Tresspassing ??????????????

[friendlyfisher]

I have a question for you guys that know the law. Can you walk in the water in waders where ever you want to? It is obvious that a boat can go where ever it wants to but in waders you are actually on the ground. If i am in a park and the property line stops right next to some posts that say no tresspassing, can I jump in the water and walk where ever I want in front of the private property? How about if im only standing in 6" of water? Just need to know so I can hopfully make a crabby land owner mad. And hopfully catch a few crappies others cant reach. thank you. ff

[pikerliker]

I'm not certain on this but I think their property rights end at the waters edge. Obviously you can't be climbing on their dock, etc. but I don't think they can legally raise a fuss if you are in the water with waders on. Hey friendly your not going to be like that commercial with the kid putting his finger about 1/2 inch from his sisters face saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" are you? Except your like an inch from shore going "I'm not on your property! I'm not on your property!"

~piker

[friendlyfisher]

No im not that bad but I was infront of his property once and he came out and started throwing rocks in the lake, I left soon after.

Then today, i took the wife and kids down to the lake for a mothers day picnic and there was a one armed man fishing. He was in the lake up to his shins and standing in front of the private property. THe one armed man was a sight to see. Talk about a man not letting a major accident in life get in his way of enjoying what he loves. He would put the rod between his thighs and reel in with is one hand. Then like clockwork, here comes the land owner, starts yelling at him and pointing where he thinks the man should be standing. He was to far away for me to here but I know what he was saying. As far a I know the landowner does not fish, I have never seen a person fishing of his dock ever.

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure you can walk through that area of water. Unless the land owner owns all the land completely surrounding all the water.

For example, if a creek runs under a road and into a small pond where it is completely surrounded by land somebody owns you can legally get in the creek by the road and walk (in the water) all the way to the pond. As long as you are in the water you are just fine. The land owner does not own the water. The water in this case is public.

If there is a pond or small lake that somebody has in their yard, with no out/inlet (source) you can not just walk through the land and stand in the water.

I am fairly certain on this one. I just learned it in my class, lead by a conservation officer.

[friendlyfisher]

thanks loebs, I would still want to know for sure before I get in a confrontation with this sour man pissed off at life and everyone around trying to enjoy it. I will be walking from a public park into the water and over in front of this guys land. ff

[icehousebob]

You would be wading in navigable waters. The simplest description given by the DNR is if you can float a canoe on it, its public. Now, the old duffer yelling at or threatening you, or throwing rocks in the water, thats harassing a fisherman in pursuit of game. I think thats against the law. It would sure be funny to have him call the cops on you and get arrested himself. You could sell tickets to that.

[LocalGuide]

Lol, make sure you have a video camera a long for that!

What loebs93 said is right I think. Im not 100% positive but I would bet a lot that it is right.

[river rat316]

I am 100% positive if you access the water through public land, you can go anywhere you want once in the water, you would be perfectly legal doing this, I also think you can use his dock if you need to as long as you dont access it from his land (you have to climb on it from the water) I believe a dock is considered public property also once its in the water. I maybe wrong but someone should check on that, it would really get him goin!

[The Grebe]

If the water in front of the persons land is not theirs, how can they legally build a dock in water that belongs to everyone and then tell people to stay off of it?

Would'nt that be pretty much the same as erecting a deer stand in a a public hunting area and claiming sole rights to it?

If you are in the navigatable water, got into the water at a legal spot, how can you be kick out of it?

I think I heard somewhere that the lake shore property can only be owned to the traditional high water mark? Not sure on that, just something I heard?

It's all fine and good until I get enough scratch to own my own lake shore property, then I will battle hammer and tong to claim ownership to the middle of the lake!

[Ryan Berger]

where are you doing this ,,I may be able to help you out if it is in the Hutchinson area

[friendlyfisher]

Lund, whats your email address? I will drop you some mail. ff

[SteveWilson]

You can wade between the high water marks between the banks. If you're blocked from proceeding (i.e. a fallen tree) then you can climb the bank to go around the tree. Bridges are public and have an easment so you can access the stream there. But be respectfull. Don't go cutting fences (even if they put them up illegaly), carry out more trash than you brought, and consider asking for permission first.

[friendlyfisher]

How about if a dock is in your way? Can you go up onto shore to get around a private dock? ff

[magnumthunder]

Hi there! I went though something kinda like this. My incident was for hunting. In which the warden told me as long as I was in the water and did not tresspass to gain access I could do it. He however warned me that since I was warned about this that for no reason could I go on his land even for retrieving wounded game. Hope this helps plus you may want to bring a camera if he does harass you. Just my 2 cents worth.

[danfall]

You are not allowed to trespass on the dock or the land. If you are wading, it is unlikely you'll get far on a populated lake, so most people don't tempt fate wading in front of pp. I was threatened ice fishing by a landowner for fishing in front of his place and I asked him to call the cops. He was carrying on about how he had to pay the taxes on lakefront property and I was using it.

I ended up leaving, and then I called the county sheriff. The sheriff said I did the right thing and he was going to take a drive to the landowner's place to make sure he had taken his first strike.

[JP Z]

As long as you got on from a public spot and you stay in the water 100% you are completely LEGAL. I had an issue on a stream where a landowner had posted no trespassing. So I spoke with the DNR and he said as long as I stay in the water I am 100% legal. Just call the guy on it if he complains.

[FOOT]

Friendly, its true, as long as you can gain access to the water by either wading, boating, or gaining permission to cross the land you can legally wade in the water. You can not leave the water to walk on the land to avoid any obstruction, unless you have permission.

The State of MN owns ALL water. And yes if you are harassed by someone throwing rocks in the water or motoring too close you can call the warden and a ticket should be issued.

I ran into an individual some years ago that did not like us casting by his dock. He claimed it was his dockand his property so therefore it was his water as he owned the land under the water to a depth of 35 feet and to further make things ridiculous he owned the fish under his dock and in front of his property to that depth of 35 feet. A simple call to the warden ended the argument and set him straight. I don't know if that discussion/argument had a hand in it but a couple of months later he dropped dead of a heart attack.

I had occassion to fish the lake again the next year and was pitchin for bass when I came up to his dock. An elderly lady was laying on a lounge chair reading as I approached so I just passed the dock by and started to go to the next one. She spoke up and asked if I wasn't going to fish her dock. I said I'd liek to but didn't want to disturb her. Her reply was "nonsence, do you think I'm that grumpy old man that use to live here, go ahead and fish". I thanked her and starting pitchin. That's when I learned about her husband and his heart attack. She refused to come up to the lake because he was so ornery. She loves it up North now and I stop by and visit for a few minutes each time I fish the lake.

[Ice9]

Docks are special...the state takes a kind of quasi-ownership of a dock once it's in the water so owners won't be liable for an accident. Usual high water mark is the upper limit of public ownership, and I've been told the same thing about using private property to make reasonable adn brief detours around obstructions.

Also "navigable" is even more liberally defined...if you can float a canoe on it at any time, not all the time, is the usual standard.

Some states out east (my home state of VA among them) recognize pre-Constitutional ownership and therefore older laws (ie old British laws) that do confer ownership of river bottom and water and fish in some cases. These are called "King's Grant" rights and are rare. It's obnoxious.

Remember that what is legal is not always what is right or reasonable. Many landowners are not interested in legal details and they make assumptions about their ownership (which is of course very important to people.) The assumptions can lead to unpleasant, even dangerous confrontations. And you may even be ticketed, and only be able to resolve the problem in court, or even on appeal (which happened to a legal-minded friend of mine)--way more expensive than just smiling and moving on.

Some law enforcement agencies and individuals are more interested in placating landowners, who remain, than enforcing unusual and little-known rights for people who don't live there and don't pay taxes. Again not common but I've had this experience before, especially when I was young and even though I knew my rights I was bullied by local cops and landowners. Ticket was thrown out but my day was spoiled.

ice

[nthomps66]

How about these people that buy the "swimming area" buoys and toss them out in front of their property. I have received many dirty looks for fishing near these. It's amazing that people think they can rope off a portion of the lake to call their own. See Turtle Lake in Shoreview for instance. There are many so-called private swimming areas.

I thought about setting up my own "swimming area" in the middle of a lake directly over a nice sunken island or something.

Any chance we can get a CO on this forum to clear these questions up. I also though docks were public property once placed in the water.

[chucker34]

The swimming buoy topic made me think of something I saw on David Letterman a few months ago. An audience member told him she lived on this popular lake in New York where Letterman himself had a cabin. He said that many of the cabin owners had swimming buoys in front of their properties, way out into the lake, and that he and his buddy would take the canoe out late at night and cut the ropes to all of them. Isn't that illegal, the audience member asked? Sure it is, he said, and switched subjects. Thought it was pretty funny.

[Ryan Berger]

FF

ryan dot berger @us.army.mil

[JP Z]

Actually Chucker, if the buoys are left for a period longer than 24hrs they pose a navigation hazard and are to be disposed of I believe. Same as if someone leaves their Marker Buoy on a spot for a week....snip snip.

From the MN DNR Water Safety book

TEMPORARY STRUCTURES, DOCKS AND

BUOYS

Temporary docks extending from shore generally

require no permit. There is no state limit on

length, unless the dock interferes with navigation.

(Note: There may be local restrictions as to dock

length or construction.)

Structures such as swimming rafts, boat lifts,

buoys, slalom courses, ski jumps, etc., which do

not extend from shore, cannot be placed in the

water between sunset and sunrise without first obtaining

a permit from the county sheriff. All structures

placed under a permit must have the permit

number painted on them. In addition, the structure

or buoy must either have a light visible in all directions

or be reflectorized so as to reflect light from

all directions.

And for the Swimming buoys

SWIMMING

Private Areas

The owner or lessee of shoreline property may

mark off up to 2,500 square feet, but not more than

50 feet along the lake frontage, for a swimming area

directly in front of his or her property. Markers to

designate a private swimming area must be white

with an orange diamond and cross on each side

(see illustration on top left, page 32). The markers

must extend out of the water at least six inches but

no more than 14 and should be spaced no more

than 15 feet apart. (Note: A white gallon plastic

bleach bottle with the orange markings painted on

each side fulfills this requirement.)

[chucker34]

Yes. I know that's the way it is in Minnesota. Not sure about NY. But from reading the regs, it looks as if you have to get a permit from the county sheriff to leave a swim buoy in the water overnight and that you have to paint an orange diamond and cross on the sides. Yet I see lot of people just throwing those white tube shaped buoys in the water and leaving them there all Summer with no problem. Often times, they're at least 100 feet out in the water.

[BassManDuluth]

Each year my class of 4th graders team up with the DNR and stock fingerlings in Duluth area streams within city limits.

One year we were stocking a stream 10 feet off a major Avenue ( the same one we stocked for the last 5 years) and a 30 year old lady (?) comes running out of her house waving a shovel and screaming that we needed to get off her property.

The DNR agent explained to her what we were doing and explained to her the domain laws off a street or Avenue allowed access to the kids to proceed. She went ballistic and swore (in front of the kids) about the **** trout fishermen in her stream and how she needs NO MORE Trout in it.

We comleted the job, but avoided that entry in the future. Too bad!

[2dalake]

Yeah well, some people are miserable and feel better if you are miserable too. If you let them get under your skin they win.

[Mr.Perch]

friendlyfisher

You can wade in the water if it can float a canoe please call the CO or TIP line and ask for your local CO if you do not know the number. I have a handicapped kid and with the large number of resorts going condo / camper owned I have run into folks who think they own the road right of way, lake bottom, and stream bed. So please call and complain to THE DNR and ask them to talk to the county sherriff. At my familys lake place I make sure you can wade past the end of the dock with chest waders. The reson I do this is there are two young guys from Iowa (60 and 70 something years old) who fish in waders down the shore in front of our place several times a year. I have tryed to get the other folks in our bay to do the same and most do I someday I hope to get them all to cooperate.

chucker34

The swim area floats can be out all summer 50 feet wide max means 50 feet out in the lake for the 2500 square feet max. 25 feet wide means 100 feet out in the lake but if they cause a navigation hazard contact the CO or county sherrif and they will make the them go away. The swim area is for restricting boats for safety it no way applies to wading while fishing but of course none of us would endanger kids by casting where they are swiming.

sorry for ranting but common sense is not common and being a good neighbor to all seems forgotten.

[BassManDuluth]

You got that right 2dalake. Mean breeds mean.

[friendlyfisher]

Thanks guys, I talked to my CO and the DNR today. They both say I have the right to be there. My CO told me that sometimes its just best to move on and fish somewhere else. I would do this in most cases but not this one. I dont plan on sitting in front of his place just to tick him off but Im also not going to not do it just because he is a prickkkk. So we will see what happens. Caught some nice crappies in front of his place tonight, he was not home. ff

Lundduckboat you have mail.

[wayne123]

I think the key is to do what is right. Yes it is legal to wade in the water but I would not camp out in front of their dock all day. Another way to look at it is your fishing in a boat and another boat comes up and anchor right next to you. That is legal but it certainly is not right. I own a cabin and people fish in front of it all the time and it does not bother me (no one in waders yet but that would not bother me either).

[friendlyfisher]

Wayne, I would tend to agree with you in most cases but in this case the its not like the guy is fishing of his dock and im crossing lines with him.

All the guy does outside is mows lawn and walks down to shore to yell at people, then he goes back inside and hidesout.

I have a fealing he was givin or inherited the house or something.

Today I caught a sunnie over 1 pound in front of his place. It was awsome. ff