Guides' Rules

[gunflint]

I'm in the process of updating my web page and info sheet for the upcomming season. I was wondering what some of the other guides have for rules and guidelines. I only have a few:

1. If you can't keep the kids under control, we're going in.

2. The clock starts at the agreed upon time, not when you get there, if you're late.

3.No Uglysticks in the boat.

4. If you break one of my Loomis's (by carelessness) it's $50.

5. We don't keep my fish.

Any other ideas?

[Hibbing]

What do you have against Ugly Sticks?

[eskay]

no bananas in the boat- bad luck.

[FOOT]

I use to talk to a guide out of Bowen Lodge on Winnie that had one hard and fast rule, any walleye over 20 inches goes back except for a 30 incher. The reason being a 30" eye most likely in a 10lber and the client can keep it to hang it on the wall.

Then the slot limit came in to play and that changed things a little.

Darn good guide and practiced C&R long before it has become so popular.

[Gus]

My gut reaction to your rules tells me you are not likely to be fun to fish with, maybe like a cranky old man who just doesn't want to deal with anybody. I'm sure that is far from the truth but if I were looking for a guide and saw those rules I might think twice about booking with you. I don't mean to give you a hard time or anything like that, I am just trying to offer some feedback from a customer's viewpoint and those were my thoughts when I read the rules.

[FOOT]

Gus, I'm sure Gunflint doesn't need me sticking up for him but I think most of the rules he states are realisatic.

1. Keeping the kids under control is important for the safety of themselves and others. In addition, nobody wants their boat wrecked or ruined by some kid for nothing more then being out of control.

2. If a trip is booked to start at 10am and run for 6 hours then thats the time. A person should not expect to start at 10:30 and still get in a full 6 hours. Some guides run 2 or more groups a day so why should one be allowed to hold everything up.

3. No ugly sticks - dont understand this rule

4. I can understand breaking a rod and the person that does so should pay for it out of common courtisity.

5. I would agree I don't want the guide keeping his fish but then again I don't want him fishing either. I'm renting him to put ME on fish not himself.

[Ralph Wiggum]

The way they are stated make you sound a little harsh, but wording them differently would make them sound a lot better. I agree that they're fair rules.

[marine_man]

I think the rules should be re-written as they come off a little harsh... but your version clearly conveys your intent...

What's the deal with the ugly stick?

marine_man

[S.D. Ice Angular]

Yeah!!

What is up with the Ugly Stick rule?

[Bobb-o]

Why not have the guide fishing too? They can try out different patterns, colors, etc. while trying to see whgat the fish are biting on. The ugly stick rule doesnt make any sense though. If i was gonna be guiding some kids they wouldnt be getting a G. Loomis in their hands thats for sure.

[jerkin'm]

I think the no ugly stick rule is the best one on there.. Apparently some people don't get it...That rule is the first one in my boat..

[gspman]

The 20"/30" rule is a good rule.

[gunflint]

Everyone is correct the rules do come off as harsh, although I don't have them in writting I go over them diplomaticaly when we set up the trip. And yes! We discuss CPR vs eaters and what the client wants to do with a big fish before we hit the water.

The kid thing is a saftey issue and if there's an unruley kid on board we aren't going to catch any fish anyway. And your just wasting my time and your money. On the other hand I have allowed several kids to use the Loomis's, not every kid but alot of kids are out there to learn and if they seem truely interested and attentive, why not.

I do fish for a while most of the time. Once we get on fish I stop because I'm usually to busy. It should be stated that most of my clients would fall into the occasional angler catagory and not advanced anglers. So most want to learn techniques as well as catch fish.

Boy I seem to have hit a nerve with the Ugly Stick thing. Here goes. Most of the Ugly Sticks that the clients bring on board just don't have the sensitivity needed for finessing walleyes especialy for a beginner. I think they're great for pulling up anchors and sticking into ceiling fans but I've seen alot of rookies miss fish because they couldn't feel them. (Donning flame retardant suit)

[Dennis Steele]

Quote:

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I think they're great for pulling up anchors and sticking into ceiling fans

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LOL

Theyre pretty good cat rods, but I would guess your not fishing for those!

I have a rule in my boat when guiding, for myself , as well as for clients.

No alcohol.

For a cat guide, it might seem a little wierd, but it just can become bad news and safety can be an issue.

[DougSpringBay]

'Flint makes a great point on the Ugly Sticks, and I give kuddos for allowing them to use the Loomis's. They want a quality fishing experience, and fishing with junk is not part of that. Sorry all ugly stick fans about the "junk" comment. I am a Techna AV fan myself.

As for the guide fishing--- Having a line in the water does not always catch the fish. When guiding, and my guests catch the first walleye's, my first question is how did they take the bait? A lot of inexperienced fisherman don't even know what to feel for. The bite changes from day to day and sometimes hour to hour. By fishing myself, I can determine the small variations in bite and presentation that it takes to catch the fish.

As for hard and fast rules in my boat:

NO ALCOHOL.

YOU MUST WEAR YOUR PFD AT ALL TIMES THE BOAT IS UNDERWAY BY POWER OF THE OUTBOARD.

NO SMOKING, (Sorry, I sell my boat every year in October, and carpet burns are not a selling point)

WE ARE OUT HERE TO HAVE FUN, LETS MAKE SURE THAT WE DO.

DOUG

[garytheguide]

.....alot of rules need not be explained...when kids show up...they wear jackets...and no standing up suddenly while moving....otherwise sometimes the rules change from person to person..i like people to use my stuff...then i can see excactly what is biting thehook and how big the fish is when they are reeling...many times i know someone has a bite before they do....kids get the shakespeare....everyone else st. croix or fenwick....i try to discourage the zebcos...ugly stix and such...ecspecially when someone shows up with a handful they havent used in ten years or something..if fishing is slow...i give my fish......i am the absolute captain of the ship...but i think most people expect that to be the case....i get a good return biz because of the fact i have confidence in what ido and i let the people know that it is their time and money being spent....the biggest rule is...lets fish hard and go set the hook!!!!!!

[Gus]

Foot, I can understand all the rules and why to have them. I probably didn't get my point across as well as I would have liked. What I was trying to get at was pretty much what Ralph said. "The wording seems to harsh" If I were to read them on a website exactly like they were written I'd be looking for other guides, yet I do understand the rules and why he has them. It's just my opinion on the matter and I'd thought I would try and help out with it. I don't want anyone to lose business because something as silly as "harsh words" drove business away.

[Random guy]

NO SUNFLOWERER SEEDS! PERIOD!I hate those things in the carpet and flying around when your driving.

As far the rod sitaution I finaly just stated ~ "If you do not have sufficent equipment for fishing large muskies I will supply you with the neccasary equipment to do so. I keep many rod and reel combos in my boat and ready for use by my clients."

After a couple of years of clients showing up with walleye rods set up with heavy line I made up some combos to help a customer stay hooked to a large fish and it put an end to fiberglass/graphite chunks flying from broken rods,and it opened the door for many first time musky fisherman that later became steady clients.

[Dave]

Quote:

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The kid thing is a saftey issue and if there's an unruley kid on board we aren't going to catch any fish anyway. And your just wasting my time and your money.

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I'm all for safety! The kid must have to be pretty unruley for you to head to shore but, if you decide to, I would expect a refund for the unused time. What's unruley to you may be normal for another.

[Guest]

I would rather pay to go fishing with a harsh old man that keeps ducks in a row, than spend a tedious day babysitting over-zelous kids, or just as bad, a drunk. I'm out there to catch fish, not have a day of frustration... and I know the guide has the same mind-set.

I like the origional unwritten rules the way they were.. strait to the point with the customers best interest in mind.. going out and catching some fish. You are paying for a service. Its best to let the service provider decide how things are going to work and concentrate on providing the best service possible under their control, in their conditions.

As for ugly sticks.. I understand the rule. They are junk if the fish dont inhale the bait and hook themselves.

[FM_Mike]

To all the guides, what is your opinion on your clients bringing a GPS with them and marking the spots you have taken them to? I imagine this could be a big issue. Although I have never used a Guide service, I know your experience is worth every penny. Hate to see you give up your spots to others. Just my thoughts.

[gunflint]

I'll be honest here. I don't like it at all. That being said, on my lake the fish move around alot so what's working today may not work tomorrow. But I also make part of my living by knowing the right spots at the right time. If I think you're marking my spots, Particularly if you have a rigged out boat and are going to be on the lake for a week or 2 we might catch alot more smallies than walleyes.

You also have to keep in mind that I guide on a 440 acre lake. If I was on one of the factories it may not bother me as much because of the large number of good spots available.

[garytheguide]

...gps is fine with me...you are paying me to know where to go, and if thats how you need to know it then that is how it is...i like to see people fish the spots i took them to...means they got what they wanted...and i also tell them not to be shy when they see me out on the lake later with other clients....i figure the more people to banter with the better....i really enjoy talking to people in other boats ...ecspecially other guides....i i can take it too!!!!...i also like to expand my return clients horizons....and yes i do mark maps...i do have the luxury of alot of water to work with...and do pride myself on knowing most of vermilion well...wish it was open water !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jigginjim]

Gunflint, I do know how you feel. I would rather kids not eat lifesavers while fishing. I had one youngster almost choke on one out in the boat. I ended up feeding the fish (CHUMMING) . As for the ugly sticks, I haven't and will never fish with one, well maybe the catrod. Other wise they have no feel for the very lite biters. I furnish all rods for my guide trips most are St.criox rods. If you have a favorite rod you may bring it. Leave the tackle box at home. If you would like I can show how to fish baits you may have. Sorry no banjo minnows. I have almost any type of lures you may have. I even furnish the equipment for musky trips. I fish minnetonka its large enough that we don't worry about the secret spots. As for the beer I would rather the guys bring water or pop if they need bubbles. I just don't want to end up on the news if a guy had 1 beer and falls in. You know the story thats's the first thing to come up. Were they drinking? Besides if you want to go drinking why sit in a boat we have all those striper bars to go to. LOL "BOOBYS" as homer says.

I fish with my clients to show them how to do things. Some guys i have had to have either never been or haven't fished in some time. I have even shown youngster how to fish lindy rigs. I just talk a kid through that. We very seldom keep fish, but they want, we will. I'm not always going to bring a fillet knife, may the chain saw.

Just want my clients to have fun, share some laughs, and maybe we could learn from each other. Oh ya catch fish!!!!

[lanyard]

I'm no guide, but I think the rules fit pretty good in any boat. Setting limits on the front end, regardless of range, makes for less bruised feelings and egos. Seen too many situations where people go out fishing and come back wishing they would have left the other one attached to the anchor.

In some cases, I wish some of the guys I know would upgrade to the Ugly Sticks... but the more fish they miss with the Wally World Reel Deal the more I skunk their hinders on the water.

[Wayne Ek]

Just got back in-town from the CSI show, so I'm late on this one.

First rule: No alcohol in the boat.

Second rule: PFD's on when big motor is being used.

I usually will not fish when I'm guiding. I will break a rod out to demonstrate a technique, or if my clients are not catching anything, and I feel confident that we are on fish, then I will catch one. I have great equipment for my clients to use, but if they want to bring their own equipment thats fine, ugly stick and all. If a client gets in the boat and wants to fish walleyes by tossing a moss boss into pads, I tell them we probably will not catch any walleyes, but if that's what they want, then it's their day, so that's what we will do. I have no problem with gps that my clients bring, and will mark their maps for them. It's all about having a fun day, learning something and hopefully catching some fish. I started to quide full time in 1999, spending about 4 days on the water each week during the soft water period, have not been skunked on a trip yet

[rich4walleyes]

I was at the CSI show also. What are your thoughts on the whole thing. I am not sure too many people liked it. There was alot of stuff to see that's for sure.

[196thDLR]

I do understand your rules, but, I think a little more tact should be used if you are going to post them on a web site. A very well known guide from the GR area has stated many times, that if you use a Zebco R&R or a Ugly Stick, you may as well be using a pool cue to fish with. The feel is about the same with the edge going to the pool cue. Personally, I would add No Cell Phones!!

[Ranger sport]

I just wanted to know if you guides check for a fishing license before you take a client out fishing? Can a guide get a fine if his clients don't have a license?

[Wayne Ek]

Rich4walleyes: a number of the smaller dealers seemed quite upset at missing out on a Oct. spring show. No product for x-mass time. Alot said it was to big and time consuming, as they had to close the shop to attend the show.

Back to the tread. I check for a license, the quide does not get the ticket, the client will. But it still makes for a poor trip.