DNR Motives

[Quackaddict9]

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Quackaddict9, unless I misread the front page article in the Jan. 20 issue of outdoor news, I think the natives will be allowed 4.5 lbs. of walleye per acre or 1.06 million lbs.

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really? I dont know, but if you look at one of the new topic under URL forums on here, it said something like 408,000 lbs (natives of Red Lake) and 80,000 lbs for statewide. I dont know, I'll just wait for the facts. Thanks though

edited-- look under RED LAKE MEETING

[memyself@I]

Nothing like a bunch of mis-information and the us against them blah blah blah. FACT: When the walleye population crashed on Red Lake the Tribe discontinued commercial fishing after many many decades. Think about the jobs lost and income for band members and the courage to say enough-we have to stop for now and for maybe 10 years even and get this lake back. THEN lets work with the state, tribe, feds, upper red lake assn etc etc to reach a common goal: Bring Red Lake back.

And so they did and do you know what one of the steps was? STOCK WALLEYE FROM THE DNR PIKE RIVER HATCHERY NEAR LAKE VERMILLION!!! because genetically very similar to Red Lake walleye strain. And everyone pulled together and made sacrifices and worked hard to bring the lake back. They worked TOGETHER not us versus them.

And now the lake is back. Like it or not the reality is RED LAKE TRIBE IS A SOVERIGN NATION to you and I another nation. Thats the fact Jack and disliking that is wasting time it simply is what it is. So they govern themselves, have their own laws etc etc etc. They also have a lot of pride and pride is a mysterious thing. But they have all chosen to keep a long standing law intact-that the lake and land is closed. And thats their CHOICE AND LAW if you agree or disagree it just doesn't matter.

You really concerned about Red? Then worry about milfoil and zebra mussels getting introduced with all the open water traffic. Ask the DNR why game wardens aren't stationed in Waskish like they used to be and why they drive from too far and/or do occasional sweeps instead of full time on ice/water. Turn in violators who overfish, keep walleyes when its closed etc. Pick up trash on the ice. Be an ethical sportsmen/sportswomen. Set an example. Quit wasting time and energy and suggesting an us versus them........because the lake (Contact US Regarding This Word) near died when we didn't work together and when we worked together look whats happened.

Quit

[WigglinMyWorm]

Very well put.....it's been a group effort..everyone talks about how it could have been such a spectacular crappie lake....there is a reason why there is maily one year class of crappie in the lake and thats because the conditions have to be just right for a great spawn.....Red could never sustain itelf as a crappie lake what happens when all these 11 year old crappie die and there is no other age classes to grow up.....everyone would be complaining cause we didn't bring the walleyes back....people just will never be happy with what they got.....They have a great lake with a good amount of walleye, crappie and northerns.....and a great bunch of locals that have treated everyone like they were at home.........Thankyou DNR....Thankyou Red Lake Indian Tribes........and Tankyou Locals...for making this the best all around fishery in Minnesota!!!!! It was a great team effort and hopefully US sportsman don't screw it up.

[Ogema]

Hey Folks, intersting posts on here, I should introduce myself, I am a 30 year old member of the Red Lake Nation, who has never set a net, although I have helped the family fish camps, and gotten my fingers poked up from takig out fish, and made a few dollars by hanging the nets up to dry.

It is nice to see that some people realize what happened has happened and are ready to move on and do it right this time around.

I am sad to see that some people pretend to know whats best for us. Some say open it up to resorts, let us on and we'll help you out financially. I have a hard time believing this, because why would you care about our finances? Our health as a community?

I was at the meeting here the other night, and it is going to be up to a vote by the people what direction we will take on our side. Based on overall meetings I attended, this side of the lake will never be open to sportsfishing. Right now our beautiful lake is clean and not all full of milfoil and all that other crap, that is a result of some knuckleheads not cleaning off their boats, when going from lake to lake.

Alot of people where right with their posts on here, and it was nice to read that, it is people like that that will ensure a healthy lake for future generation, and it is knuckleheads like they spoke about that are too GREEDY, and take what they shouldnt, that will ruin it for the rest of us.

Red Lake is a beautiful place all around, you guys know that from going to Upper Red all these years, it is as close to "the way it was" when everything was in harmony and balance

Respect that and the lake will respect you.

P.S. not all of Red Lake is poor...just like all towns theres ups and downs, all you read about in the papers is the negative...Peace

[LABS4ME]

Thanks for the post Ogema, welcome to FM! Stop in time to time and post any info you care to share... I think you nailed it on the head...

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Red Lake is a beautiful place all around, you guys know that from going to Upper Red all these years, it is as close to "the way it was" when everything was in harmony and balance

Respect that and the lake will respect you.

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Good Luck!

Ken

[ozzie]

Ogema- Welcome to FM. Glad to hear your thoughts.....I guess when stated the "finances part" would come through straight business generated through the Lower Red Access and other businesses that would be able to open or flourish. I personally would have no problem dishing out $100-$200 for a day of fishing just for the experience!! But that is that. I have a question for you. Is there alot of fishing pressure on Lower Red at this current time and has there been much pressure in the last 8 or so years? I know the crappies have to be in lower like they are in upper and was just wondering if there were alot of pressure on the crappies? Thanks in advance. Just curious as to the situation on Lower cause I never hear much about it.

[Random guy]

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Respect that and the lake will respect you.

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I must agree Ogema!

[slimy]

Ya know Ogema, we shoud get out and fish sometime, I get to hear both sides of this issue, my brother taught at the Red School House in St. Paul and made friends with several band members and I periodiclly attend a Upper Red Lake Assoc. meeting, the band side and the this side are all in the same boat, certain faction on each side will never trust each other and will never get over the past, be it the walleye collapse or other political issues while others want to move on and make this thing work for both sides. Red Lake was commercially fished and sport fished for nearly 100 years but when technoligy over took what the lake could sustain we were forced into this timeout period for both sides and I hope we all learned from it. If we follow the rules and limits we should be able to fish this baby for generations like it should be.

[Ogema]

Hello Fellas, thanks for the welcome. Sometimes I drive around that way and look out in the forest and say " I bet humans have never been in parts of these areas" I also get the cold shoulder alot, when going that way, from some fisherman, who were (Contact US Regarding This Word) and asked me if I wanted to see their stringers. As if I am the one they gotta face judgement day. Crazy. It is just that I had never seen the upper Red until Spring of 2003!! Imagine that!!

As far as pressure on this side, I would say not at all, there are a few fishermen out there doing their thing, catching alot of nice perch, where I live, which is the shores of the south, southwest, by little rock creek. Other than that the lake has been very quiet, it amazes me when I go on trips to the metro area and see all these tiny lakes just full of boats, jetskis, people water skiing, and when i look out on our lake, it's quiet, peaceful and huge!!

I know people would pay to fish here, and we got potential with resorts and stuff, I would love to open a lil bed n breakfast and take people fishing on some of the smaller lakes around here that we can right now, theres awesome fishing in those as well.

But the overall view by the majority of people that are voicing their opinion is that they don't want sportsfishing, or resorts. In my opinion alot of this has to do with what happened in past dealings with "well-wishers" like the state, the army corps fo engineers, even back to the cavalry days. We didn't always get the best of any of the deals we entered into, but the one thing we still have is that lake, and it was left to us because our Chiefs called it their "warehouse", you know when they first set us up as a reservation they had these warehouses, for food and clothing, they said that lake is our warehouse, when we are hungry we go out there.

So understand why there is such strong feelings about keeping it "closed". Most people figure we got it right now, so why change anything? Plus theres alot to take into consideration, with the status of the lakes and their cleanliness now.

I have flown over alot of the lakes between here and the Metro and see alot of green stuff on some, but when I saw the Red's it was bark blue, I am no biologist but it didnt look right to see the green stuff in the lakes...what is that stuff??

[Sutty]

Not being a biologist I'll still take a crack at answering your question on the green stuff. The green stuff you are reffering to is mostly algae blooms. Caused by either farm run-off or lawn fertilizer that is not absorbed and runs off when it rains. I know lake groups are trying to clean many up, I am not sure of what success they have had. Differant blends of fertilizers have come out hopefully that will help.

Glad to see you online,

Sutty

[ozzie]

Thanks for the reply Ogema. I bet there are alot of people in your community that battle with how the future should be molded. Tough decisions no doubt. It definatly would be fun to go out and fish some of the lakes you speak of and there would be a good market one would think for a business of that sort. If they did decide to open it up, which it doesn't sound like they are for understandable reasons, I would be your first customer guranteed. Thanks for your reply and keep checking in with FM community and adding your thoughts and updates anytime. Good Luck and Good Times!!!

[moose099]

Ogema,

Migwitch, for your thoughtful and knowledgeable comments. Lower and part of Upper Red Lake is YOUR WAREHOUSE, preserved it, cherish it and protect it. The old one's had the foresight to know that if the Band had the lake, they would never go hungry.

Labs,

You did a fine job of putting past and present into perspective. Greed on both sides of the line, did the lake in. Let's hope with the New Beginning, we have all learned a lesson.

[kelly-p]

Welcome Ogema, it's interesting to hear your views from the "other side of the Line". Hopefully you can continue to keep us informed of what is happening.

As far as the pounds allowed Gary Barnard sent me this;

"The number that folks should be focused on is 3.5 pounds per acre, the upper end of the safe harvest range. Both jurisdictions will need to manage harvest to average 3.5 pounds or less per acre per year for the long term. That level is 168,000 pounds for state waters for a full year, or 84,000 for a half year (2006) or split summer/winter seasons in future years.

That same harvest level for band waters is 827,000 pounds for a full year of harvest. They will also be restricting harvest to a half year in 2006.

We can exceed the 3.5 pounds per acre in a single year without having to close harvest, but will have to average back under 3.5 in the next couple of years.

The 108,000 pounds you have been hearing corresponds to the 4.5 pounds per acre harvest cap. That is the level when harvest will need to be closed. We don't really want to be hitting that cap since it will take a lot of reduction in the following years to get back under 3.5.

Let's all hope the regulation works as planned, and folks can show a little restraint."

[n8v_fisherman]

Hello All! Just signed up for this site today after finding a link to in on rlnn.com. It's nice to see there is some good support out there and some positive feedback about lower Red Lake. I grew up in Red Lake and have always enjoyed the fishing. On a good summer. I make it back up there at least 4 times a year for some good times with my sons, wife, and family fishing at the Outlet, Rockdam, Blackduck River...etc. It appears this will be the summer we are going to be able to actually fish the lake once again. I grew up helping net fish and am now against the idea of allowing this practice to start. I am all for the ideas of resort's or even having guided fishing excursions. Who wouldn't take a job where you could fish and make freinds all day right?? I do believe there is a little way to go to make this happen. Most of all I think as the Red Lake Nation we need to understand that we are the owners and controllers of our lake. Which means we need to play a huge part in making decisions on bag limits, license prices, etc, etc. Mii-gwetch Ogima for coming here and sharing your views. This forum shows that we can break down one wall or "the line" and build new ones. Can't blame us for being over cautious. Anyway, my profile has a little about me...I'll end here and will post again soon.... Have a great day!!!

[LABS4ME]

Welcome to FM! It's nice to see you and Ogema come on here and post! That was an excellent post and a position I'm sure most guys would love to see the rest of the band take. I hope that with more civil discussions like these, over time the lines can be erased... Stop in and post often!

Good Luck!

Ken

[hanson]

Welcome!!

This thread has been a very enjoyable and informative one. I have learned a lot from it and hope to learn more.

Thank you guys!!

[graffitigreg]

I was curious so I Googled "Migwitch" and it means, "Thank You."

I don't know if this is the appropraite place for this post but my search for the meaning of Migwitch turned up a wonderful web site. You can search for this title if you want a good read: When Everybody Called Me Gah-bay-bi-nayss: "Forever-Flying-Bird"

Check it out. There are more than fifty chapters. To peak your interest the first three paragraphs of the introduction read as follows: Paul Buffalo's mother, herself an Ojibwa(1) medicine woman, told Paul, her oldest son, shortly before she died, that she had a dream revealing that one day someone would come to write down their Indian ways of life. She told him that when that time came he should speak of those things she had taught him: "You are the oldest and I have taught you my ways. Someday someone will ask you about these things. I have dreamed about that. Keep these things that I have taught. Someday people will want to hear about them again."

In 1965, after watching this writer studying in his community for a number of months, Paul Buffalo, the old woman's son, told the writer, "I have been watching your work. I have some things I'm supposed to leave behind, but few will listen to me now. Would you write them down for me? Someday people will want to listen again, and when they do, you can give them these words." Believing this writer to be the person his mother dreamed of, Paul Buffalo began what became a twelve-year process of systematically recounting his life experiences.

Mr. Paul Buffalo (Gah-bah-bi-nays),(2) in the last twelve of his seventy-seven years, systematically recorded most of his beliefs and left a legacy of approximately 3,500 pages of life history materials. During the twelve years of taping life history materials, Paul Buffalo discussed every aspect of his public and private life, including descriptions of his religious beliefs and herbal medical practices.

An Ethnographic Biography of Paul Peter Buffalo

There are plenty of great pictures to illustrate the story too. I gotta say it, This here new fangled www.whateveryouwanttoknow is the cat's meow.

[The Bog Man]

I also just signed up today. I've been reading off & on for years, but the subject, as well as the participation in such civilized discussions made me "get off the fence".

I have been visiting URL for my whole life (40+ years) and just wanted to say I appreciate what everyone is TRYING to do to insure the success of the Lake, the area and the reservation in general.

The obvious thing we all have in common, is that we want the area, with all of it's wildlife & beauty to be shared by our families for generations to come. Doesn't matter which side of the "line" you are on to agree with that, right?

[shadyzr]

It all comes back to WE are all human beings, it says it in the Bible and the constitution,"We are all created EQUALL" (spell). I Just think ALL should be treated the same, but we're not. What if there was a law where if you were Irish that you did'nt have to pay taxes, or have to buy a hunting or fishing license. All that are not Irish would feel its not fair. Why should some have to pay for a mistake, (that I or anyone else thats alive,)

that happened over 200 years ago for the rest of their lives and so on down to great grand children and so on. On judgement day, does anyone really think that they are going to get special treatment because of any kind of hardships they have gone through on earth, or because they are different?? I don't mean to offened anyone here, and i'm sorry if I did. I just wish every humane being would get treated equally the same.

[Ogema]

Hey shady, you don't offend me, however I want to respond to your post. I am not 100% sure but when you are referring to not paying taxes are you referring to us Natives?

You quote the constituition, which is intersting, because when I was in D.C., I was educated by a US Senator, Dale Killdee, MI, on what sets us apart, I believe its article 1, section 8, in the very constituition you are referring, that sets us apart. He gave me his copy, which had it highlighted, but its on my bookshelf at home.

However the way it really works is that, the state doesn't take state tax out of our pay checks, if we work on the rez, live on the rez, and are enrolled in the Tribe you are working for, thats the only difference.

We still pay tax on gas, at the stores, on smokes, beers, hotel rooms, car rentals, etc. SO we are equal on this.

We also pay Federal tax, its taken right out of our checks, your Uncle Sam takes his cut before we even get it! So we are equal there. Our Gaming operations pay alot of taxes, multi- Millions in payroll, state and federal.

SO those myths of us not paying taxes should be laid to rest now, make sure you tell the person who mis-educated you, so that no more people will be mis-educated.

As far as the hunting and fishing licences, they were foreign to us, because we never hunted for sport, but rather for survival, so it was a new concept to us that didn't make sense. We now have a hunting season.

Your government came up with licenses, not ours...

[HateHumminbird]

Ogema:

Thank you for your information and clarification. I especially appreciate your detailed explanation, as it's easy to assume the worst with little evidence/knowledge otherwise. It's refreshing to hear the other side of the story straight from the horse's mouth, as we welcome your input, and the input of other tribal members.

Thanks!

Joel

[ozzie]

Thanks for the clarification there Ogema...... That has always been a wonder to me now I know.

[mplsnative]

slimy went to school there as a kid whats your brothers name maybe I know him.

[ChannelRat]

NO NETS!

[kelly-p]

If there is anything you are happy about ChannelRat please let us know so we can start a Topic about it. Every post you have made is negative and angry. We're having fun here, the lake is healthy again! Lets enjoy it.

[Pikester]

I agree! Get over it and be thankful for what you can fish. If you don't like it, don't go. There are 9,999 more lakes in the state you can fish.

[ChannelRat]

Hey Kelly, I'm not the only one voicing their opinion good or bad. Isn't that what this forum is all about? It's obviously a hot and enjoyable topic(fifty something posts) for everyone. A guy can only talk about depth, Color, what bait, how far out, ice thickness, and if they need an extension so much. I think singling me out was a low blow.

NO NETS!

[kelly-p]

I repeat, negative and angry isn't getting you anyplace. Working together does. I see the people up here working together. I see the results of that work. The walleyes are back, shouldn't we feel happy?

[mplsnative]

I agree

[Ogema]

On a Sunday I couldnt feel better about using this word to describe the way I feel about tha last posts...

AMEN!