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Fishing


halad

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"If the human race wishes to have a prolonged and indefinite period of material prosperity, they have only got to behave in a peaceful and helpful way toward one another."

-- Winston Churchill

The past is the past, learn from it, move on and become better from its teachings.

To refresh my thoughts on this:

Quote:

Let’s all untangle our undies and look at this from an effective angle for the future. He said this and he said that is an easy thing to do when the chips are down. The point that interests me is when the walleyes went down in the first round everybody was pointing fingers in different directions looking for somebody to blame. Then out of nowhere we have crappies in every square inch of water and all is good again. Now that crappies are on a slow bite out comes the blame game. You know whose fault I think it is? Mine, just as much as it is yours, and just as much as it is the fisherman next to you, the one across the lake, down the road from you and even the ones from out of state. We all could have done things differently to achieve a better outcome that what we seen.

What’s done is done, we as an intelligent, reasoning and learning creature should be able to look back at each one of our own actions and say: “that was a bad decision, I shouldn’t do that again” we are all to blame for what happened, no amount of name calling or mudslinging will fix that, what will help to shape the future is learning from the mistakes made and coming to an civil, overall agreement on how to approach things the next time trouble is on the horizon. That does not get accomplished by badgering each other.

I would like to see one law across the lake, with no gray areas. I also want a million dollars and a private jet to fly to Bora Bora to fish Marlin. I would guess I will receive neither wishes. Currently many groups are working together to the best of their efforts to come to a solution to this problem. We don’t see that good news, only bad stuff makes headlines.

So let’s try to have a civil discussion that may generate some good ideas for the future. I really don’t care to see name calling, threatening quotes and statements about unethical practices, we are all better then that. Also remember that we are on-line in front of the whole world including children (yes many young ones frequent these pages) , the future leaders that will make the decisions when we have grown tired of fighting with each other. They don’t need to read a post full of mudslinging, young adults get enough of that in this world as it is.

And just to clarify that I am not shooting from the hip as an unkown guy from out of town. I lived through the walleye crash in Waskish/Upper Red Lake and watched as my friends, nieghbors and family slowly went broke and left my hometown in search of other methods to put food on the table, I myself had leave to make a living since nobody could find a solution, just blame each other.

With all that said what things will you do in the future to help?

Jon Petrowske


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As the dnr told my group and others who questioned it. This is the tribes perogative to throw the fish on the shore and it is thier fish not anyone elses. As far as theorys and judgements, well... I just don't see or even HEAR of any other group of people doing what the tribes are doing. If you know of some poachers doing this please call the tip line, other than that who else is netting???

Kelly, sorry the mille lacs and leech reference were just a netting reference since this is the subject. URL is a public lake on the eastern 1/3 isn't it still. Why do I have to live up there for my oponion to matter? You talk about that lake like you own it. I enjoy reading most of your posts and appreciate your reports on the lake but come on..Most lakes in the state are open to ALL people, it doesn't matter if you live a mile or 400 miles away. We All have a right to fish them equally and am entitled to the same rights as the guy who lives right on the lake.Just because I live near the twin cities doesn't mean I shouldn't have a say about a public lake a few hundred miles away. It's still in the wonderful state of MN.

mlps native, why can't ya just admit that netting is just plain wrong. You say you have a job and are a member of my society living down here, so why can't you just abide by the laws and rules like everyone else?? Why do you need the special treatment? Are you just that bad of a fisherman that you need nets? You can't get enough to feed your family with a rod and reel?

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If something does go wrong we'll be here trying to make it better. This is our home. Where will you be? On the next hot lake? Not many people cared about the Red Lakes in the 90's but we did. It was a lonely place but we stayed and worked at it. As we will in the future.

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Black max

I do have a job darn good one too.I aint no law breaker either.psst more stereotypes. I need no special treatment seems to me your the one in need of that.If I would have only took psychology in college instead I probly could have help.

Hey man you never asked about netting and what i think about it . You just asked about treaties and casino's that all.I'll answer I'm against netts for commercial reasons.But could change my mind if the band sets good standards.But like i said before i'm not a red lake band member.I accept that its there land and water and could do what hey want with it.The band never ceded this area you should look this up in your history book.There for state has no control over.

And as far as me being a good fisherman i could out fish you anyday.I'v caught more fish than you ever lied about. Thats just a line from grumpy old men.

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Never accused just asked also never called you whitty.Are you that kid from leave it to beaver?

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Ok we are all going fishing together.

I will load all you guys in my boat, I have room for six. I have the technology and with the proper permission from the Red Lake Nation I’ll put the starboard side on reservation water and the port on the open side and we will talk about what side is doing better but every time somebody slings mud or gets disrespectful there going to get slapped in the back of the head with an eight foot musky rod by the captain. I have heard enough. It will be like the time I took the boy scouts out, everybody was mad with the other one until they looked around and realized they are all in the same boat and if they all wanted to catch fish they better start making friends, working together and finding solutions to the differences, or nobody gets fish with all the ruckus going on.

Funny thing is those boys figured out they were getting nowhere in roughly five minutes.

Enough with the name calling.

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I'm only having fun i aint tried to dispected any body.I tried to answer his questions but he dont seem to like answers.

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I'm not directing this towards any one person but you guys are all smart guys, you have put some very good points in text but nobody will pay attention to your ideas when name calling starts.

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  • 'we have more fun' FishingMN Creators

Before anyone posts again, please be sure you are familiar with and agree to follow forum policy. If anyone wants to discuss race issues or throw out a race card this in not the forum for it. Attacks and argumentative behavior is unwelcome here as well. Let's also try to stay on topic.

This is a very interesting discussion with a number of insights and very welcome opinions handled maturely.

Thanks much, I and many others appreciate you.

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We all have to remember one thing concerning the future of walleyes in the Red Lakes. Sportfishermen have part, the Red Lake Nation has part. The walleyes will move back and forth. We do not have multiple options, we have 2 options.

#1 Work together and try our best to make it work.

#2 Fight, and die seperately.

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I love the 8000 dollar to much line.....

If there are 4 million tax payers in minnesota (Probally alot more} that works out to about .002 cents per person.

Hey heres a dollar Lets stock 500 more lakes...

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Eight grand is just a drop in the bucket. Heck, Kelly probably makes that in an afternoon. grin.gifgrin.gif

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The dollar amount really is an important point to note. Consider the total number of walleyes we will be allowed to harvest as sport fisherman. Twenty grand is a drop in the bucket for the amount of work, number of fish, and number of years this stocking program has required. I'm actually really excited about the opportunity to take a couple of my kids up there for the afternoon, and have the potential to return with 6 nice walleyes and several nice crappies for an easy days fishing. Much like the old days.

Here's a thought I introduced to the head of fisheries of the MN DNR just the other day - just to keep this thread interesting. It occured to me, and perhaps it's been considered before, but what if we were to utilize the natural geographic land barrier between Upper and Lower Red lakes?

What I'm suggesting is an attempt to purchase the remainder of Upper Red Lake from the bands. The "gap" between the two lakes could be netted or a fish barrier could be put in place. The bands could manage Lower Red to their desire, and we could manage Upper Red to ours.

Of course, as our DNR fisheries head stated, the bands would not likely ever let this property go, but why not try? We also discussed the possibility that the bands would open the entire body of water to sport fishing. The potential revenue generated by the fishery could then also flow over to the communties on the lower half of Lower Red Lake. As it is very little money is seen in these communities.

These are just some ideas. I suppose it's a lot like trying to buy the land under Fort Knox, and asking the Gov'mt to leave the contents of the building as a buyers incentive. But if we had a special "sporting goods" tax, or something like that, I bet we could eventually purchase back this land and at least Upper Red Lake. I'd really love to find out what's on the other side of this lake! And the overall cost per tax payer really isn't worth the time to argue about. It's pennies per person.

Drink one less beer each year, and you can enjoy great walleye fishing for the rest of the season!

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Ok I have a question if what was said about other lakes about fish being tossed on shore that they didnt want if that happens on red I would think there needs to be something done to stop that or money given to the dnr for the fish they would be killing I am part indian my grandmother was sioux but I hope people would not waste fish like that on any lake 90% of the time when I go fishing its catch and release I just have fun fishing iceman vaxilar/king n I have fished red for a few years now and we work our butts off on finding fish but most of the big fish go back its just fun catching them we have had 2 good years finding fish with some help from kelly p n ty for for it the 1 thing I would never want to see is other fish being tossed on shore cuz they are not eyes if that happened the state would need to do something

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When walleyes get caught in the gill net they wont fight hard to get away they could be caught by just a tooth and will just sit there and awate their fate. Northerns are different they will fight the net and will roll themselves up in it and die. Gill netting will bring about the demise of the great northern fishing.

Maybe the Band could be paid not to net the upper lake. They could still fish it with hook and line and the white man still couldnt go on their water.

I have hope that they will vote to not net the upper lake . I think there is a chance.

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Here’s my two-cents – maybe two-dollars (tee-hee!). I think that any time fish are netted there will be some incidental mortality. If you go back and read all the recent posts here (on the three or four threads) from our Native American neighbors they certainly don’t seem the type to condone wanton waste or netting. Quite the opposite!

If you read Native American history everything illustrates that Native Americans are stewards of natural resources – not rapers and plunderers. If other posts are correct white man started the commercial fishery on Red Lake and white man feeds the demand by eating those twenty-five dollar fish dinners. Who is to blame? Is there blame?

I don’t think this is a Slob thing? Like catching Dolphins in Tuna nets, there are going to be some Northerns in the Walleye nets. It is/was a Commercial Fishery – so it poses problems sport anglers never need to face. You pull a live Northern out of the gill net and back it goes. But what DO you do with the dead fish that nobody will buy when your personal freezer is full and the family has eaten so many fish they are begging for a hamburger? They can’t sell them on the black market or we’ll be bashing them for it. So they toss ‘em like the dead Dolphins I guess?

With slot limits all of us have caught and released fish that we knew were going to die because they were hooked too deep, caught too deep, were bleeding all over the boat from ripped gills or floated away with a mouthful of air bladder. Oddly enough we release them to protect the resource! We don’t have to be keeping track of those fish and sending the DNR five bucks for every one we kill either.

We have options – We could go barbless, we could set the hook faster, we could use special circle hooks, we could stay home, we could do a number of things to help reduce mortality but most of us don’t. Maybe (and I hope the DNR doesn’t read this!) if there were a twenty-five dollar ‘Barbed Hook Fish Stamp’ more of us would pinch those barbs closed rather than pay the twenty-five bucks? We all got some dirt on us! Like Ogema said earlier, the Native Americans never fished for sport – catching and releasing – and in the process killing some of them. Sport Fishing is a white man invention. If we look at the incidental mortality in the entire state of Minnesota who do you think kills more fish by accident – Sport fishermen or Commercial netters? I have no numbers but I’ll bet it is Sport Fisherman by thousands and thousands of pounds! Think about it!)

Gill nets are not surgical instruments - innocent bystanders are going to get caught up and die. It isn’t pretty – just like making hot-dogs isn’t pretty! (What is mechanically separated chicken anyway?) Nobody likes to watch baby seals being clubbed to death but there is a market for them. Ever been to a slaughterhouse? Taking live things and turning them into groceries, or fancy jackets, on a commercial scale isn’t pretty – it’s a harvest!

(trouble28) We don’t make farmers pay the DNR for Pheasants they accidentally kill when they harvest, plow, plant, cut, rake, and bale why charge commercial fishermen? Stuff Happens!

We need to trust the Natives, take incidental mortality into account when setting quotas, and work with them to take care of the resource as best we/they can. Some ‘Dolphins’ are going to die in the netting process. Maybe, like Halad suggests, the band will vote to (Contact US Regarding This Word) nets. That would be good for sport fishing - maybe we can make the trade. Like I said in my original post, maybe we should have already made this decision sometime in the past six years!

Perhaps someone with gill netting experience – or someone with friends who net - can illuminate. How much of a problem has incidental mortality been? Do we want to know? What happens to those incidental fish? What is the Tribe's official position? Ogema? MplsNative? N8tv? Anybody?

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One thing that the netters don't talk about is the other things that get caught in the nets. Back in the early 80's we would drive by the west side of lower Red on the res.There was a sign on the road by the small fishing shacks advertising walleyes for sale. We stopped there once to check it out. They had just come off the lake from netting. They were sorting out there catch. I saw walleyes,whitefish, northerns,perch,and some fish I didn't recognize. At the end of the sorting table was a large box. I walked over to the box and peaked in. I saw at least 25 loons,100 bluebills, and several other species including goldeneyes, buffleheads, mergansers, and ringbills. Nets do damage to the populations of waterfowl also. When we were there the natives tried to sell us everything they could think of deer, moose, even elk.I remember the prices were $50 for a deer, $500 for a moose, and $1000 for a bull elk.This type of black market activity will go on and will not be counted in any quota.I've heard stories of native fisherman selling fish even recently of fish netted out of Mille Lacs.The question is how wide spread this will be when they start netting again on Red. I doubt that there will be enough law enforcement by the tribe to stop this.That reservation is a big area and I think they can get away with about anything they want there.

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Yeah they are going to take a vote it'll be up to the people if they are going to nett or not.I also dont think they want to see the lake ruined just as much as the next guy.That lakes valuable to them too.

That thing about fish just being left on shore I'm not to sure about that.I've talk to natives from the lake mentioned. I was told they never herd of stuff like this happening my step dads from there so he also should know.I dont think that tribe wants to throw fuel on the fire of an already touchy issue.

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I dont know any tribes offcial position on this since i'm not a netter nor have i ever have been.I do know in the old days nothing went to waste but i'm sure this practice aint always use.

Just something I wanted to add On the duluth tread I read the DNR is going to allow netting of lake trout in lake Superior.I wonder If any body is going to care about that.I also wonder if they got netts were nothing else is caught but targeted fish.Maybe they will let you know what you want to know I dont think these are natives.

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Quote:

Back in the early 80's


Key words, "Back in the early 80's" All of us up here have learned alot since the 80"s

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Jerk Bait, finally somebody out there who knows the truth about what goes on and is willing to talk about it. I have seen with my own eyes the dead fish at the fishing camps on the North shore. One netter who is not ethical can do a lot of damage with 5-miles of gill net.

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Quote:

who is not ethical can do a lot of damage


That is the key to all of this from both sides. Find a cure for that and we would not and will not have a problem.

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Jon and Kelly, I commend you for looking to the future and on the positve side of things. I know alot has changed since then. I was just telling the facts that I know.I hope that we all have learned from our mistakes on both sides of the water. I think that restraint needs be used on both sides of the line. I was just pointing out that nets don't discriminate. Anything that swims into them are caught. I do believe enforcement on upper will be way more strict than on the lower lake.I also think commercial fisherman have a bigger lure for cheating the system than do sport fisherman.$$$$$ vs. Fillets... I also think a fish has more value to the economy if it's caught by a hook rather than a net. I would be afraid to tell my wife how much I "paid per pound" for the couple af meals of fish we have.Those dollars have to go somewhere and benefit more than a few.

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Ethics-something both sides have to look at. If URL is going to remain a super fishiery we have to start by doing whats right in our own practices. I've fished with people who's goal is to catch there limit. Thats way to much stress for me. If i don't catch a fish on an outing its still a good day, if i catch one its a better day. As far as fish hooked to deep-the jig is cheap,cut the line,the hook will rot away pretty quick. There will always be some mortallity rate in releasing fish but I beleive it can be lowered with a little common sense. I fish URL a few times every year and have a great time every time I go regardless if i catch fish or not, its the adventure not final results.

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There was these fish called the "sheephead" that I heard were left to waste. The rough fish were the ones, I guess. Never the "good fish".

I also asked about the camps you referred to, and was told yes back in the 60's & 70's people did put up signs and sell some of their fish. The first thought that popped in my head, is that it couldnt have been more different than a farmers market? Maybe I am wrong...?

I dont like the idea af wasting, my kids will tell you that, or littering. I have seen fish dumped at our local trash collection sites, but they were northern, that had the fillets taken off.

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I hope that the Band votes not to net. From the survey results I'm encouraged. But we have to realize that we have no say in the matter. No matter what we do or say it is THEIR choice. All we can be is bystanders hoping for what we feel is the best, it's the hand we were dealt. We might not like it but that's the way it is. All of us on both sides of the "Line" are being giving a 2nd chance. Maybe we don't deserve it but we are getting a 2nd chance with the experience we learned before. We could be sitting here with a lake full of sheepshead. frown.gif The DNR from MN and the DNR from the Red Lake Band working together have brought the walleyes back. We should be happy about that. We should be concerned about the future but it doesn't do us any good argue or fight about what we as sportsmen have no say in. Right now we do not even know IF the Red Lake Band will net again. We will not know until after the vote. From what I hear it sounds like it will be a close vote. I have more at stake then most people reading this Forum butI am not any more concerned about enforcement on the Bands side of the lake then I am about enforcement on this side of the lake. Right now I think the Red Lake Band is controlling things a lot tighter then we are. When I heard what the penalties were over there for having a walleye it became very clear to me that that is REALLY another country. If anyone is caught with a walleye it isn't any slap on the wrist over there, it's alot tougher then we are. They know what the effects of netting are, we don't have to tell them. All we could accomplice with pointing fingers, arguing and railing on about it is to swing the vote. If we go into this with a bad attitude Band Members could vote just to prove to us that we do not tell them what to do. Sit back, relax and wait for the vote. Other then talk about it it's all we can do. There is nothing that we could tell The Red Lake Band that they do not already know.

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You know after reading almost all the posts in this thread, one thought strikes me: you all realize that they could have decided to gillnet the crappies instead of doing anything else? heck I am really surprised that they didn't net the crappies. At least we got to enjoy that for the time being, and while the crappies will never go away, they will be reduced to a status like present on something like Leech lake. Where there is a good walleye population and pockets of modest amounts of very nice sized crappies.

I am looking forward to some walleyes in 06, had fun with the crappies and I expect I'll still get a few of them too. One of father's favorite sayings was "life's not fair" I think fits this whole discussion.

heres to tight lines!

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Brianf.
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    • CigarGuy
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