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DNR Motives


ChannelRat

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Don't get too excited about future walleye openers on Red. Rumor has it that the DNR is going to way over regulate Red for years in hopes that people will by-pass the lake for other lakes. The reason is right in front of your eyes everytime you cross the Tamarak River. As soon as you cross the bridge, look left. That large building by the launch is a walleye milking station, soon to be put back into action. This is where the motive comes into play. The DNR would much rather have no fishing at all. The future for Red looks like, sport netting by...well I won't name names, and milking by DNR with alot of the frye being sold out of state.

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Oh, come on. Don't be so cynical. If the regs are tight, it just means that some of those fish will have a chance to get big. Another Mille Lacs? Maybe, is that so bad?

As for the DNR's spawn-taking operation, if the numbers of mature fish are where the test-netting suggests, it's not going to matter how many anglers are catching and keeping. Females produce LOTS of eggs.

If you were the DNR, do you really think it would be politically astute to ruin people's fun? Most of the people employed by DNR Fisheries are average Joes or Janes like yourself. I can say that, because I was once one of them.

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I think you are a little off course with this one. If I understand it right that hatchery is the biggest one the DNR has. It is also the most out of date and expensive to operate. I have not heard of any plans to reopen it.

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Just take a look at the feat they already accomplished. The completed restorated the walleyes' existance in Red Lake. It might take some time but the regualtations will open up. There are milking stations on other lakes that have regular limits. From what i've heard is the DNR in going to allow 100,000 pounds to be havested by anglers during the open water season and they are allowing for 500,000 pounds to be netted. Depressing frown.gif yes it is. The decision to net is still up to the band but the DNR will only allow them to do so much after what happend last time.

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The DNR has NO say in what the Natives do... none what so ever. They are their own nation without regard to state control or mandates. They also control 80% of the lake. They have their own DNR and biologists. The 100,000 #'s is for our open water quota, with another yet to be determined quota for the hardwater season, Potentially giving us up to 200,000 pounds of fish. 500,000 for 80% of the lake vs. 200,000 #'s for 20%, sounds fairly fair to me. The best we can do is hope that they've learned their lesson (and that goes for us too), abide by the rules and quotas set forth, and learn to respect this great resource! I wouldn't say all the "sportsman" who continually break the rules and keep walleyes right now is fair. Let's accept things for what they are and move forward.

Good Luck!

Ken

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I'm not too concerned about channelrat, he sure picked a poor choice for a first post.

Get over yourself and realize that between the MN DNR and the Red Lake Band, we now a another world class walleye fishery. Ask anyone who's fished URL in the last 2 yrs. All I hear is how many walleye's people are catching.

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Even if they do start milking the females for eggs, it wouldn't hurt a thing. There are so many Eyes in that lake, that the ones thye milk, would not make a difference. I have helped with that here in Montana, and it would be a plus if they did. A lot of times other states traid back different bait fish or other Game fish to make your state a better place to fish. CAJ

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What I can't understand is, why isn't the band saying "to heck with netting, let's open up some resorts ourselves and let people stay and fish with hook and line for this quota."

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"to heck with netting, let's open up some resorts ourselves and let people stay and fish with hook and line for this quota."


I have thought the same thing, you could stay at a casino/hotel, fish some top notch water with a guide from the Red Lake Nation and take some of the pressure off the lake. Just think of the jobs and boost to the economy for the reservation.

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All I'm doing is voicing the opinions of myself and countless others I've talked to. You should be concerned about what I wrote about. The point I'm trying to make is that the DNR has an ideal place(Tamarak River)to milk walleyes now. They are never going to ease up on the regs and ruin their cash cow for them or the natives.

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Labs4me, I think a more accurate number is 1.06 million lbs. of netted fish. That's alot of lbs.


No, I think its alot less than that. I remember reading something on it.. around 400,000 pounds? confused.gif

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A couple weeks ago in the Strib there was a two article series on the Red Lake reservation. When it mentioned fishing and the walleye comeback, the gist that I got out of the articles was that they don't want the white men fishing on their lake, it was given to them by Mother Earth to feed them blah blah blah. It would seem to make economic sense to open it up for guides/resorts/casinos/sport fishing vrs getting cents on the dollar for netted walleyes, but theres more to this than economics. I wouldn't hold my breath about ever being able to fish on Lower Red.

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Exactly Blackjack... the Red Lake Tribe will continue to be a poor nation and live off the land because they want to remain the way they have for generations. Right or wrong what can you do!!! You and I both know that they could do the hotel/casino with access to the lower lake and they would gain greatly but that is not them I guess. They want nothing to do with white man unless they are in need!!! mad.gif

Labs4me--- Can you clarify to me why it is fair that we are on 20% of the fishery and can take the numbers you stated 200,000#s to 80% of the lake taking 500,000#s. If this is the case I would definatly say that our 20% would be taking too much.....Wouldn't you???? Just curious!!!!

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I have a question, did the tribe help pay the cost of re-stocking the lake after they netted it out?

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Sutty,

Yes they did, I believe they paid for 60% of the restocking after they and US fished it out.

Mike

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Ozzie... I guess I don't quite understand where you are going... I personally think given we control less than 20% of the lake and potentially are going to be able to take somewhere around 200,000 #'s, I think we are doing alright. If you feel we need to harvest less maybe contact Gary Barnard of the fisheries division for the DNR. I've been in contact with him many times and he always gets back to you promptly. All I'm trying to do is cut this off before it flames up to another Indian bashing thread. They have enough problems to worry about on the Res. without a bunch of sportsman spreading half truths and rumors around. They are far from perfect, but they at least except that they were a major contributor to the decline of the Red Lake fishery... something you never hear "us" say. Double dipping (triple - quadruple etc.) was also a factor then and it continues today ( I guarntee you guys are and were keeping multiple limits of crappie) and how many so called "sportsman" going home with their limits of walleye, stopped off at their favorite watering hole and bought more illegal fillets for a buck a piece on their way home from the Indians who ran illecit nets? More, Me, Now. Again I know for a fact it happened as I've talked to many who did it back in the day. I also know for a fact that many fisherman are keeping walleyes now, I've seen the carcasses where the fish houses stood when I go on the lake and pick up trash in the spring. When I hear about someone keeping walleye now, I do my best to make sure they get a visit from the friendly CO. We have no problem calling the kettle black.... Fair? I guess I counldn't quantify that, I leave that to those in the know... if we get 200,000 #'s and they are content with 500,000 #'s and the lake remains healthy I see no harm in it. I feel we are lucky to have this once great lake healthier than it's been in maybe 50 years... both sides have to insure they keep it that way!

With that said, I can about guarantee from what I've read about the meetings held in Red Lake, that you will never be able to fish their portion of the lake. What kills me is all the "White" sportsman bantying about how much it will help the tribe if they open it up to "US"... Again; more, me, now... I'm sure it's safe to assume that all of you who want to fish Lower Red, that your intentions are not grounded in helping the tribe, but rather how you can get on their portion of the lake and fish it... It's about you and not them. You can care less if they are rich or poor, but you use it as a shield to tell about how you are going to help them by giving them money to fish. The funny thing about fishing is everyone wants "theirs" before somebody else can lay claim to it... All you hear right now is after all these years of pulling out countless thousands of limits of crappie, that they are pissing in their beers saying "if everybody would've put some back it would still be a great crappie lake"... maybe the same thing would've held true with the walleyes pre-decline (on both sides of the line), but instead it happened, tough lessons were learned, we all got a secondary fishery that was and is nothing short of phenomenal, and it hopefully will remain that way if all will play fair! Take away your short sidedness and don't worry about limits and poundage, go up there, have a ball, enjoy the area, get to know the Waskish area residents as they are some of best down to earth people you will ever meet. You can't control what happens on the Red Lake tribe's side of the line anymore than you can control what happens in Canada... we have to learn to live with that... and I feel that is what kills most guys who go up there, they're just not used to not being able to control everything. Spend your energy making this side of the line right... Hopefully they will abide by the agreements made with our DNR in sharing their info from both their biology and harvest reports and "see the future" and "not the today".

Sutty, if I remember correctly the cost to stock was around $70,000. We paid $30,000 and they paid $40,000. They also have contributed countless voulunteer hours in the stocking on their side. In the end the cost is a fraction of what our illustrious legislature wastes in a day.

I don't have all the answers and I'm not trying to come across as a know it all... but this whole issue has intrigued me since it started. I base what I type on what I've learned, not what I "think" is happening... I try not to spread inuendo but rather the truth. If I'm off base go ahead and rail me, but do it with fact and not "what you heard" or what you feel.

Good Luck!

Ken

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Thanks for the info, not looking to push blame around was just curious.

The tribe at Devils lake ND could be a great model for the Red lake Band if they chose that route. people love to drive to the middle of no-where to catch fish and have some fun. I do not think however they are under any obligation to open it up. and if they choose to keep the lake to themselves thats fine to. Since there seems to be a poverty problem it would seem to make sense though.

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Again Labs you have hit it right on the money. I was talking to a gentlemen that was a chef down in the cities . He was telling me how they would buy walleyes for a buck a piece and the restraunt would sell a walleye dinner for 18.95 nice little profit for the the owners.They were not native american resraunts buying fish. There land is there land, there ancestors had the forsite to keep it. Its never been owned by the white man and never will. Lets all be thankfull for what we have.

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Labs4me- I am not trying to cause a fuss hear I was just wondering where you heard they would give us another 100,000#'s of fish during the hardwater season?? I have heard the original 108,000 #s and then they would reevaluate and that could mean as far as to no fish in the winter if they felt that the soft water season grossed to many #s. They also never did state that if that 500,000 pounds was stricktly for a soft water total or a yearly total for the tribe. I wasn't attacking your post I was just curious as to where you got your info. (200,000lbs off 20% of a lake opposed to the rest of the lake taking only 500,000lbs I guess I would feel like I was getting the shaft if I where the tribe wouldn't you?)

I could care less what the Tribe does with their 80% of the lake....Just as long as they manage it correctly for the future!!! Obviosly I would love the chance to get on that side of the lake and fish who wouldn't!!!! But if they don't open it up to us so be it... I am not sure of the overall status of the community and if they get any help from our government. I do know what a friend from the tribe has told me that they are a poor comunity. The only thing that would get me is if they do have the means and commodity to help the community economically and don't act on it. Especially IF our government helps them out financially in any form!!! This is just my opinion like it or not......

Oh by the way Labs I have been to Red many many times in the last 4-5 years and I have never kept a walleye and I have never taken more than 10 crappies home!! Your comment that you guaruntee that we have been double or triple dipping the crappies is a very strong comment!!!(might be true for some but I don't believe that holds true for the majority) Sure there are bad apples in the group on the lake but that can be said in any group on any lake!!!

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I am coming up to Red again this year and just like always I'm going to have a good time whether I catch a fish or not. It is a beautiful place and I am thankful that I can be there. Living in St. Paul I can't really comment on what would be good for whom because I only get up there once or twice a year and I don't know (Contact US Regarding This Word) but I am sure grateful for the times I do get up there. It has been awesome to catch those big crappies and I sure have had fun releasing some mighty fine walleyes. I usually come up in March so I haven't tried for those lunker pike I have read about. What more could a guy want with what we have had already. If it ends tomorrow I can say I was there and was very lucky to experience some of it.

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Hi to all, I'm kinda of new to this site but I thought it was suppose to be friendly, you know a group of outdoorsmen or women who enjoy sharing stories and tips. All this bickering about a situation we have NO control over is pointless. Sure I would also love to fish lower red, but What can I do about it? nothing, and no one else on here can either so lets stop wasting our time with the back and forth comments about figures and who knows what and who doesn't. Lets enjoy the resource we have, and remeber to enjoy what we have. just my 2 cents

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Ozzie, slow down my friend!!! I was posting about how the double and triple dipping was prevelent during the walleye glory years. But I did tie it into that it still is around today. It may have been very prevelent then... ask anybody who fished there in the 60's, 70's and 80's... but it is still around even if at a lesser extent today. Don't kid yourself though in believing many so-called sportsman didn't take multiple limits of crappies home over multiple nights of a weekend trip or if they had the ability to drive there and back home. Maybe only the 10 or 15 allotted daily, but they did so each and every night. I'd bet many "ethical" sportsman who'd never consider coming home with more than their limit also have some crappies from past trips in their freezer. Not implying it's you at all, I never did in any of my posts... but there have been many thousands of guys on the ice each and every night for 5-6 years now.....even if only 1% is bad....add it up. I guess I didn't need words put in my mouth saying I stated it was a majority... it's a problem! not a majority. As far as walleyes being kept, come out with me in April on your ATV and go on garbage detail, it'll make your head spin how many carcasses you'll see, and that doesn't take into account what is snuck off the lake. My 7 year-old son comes out to help me clean-up each spring and he knows you can't keep walleyes on Red and he kept questioning me why so many guys did. I bet we saw over 200 carcasses, And how much of the lake can I possibly touch in one day.... It's easy for us to blame "others" but before we do, we all need to look at "ourselves"... (meaning us as a whole, not indivdually).

I just recently read we may get another 108,000 #'s for hardwater, but I've also read it may be in the 50,000# range... that has yet to be decided. Even at 108,000 #'s I was pointing out we are doing all right in terms of poundage vs. acres.

Carry on in the debate if you want, I feel with both stated our sides effectively, ultimatley I was just trying to end around the thread before it became another "us" vs. "them" thread. Never intended for you to take any of the posts personally and tried to write as general as possible. I'm just trying to post that we still have some more policing to do in our ranks....

Good Luck!

Ken

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I did not want to jump on your thread Labs4me. It was that you didn't state very effectivley that you where talking about the past in regards to the double dipping (at least I didn't interpret it that way)!! I agree that there are walleyes being caught and kept this very minute and I agree it is gross and wrong. I did not try to put words in your mouth and that is why I referenced your post but you were talking in the past so it was pointless statment on my part!! I also would like to Thank you for picking up garbage from the thoughtless SOB's that can't take home what they bring out!!! I always try to pick up any junk/trash left behind by others. The sad part about that situation is I would like to bet that the guys that leave garbage behind are also the guys that are taking the walleyes illegally!!! mad.gif Anyways Good Luck to you and if I am at the lake this spring and can lend a hand just post when you are going and I would love to join in a clean-up/fishing adventure!!!

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No offense taken Ozzie... I re-read my post and I can see how you could've read it the other way... it's easier talking than typing! Ditto, if you're up that way let me know! Stop by the LABSHACK and we'll chat over a beer and a couple of crappies! Thanks for the offer in the spring... it's actually pretty fun... a dozen or so guys get to gether, spread out and fish open holes and pick up garbage... great way to spend a nice April day!

Good Luck!

Ken

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"Your comment that you guaruntee that we have been double or triple dipping the crappies is a very strong comment!!!(might be true for some but I don't believe that holds true for the majority) "

Sadly people it is very true that double and triple dipping is happening now with the crappies. One person bragged in a local baitshop about taking over 925 crappies home over the winter. He hoped the ice would last long enough that he could get to 1,000. Him alone, going for 1,000. frown.gif When the bite is strong I see it everyday. True it is a small percentage of us but it is part of our "family" of sportsmen. With the double and triple dipping, the garbage and the walleye being taken we have enough bad apples in our own neighborhood that we have plenty to clean up BEFORE we even began to think about the Indians or what they may do.

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i agree with kelly, i would go as far to say that it is not a small majortiy. it is ten in possesion how many people go up several times in a month i guarantee they do not eat their ten before they are up the next time. if you have two left over in your freezer and you go and keep ten you are over the limit. I think this happens often. and darn near impossible to figure out, it is not the two in the frezzer that make the difference it is the two guys that take twenty he comes up again two weeks later and keeps twenty more with a different buddym, and before you know it he has fifty crappies from the last two months in his frezzer. this happens all over the state, to many so called sportsman need to have a number count to show and brag about so they can one up the next guy. yes the guy that keeps 200 crappies like the guys on rat lake earlier this year are the exception, but i can be fairly confident in saying there are many people that have over their limit. in freezers across the state. just my two cents. I know this thread has kind of gone way off track but wanted to post my opinion.

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Quackaddict9, unless I misread the front page article in the Jan. 20 issue of outdoor news, I think the natives will be allowed 4.5 lbs. of walleye per acre or 1.06 million lbs. frown.gif

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