good day. Even if I go on a mission during season and toss up a portable I know and have scouted optional areas where I know people are not hunting. I know the situation can be different in other parts of the state but where I hunt I know who is pretty much with in a mile of where I set up.

[colonel42]

I just read your other post here. I guess where I hunt the people are a little bit different. Yes, I know it is public land but most of the people that hunt it have been hunting it for many years and pretty much know where other people are set up. In my 30 years of deer hunting I can probably count on one hand the number of people other then our hunting party that have walked by me while in a permanent stand. Why because normally people in our area don't just drive out Saturday morning to a place they have never been and decide hey this looks like a good spot I think I'll hunt here. This isn't Camp Ripley. I know the land is open for everyone but it kinda is like staking a claim. I guess in the area I hunt people are still human and if they do happen to come across a permanent stand they know someone else will more then likely be hunting it and would move on.

[Northland Sportsman]

It seems to me that there is a bit of a conflict with public land and permanent stands. Public means all have access to it, not just those that choose to build a permanent. It just seems to me that this is a direct conflict with the intent of having public land. If you claim to have scouted an area and build a stand and don't expect anyone else to use the area, how does that fit with the concept of "public land"? if a stand is occupied that is diferent then expecting people to avoid an area just because a stand is there. I don't think you can ethically claim a public hunting area as your own. Just my opinion, not trying to start an arguement.

[colonel42]

I knew I should have stayed out of this one. Public land is public land and everyone has rights to it. What I'm saying is where I hunt yes it is public land but people in this particular area know each other and know where people are set up. Not saying other people can't set up where ever they would like. I think I'm digging a deeper hole here. Here is our situation. In the area we hunt there is a group of hunters (10) or so who have hunted a certain area for who know 50+ years maybe and then my father started hunting an area near them about 30 years ago. Since then our group of hunters has grown and hunted the same area. People that live and hunt in this area know who hunts and where stands are set up. I'm not disagreeing with anyone here I myself have gotten away from permanent stands as of this last year. I have gone in and tore down the stand I have used for the past 10+ years. The reason for this is because I wanted to be more moble. Like I said, This is up north and the land we hunt is so far off the beaten trail there is just not access where people will just walk on to it. They would have to cross private land to get to it other then being dropped off by a helicoptor. I do agree with the idea of not allowing people to build permanent stands any longer. I have seen the mess people have left in the woods and also the damage that has been caused with nails in the trees. All in all I hate to call it staking a claim but basically that is what it is. What I'm saying is where I hunt people still think and do it because they have hunted this land and taken care of it for many years. Not saying it is the right thing to do but it is still done.

[almostthere!]

Let's keep public land public. If you build it, expect it to remain public and bring a portable along just in case.

I build permanent stands on public land and do not expect to be the only person using it. I will hang a sign stating, "Open to public use" on all my permanents.

[Johnny_Namakan]

blackjack,

I may be reading this wrong, but you implied that if you hunt out of a perm. stand on public land you are a squatter. Come on, man! Talk about stereotyping!! I have family members that hunt out of perms. on public land and they aren't squatting at all. If you know it's a good spot, and you plan on hunting there year after year, then why not build one? Why go through the hassle of carrying out a portable everyday? And don't tell me comfort has nothing to do with it. Bull!!! I would much rather be in a sturdy perm stand with camo burlap, and a little heater, that I can actually stand up and stretch my legs in, not to mention not spending $300+. Perm. stand are much more comfortable. I guess I might as well say that all people who use portable stands are nothing more than opportunistic scavengers looking to take over peoples established spots. Pretty absurd, isn't it? Think about it!

[fivebucks]

I have to agree with limited use of perm. stands on state forest lands. I am in the big woods up north and there alot of places there isn't much hunting pressure. Our group knows where the neighboring groups are and we don't scout and hunt "their" areas out of respect for them and they don't hunt "our" areas. Up there you can have acres of land that do not hold deer and there may only be one good stand site in a couple hundred acre area. I spend countless hours in the woods trying to find good stand site, and even though I now use my climber, I don't see anything wrong with putting up a perm. and letting other people know someone is hunting that area. I know it is different in central and southern MN but up in the north woods it is the code of the land. I know that will change as more people hunt up there but for now it works fine in the thousands of acres in the state forest we hunt in. I believe it leads to fewer confrontations up there. That being said I believe it will lead to more confrontations in more populated areas. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[snapcrackpop]

Colonel42

"the land we hunt is so far off the beaten trail there is just not access where people will just walk on to it. They would have to cross private land to get to it other then being dropped off by a helicoptor."

So are you getting dropped off by helicopter or crossing private land to get to "your area"?

Hunters are always looking for a better place to hunt, someday they might show up in "your area".

Same goes for where I hunt. I stick to "my area" and the other guys hunt their's, but each year we get closer to each other...

Good luck and be safe!

[fasternu]

What I was trying to say is this:

I hunt "up north" (Bemidji area), hunt with a group of people who know where everyone is, and in a pretty remote area. That's what frosts me. I am 99% sure I KNOW the person who put it there, and even worse, they KNOW I have hunted it for the last several years. I really don't believe it was an accident that this stand was built. These people have MANY stands in the woods, but since I have had good luck there recently, they need to build a stand just to try to squeeze me out. Plus, they think that it is "their" little spot in the woods just enough that I really don't think it is too smart to sit in the stand opening morning knowing when they walk up to it they will be carrying a gun.

You can tell me to move to where it is less crowded, but no matter where I try to go, it seems like I keep running into somebody else that needs to hunt on public land. And no, I can't just go out and buy 40-100 acres for hunting. (at least not until the powerball bounces my way!) Sorry for sounding like a jerk, but let's just outlaw perm. stands and let the public land be more public. Would any of you guys just sit in the stand on opening morning and refuse to leave?

[colonel42]

The private property is mine. There is an old logging road in which I use to get back. Both sides of the road are private. The road is also gated. Depending on how wet the summer is sometimes I wish we could helicopter in life would be much easier. This year you could drive a Caddie back there. That is if I owned one.

[BLACKJACK]

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All in all I hate to call it staking a claim but basically that is what it is.

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At least you're honest and admit that you're trying to hold a hunting spot by putting up a permanent stand, but its PUBLIC land!!! It should be open to anyone that comes along! 'Staking claim' is exactly whats wrong with permanent stands. The claim stakers always say that anyone can hunt in the stand but who wants a confrontation with an armed hunter early in the morning??

[colonel42]

I understand where you are coming from. Just have to say I'm glad I hunt up north and have purchased some land I can call my own. Like I said in an earlier post I'm sure years down the road things will change up here too. For the time being I will continue to enjoy all of my property and also state and county land the way it is intented to be used. I know for a fact the happiest day of my life was getting out of the metro. Thank God for Northern Minnesota. The best of all is being able to hunt a piece of land and not have to see orange travelers crusing through the woods every minute of the day.

[BLACKJACK]

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I may be reading this wrong, but you implied that if you hunt out of a perm. stand on public land you are a squatter.

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Of course they're a 'squatter'!!! They're trying to stake a claim to that piece of PUBLIC land by building a permanent stand.

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Perm. stand are much more comfortable.

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Theres no denying that, but thats not the issue here, the issue is people claiming a piece of PUBLIC property for their own, thereby denying anyone else the right to hunt that piece of PUBLIC hunting land.

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I guess I might as well say that all people who use portable stands are nothing more than opportunistic scavengers looking to take over peoples established spots. Pretty absurd, isn't it?

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Whats absurd is you thinking that because you have an 'established spot' on public hunting land, all other hunters should stay away!!!

The reason I'm so vehement against this idea of 'squatting' or 'laying claim' to a piece of hunting land is because I've had it happen to me. It was private land that I had permission to hunt on, about two weeks before gun opener I had scouted out a nice tree lined funnel about 40 yards wide, I found where I was going to sit in my chair, and left. On opening morning I get to my spot and get ready. About 15 minutes later, what do I see but a flashlight bobbing thru the woods. I get out my flashlight and start flashing it to show where I was set up. The flashlight kept coming and proceeded to climb into a permanent stand 35 yards away that had just been built the week before!!!! It was NOT there two weeks before! I yelled at him "what are you doing"? "I built this stand here" was all he said. He was legal, he was on the other side of the property line, but because he had that PERMANENT stand, he thought he owned that spot. That whole concept is wrong. Just because you scout out a good hunting spot and build a stand doesn't mean that some other hunter hasn't scouted out that same spot, maybe they've hunted it for years, only using a chair or portable. Yet some squatter can come along and build a permanent stand and they own the spot. Thats wrong. It should be first come first serve. They should do like they do on Waterfowl Production areas and just say no permanent stands allowed.

[almostthere!]

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That whole concept is wrong. Just because you scout out a good hunting spot and build a stand doesn't mean that some other hunter hasn't scouted out that same spot, maybe they've hunted it for years, only using a chair or portable. Yet some squatter can come along and build a permanent stand and they own the spot. Thats wrong. It should be first come first serve.

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Same thing happened to me, too. This year, two weeks prior to legal bear baiting, some squatters cut logs and piled them on this public land I know like the back of my hand. They arrived late on legal baiting weekend and told us that they had already laid claims to the area 2 weeks prior and asked, "why didn't we scout earlier?"

Public land should remain public and serve the public on a first come, first served basis.

[gorrilla]

Blackjack, I read your story on your opening morning conflict.

Did I read it wrong or was the guy on the other side of the fence on private land he had permission on(or owned)?

If he was then what's the issue?

If you yelled at me on my own property for sitting in my permanent stand in the dark on opening day, lets just say I would be pretty pizzed off. If that guy wasn't on public land with the stand, I don't see what the argument was, this thread was about stands in State Forest.

[BobT]

Here's the way I see it. If I come upon a permanent stand on public land that is vacant, I don't see any issue using it. In fact, this holds true for portables as I have come upon these as well. You leave it in public domain, how am I to know that it will be used any time soon? For all I know, it has been vacant for years. In the area I hunt there is at least one ladder stand that has been there for about 10 years. Yes, nobody has stolen it. We just make use of it as long as it isn't occupied. There are also many old permanent stands that we use from time to time.

If I see evidence that someone has been using the stand recently, I will just walk by and try to disturb things as little as possible out of respect for the other hunter's efforts.

If I am making use of a vacant stand and a hunter comes by claiming it's his or he put it up, I have no issue with relinquishing the stand to that person. There is plenty of forest for me to hunt so I don't need to squabble over a 3'x3' area.

Bob

[BLACKJACK]

gorrilla, you're right this is a debate about permanent deer stands on public land. I just gave my prior incident as an example of the type of conflicts that arise when people lay claim to a piece of ground by building a permanent stand. On a Waterfowl Production area where no permanent stands are allowed, when you get to an area early, and when you wave your flashlight at the next approaching hunter, they move along. Change the setting to State forest land - both public hunting grounds - if I get to a spot early and set up, if someone approaches that has a permanent stand in the vicinity, are they going to happily move along? No, because they've 'claimed' that piece of ground by virtue of putting up a permanent stand. And conflicts will arise because of it.

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If you yelled at me on my own property for sitting in my permanent stand in the dark on opening day, lets just say I would be pretty pizzed off.

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So lets move onto your 'pizzed off' quote. I was pi$$ed off too. The guy set up his permanent deer stand right on the property line so essentially he was claiming that private land and anything within safe hunting distance on my side of the property line. If a deer came running through I knew I would be able to restrain myself and not shoot him, but I wasn't going to take that chance on some jerk I didn't know, so I ended up moving, and ruining my opening morning hunt. I think if you're setting up on a property line, you need to be ethical enough not to shoot on the wrong side of the line and ethical enough to move elsewhere if someone else sets up on the other side of the line earlier than they arrive. Its no different than my earlier example on the Waterfowl production area, when the second hunter/flashlight approaches, the second one needs to move along, public or private land, or else it becomes an unsafe hunt for both.

Have a good weekend! I think that I'm going to go build a couple of permanent stands so I can lay claim to all the hunting land around it! NOT!