Good OLD WLLSD

[OUTDOORNUT]

I know the overflows are due to the aging and underfunded WLSSD lines, but just wanted to report: AGAIN a 1/2 MILLION gallons of raw sewage that was dumped into our beloved fishing waters!

[This message has been edited by OUTDOORNUT (edited 03-30-2004).]

[Tom Linderholm]

That sucks, how many times a year upon year does this need to happen, when it comes to underfunded that should be no excuse for a city like ours who is willing to forgive millions of dollars in debt so that our wonderful aquarium (sarcasm) may barely cash flow for someone else. I think they are missing the big picture for our natural resources and wasting there money in the Great Lakes Petri Dish.
2cents

Tom

[Guest]

When did this happen? I haven't seen anything on the news but none the less this is not good.
It has to be done sooner or later, but to replace all the lines in Duluth would be an astronomical cost to the taxpayers as well as the G.L. Aquarium debt. is going to. A little less tourist fluff on Piedmont Ave. and they could replace a lot of them. I don't want to get political as to what your town does with the money but it is foolish most of the time. Think of all the things DEDA has spent money on and it spells.

D Doty's
E Economic
D Disaster
A Association

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en kala
(I fish)

www.todaystackle.com

[Tom Linderholm]

One more little bit I forgot to mention, Underfunded? is that why I pay out almost a hundred dollars a month just for my sewage bill? Maybe someone should forward this thread to the Papers and get a little poublicity out of it.

Tom

[OUTDOORNUT]

I see in today's rag, they (WLSSD) dumped another 36,000 gallon into Superior via the 60th Ave. E. station!

[lotalota]

I was down on the lakewalk around Chester Creek on Saturday and it stuck like a sewer...really stunk like a sewer. That must have been it. Totally repulsive. What is the point of having a nice lakewalk area if it stinks like sh!t and is covered with garbage along the shore (I even found a syringe complete with needle floating around). Yuck...

lota lota...

[Jackpine Rob]

You've just gotta love the priorities of those Duluth politicians and the voters who support them. So busy banning smoking to save the environment, banning ATVs to save the environment, stopping golf courses to save the environment, etc. while poop is discharged directly into the lake.
Yessiree!! Real environmentalists, aren't they?
I hope the EPA fines the living daylights out of the City and WLSSD, and each and every taxpayer in that screwed-up town is forced to pony up - until folks finally wise up and get some elected officials who will make this a priority. This issue has been around for decades, and still hasn't been resolved. Time's up.

[cashcrews]

Northlander is right on this one, it is not necessarily because of the mindset of all Duluth citizens that we have these issues.

Geography and geology play a big part in the problem, along with an aging infrastructure.

Obviously, something needs to be done about it, but for the taxpayers of Duluth to come up with all that money is unfair.

As for any of the comments on local politics; I think Duluth has a good number of fairly normal, sane, dare I say even "conservative" types of people. However, there is a highly vocal population of activist types around here that seem to have a lot of clout around City Hall.

[Animal]

Frozenminnow is on the right track about Doty. Doty ignored this problem and others like health insurance for city retirees for 12 years while chasing stupid projects like the Aquarium, Sprit Mountain Golf Course and the Boat Ramp. All these projects were narrowly focused and pandered to relatively few beneficiaries. Each projects has or would have had minimal economic impact or benefit for the citizens in general. All of these projects cost Duluth millions and may still cost even more. Who know how much staff time each cost. Now the citizens want expend energy and cash on the Ten Commandments. After watching city government haggle over and screw up one project after another I don't want them to advocate for my immortal soul. I'll trust the churches to do that.

Herb Bergson has it right when he says that fixing Duluth's sewers is the key to the city's future success. There are some federal and state funds available to help, but Duluth needs to put up the local share. Had money been put toward the sewers years ago there would be no problem with EPA and no overflows.

[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 03-30-2004).]

[Jackpine Rob]

Guys, the problem has been known for DECADES! I remember reading about this back in the early 1970's - about the same time the City of Duluth was carping about runoff from Miller Hill Mall.
As for infrastructure, I'm mystified why in the heck taxpayers from Albert Lea or Warroad or even Britt should have to fund the City of Duluth. Of course there are federal and state programs to help out, but the problem has been the City's for years, and apparently Duluthians have been just too busy regulating everything else to get around to dealing with a real problem.
Or are Duluth residents suggesting that everyone else should be responsible not only for their own sewers in their own towns but pay for Duluth's as well?
Sorry guys, but I have no sympathy left in this situation. There have been all sorts of large public works projects in that town dealing with the waterfront, Canal Park, Superior Street, condemning private property for "redevelopment" and such, but somehow, there is never enough cash to fix the sewers.
Duluth needs to quit whining, and start being a responsible neighbor to everyone who uses the lake. The current situation is intolerable, irresponsible, and just plain gross.
If a private industry was doing the same thing, I guarantee you the mayor and council and all of the usual suspects would be screaming bloody murder and demanding action.

[Northlander]

Jack I wish it was as simple as you see it. Maybe everyone who Duluth lets use the system should also pich in. The system was over worked and undersized for years and Duluth still let others jump on board. Its not just Duluth using the system but several surounding communitys too.
I however dont see how I should pay for past years stupidity even before I was alive! Yes I will pay my share but yes Mn. tax dollars that have been put into funds for these purposes should be used. Just like in many other communitys in the state. Maybe yours. Also Fed $ for these purposes should be used. If you dont like that its ok. You dont have to agree with me. I agree to diagree with you.

[musky hunter]

As the administrator of my companies MPCA and WLSSD discharge permits, I have periodic contact with WLSSD. I know first hand that WLSSD is well managed, and has many capable people working to manage the system. But they can only do so much. Duluth is trying to secure more funding to correct problems caused by an aging system. Blameing and fining is not the answer. In the grand scheme of things, only a very small amount of the total volume ever spills out of the system, and usually the damage is minimal. Case in point: the coliform outbreak last summer was mainly caused by waterfowl. Sewer system improvements are one of the mayor's top priorities. Hopefully, funding can be secured and the system further improved. Only infrastructure improvements will fix the problem, and they cost money. I'm all for the proposed holding basins because plugging the infiltration problems completely is impossible. Stay in contact with you're city councilors on this issue, that's the best rout to get something done.

[loadmaster]

Gotta jump in this one. Not saying anything bad, but just maybe a new director or something along those lines should be implemented. I was gone when the new plant was built, but I am sure it was designed for for so much raw sewage and run-off at the same time but they added so much more to the system it could not handle it. I am greatful that somebody forced the septic owners along the shore and areas such as pike/caribu lakes to hook up to the system but they should have to pay for it. The trouble is that I pay more for my sewage and my water usage. Take a look a Duluth bill and you will see all kind of hidden costs. If you ask me WWLSD is scam. No oversight by the city council or citezens. Look at the garbage problem the city will have in the near furture with WI location closing. This subject burns my butt>>>later the load

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T view Pictures click on link Fishing Photos

[Lowe]

I think the EPA is already forcing the city to fix the problem. Tough job for a city on a rocky hill to prevent stormwater from overflowing the way things are now. Maybe big overflow tanks to collect runoff at WLSSD might be the way to go versus ripping up all the lines. I'm not sure but I think Duluth is looking for some state or federal funds right now so they can get started.

[Northlander]

Jackpine are you saying all us who pay taxes in Duluth should have to pay for this mess? If so whats your reasoning on that one? Sounds to me like there should be some sort of relief funds somewhere. Raising our taxes in a area that already pays big taxes is rediculous!

[tman192]

Someone said all that raw sewage makes the walleyes grow really really big. I still think the next state record will come from the loui, and I hope I am the guy wrastlin with her.

[Surface Tension]

Kinda funny, we have all that fresh water that Superior supplies us but we flush our toilets into it also. The latest episode had sewage running onto the streets and into creeks and rivers along with what WLSSD let go into the St. Louis.
We've heard the talk of No more hookups to the system till it gets fixed. Nothings been fixed and were continuing burden the system. Plane and Simple, the City doesn't want to turn down revenue generated by new costumers. I say fine them good and rebate the money back to the homeowners. Your paying to have waste water treated not dumped.

[nunnu]

I say we find out who the bigwigs making these decisions to dump in the bay are, find out where they live and go sh!t on their porch.

[Northlander]

Musky Hunter is right the only solution is $ and Duluth dont have that kind of $. So either taxes go up or we get some sort of aid from someplace to fix this huge problem.
This isnt just 1 person or bussinesses problem its on several hundred peoples list. Everyone has known for years it needed to be fixed but couldnt generate the $ to fix it.
This topic "smells" Im going fishing.

[Guest]

The city of Duluth, has spent countless dollars on very useless things in the past, knowing for years of this overflow problem. This problem has existed long before the Aquarium, the Tech. Center,Bay front Park,the new Public Works Buiding, and the neumerious additions to the already outdated D.E.C.C. all of which were millions of dollars ill spent.
Big money spending should be put out to a vote of the people, not just to a council with the spine of an Eel Pout. Yes lobbying is definitely good, but so is weeding out dead weight in the city government to save money.
They can afford to give away 4 million to the debt of the Aquarium and now they don't have any money? What should have happened is that so much of the ticket sales would be put toward the sewer bill until the 4 mil. is paid back! Duluth is too concerned about putting too much into the tourism industry and forgetting the residents who pay for all of the unnecessary spending.
I bet somehow they still find a way to build a useless golf course at Spirit Mtn. though.

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Hey! My name isn't in the Obituary. Whoo hooo lets go fishing!
www.todaystackle.com

[This message has been edited by frozenminnow (edited 03-31-2004).]

[OUTDOORNUT]

S.T.'s remarks echo todays paper: Airpark Expansion, over 18,000 feet of Watermain and Sanitary Sewer to service over 47 acres of commerical and industrial lots! Awesome! Lets add even more intake, before we fix the overflow problems we have during the normal operation. One can only imagine how much more will be flowing over the river, down the hill, and right onto your fishing spot on the shore!

[Guest]

I agree with ST more hook ups till it's fixed simple as that. The tennants in the AirPark are generally; low waste generators being mostly wherehouse space. the real generators are the new Culdesacs popping up in every chunk of woods. At one time there were not as many homes on city sewage over the hill so the system was ok and as more are added, so is the increase in the chance of a problem because of an outdated system.

[Hooker]

I just find it real funny how these cities charge a little extra every month on you bill and tell you it's for up keep of the system BUT when NEEDED they always forget about that little extra they have been charging you and just raise it a little bit more, and a little more, and a little more, and a little more, and a little more, and a little more!!!! WHAT THE=TAKE IT ALL. Some people think we live and die the same day. I don't for get this kind of stuff because it really tic's me off every time they want that JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE... Sorry i kinda bluuuuuuue up.... But that little bit more just burns me......

[musky hunter]

I cannot believe the personal animosity being expresed on this forum. No on "makes a decision" to over flow. The happen spontaneously. They all have a specific cause, such as a ruptured pipe, a pump contorl failure, a down burst, etc, that burdens the system. Parts of the system may have been ok when installed but have deteriorated over time. When 50,000 gallons tries to go through a 10,000 gallon pipe, it overflows. Again, the solution is money to fix the system. It takes money, time, and engineering to do this. Rather than blatantly accusing and blaming personalities, why not become informed and start lobbying at the state legislature for the funding? Otherwise, our Duluth real estate taxes are going to go even higher.

[bwtrout]

i just moved into the congdon neighborhood. sounds like it will be quite awhile before the city makes it to my place. (yrs.) i think its safe to say that water and sewage is a big problem for most growing communities. i know ely has been/still is? in a simular situation. look at west central wisconsin, along the 94 cooridor. tons of new houses on five acre lots with mound systems filling in the farm land and large housing developments just outside city limits. i'm sure these will be a mess in time. i think the problems need to be addressed at a much higher level. the epa is a weak agency.

[A1000HOOK]

frozenminnow - You are right on the mark!!! Duluth needs people like you on the city council. People with common sense. I hope a member of the council reads this forum, and gives their input. A person can't raise a family here on the tourist jobs, $8 per hr. we need manufacturing jobs. There are companies that would move here, if the damm c/o Duluth would give incentives to start up here!!! For example look at Sioux Falls !!! This is a Hot Button issue for me and many other people!

[tie flyer]

So what can we do?

I value this forum because of the smart and energetic group we have. We know it's important to voice ourselves, but surely we also know that actions speak much louder than all of these words.

I live two blocks from Chester Creek. I walk my two dogs there every day, morning and night. On the way through the alley I'm just disgusted by the immense amount of trash that litters the ground. Because of the steep gradient that we inhabit, our streets and alleys are ultimately gutters. They flow right into the rivers and the lake. Chester Creek was mentioned earlier with regard to a fecal odor. Dog poop.

I drive down the street and invariably every day someone throws a cigarette butt out the window, as if willing it into the lake in that one simple (minded) act.

I'm not saying that I'm the best and I know we've got a conscious and conscientious group here. I confess that I only recently began picking up my dog's doo. It's not fun. It is the least that I can do and it's my responsibility. Again, I'm just a guy trying his hardest.

What else? The WLSD thing, well I made a point to visit their booth at the home show last night. I voiced some concerns and asked a lot of questions. What can I do? What are you doing?

One thing homeowners can do (aside from getting political) is to ensure that their houses have proper gutters that direct runoff away from the foundation. Some gutters actually drain directly into the sanitary sewer. Many basements flood this time of year and sump pumps send storm water through the sanitary sewers. Unnecessary volume, since storm water does not need to be treated.

I'm not trying to release anyone from responsibility. I know there's a lot of concern about the sanctity of our watershed here. I just hope we can instill such a sense of responsibility in our friends and neighbors.

If we show people that this is important to us, we'll have a lot more clout in dealing with the political side of it. (The REAL dirty part.

[This message has been edited by tie flyer (edited 04-01-2004).]