Stadium Deal...thoughts?

[Jarrod32]

Pohlad is paying $125 million toward the cost...the remainder (about $360 million) is proposed to be funded with a .15% sales tax. That ends up being about 3 cents on a $20 purchase...the tax is only implemented in Hennepin county, however.

There are no plans for a retractable roof...that would cost an extra $100 million. (I think Pohlad should kick in the extra $100 million for the roof, and in exchange get naming rights...Pohlad Stadium).

There is also a provision that if the team is sold within a ten-year timeframe, that the revenue from any such sale is split with Hennepin County (not a lot...something like 18% right away) to help pay off the bonds (thus, potentially ending the sales tax sooner). It also proposes a 30-year lease.

It actually looks like a pretty good deal...those who benefit (team, Hennepin County) are paying...others (outstate Minnesota) do not (unless you do your shopping in Minneapolis, in which case, shame on you for not shopping locally anyway and I have no problem with you paying the tax).

The legislature only has to approve the Hennepin County request to implement the sales tax...and as long as the County wants to do it, I don't see where the legislature has a legitimate reason not to allow them to do what they want.

Other thoughts?

[Eric Wettschreck]

I've never been for public money funding a stadium. However, I like this idea. Like Jarrod said, those paying the tax could see the benefits. Guys like me who won't really be seeing anything won't be paying the tax.

Hopefully they will engineer it for a future roof. I travel almost 4 hours to get to a game. It's nice that they play rain or shine. Also, hopefully it won't be built smack dab in the middle of downtown major metro area.

[pikehunter]

Well, it's certainly an interesting proposal. I just get the feeling that as it's unveiled something else will come to light that will throw a wrench in the plan.

Other than Pohlad's contribution and the fact that the sales tax is less, this one isn't much different than the one that failed in St. Paul. (Then again, it doesn't look like this one will go to vote.)

To answer your question boiler ... yep, it will be smack dab in the middle of downtown. Right next to the Target Center.

I really like this proposal but feel the location leaves a little bit to be desired.

[Jarrod32]

'bout a block and a half from the Target Center...

I've always felt that there is some room for some public participation, because there are significant public benefits. Tax revenue, there is some tourist activity, etc. Remember...every time the Yankees, Red Sox, etc come to town, those players pay a portion of their income in Minnesota Income Tax (the portion of their season that they play in Minnesota...). Not to mention all the jobs that it generates. And that doesn't even take into account the cultural benefits (if the state can contribute $35 million to the Guthrie Theater in the name of 'culture', certainly baseball is as much a part of our culture as anything)...

[Eric Wettschreck]

Knowing a stadium will be right smack dab in the middle of major metro makes it not as good of an idea to me. I know, I know, I know.......where in the state isn't going to be metro area soon?

I guess I just remember the days of the good ole Met, and tailgating. Driving the old camper up for the weekend and having good times in the big parking lot.

Traffic to and from the games now is a nightmare. I don't know the cities very well. Will putting it next to the Target Center make traffic any easier?

[Down to Earth]

Quote:

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Remember...every time the Yankees, Red Sox, etc come to town, those players pay a portion of their income in Minnesota Income Tax (the portion of their season that they play in Minnesota...).

---

I'm not an accountant, but can you tell me how this works? When I worked for the Twins I only paid state sales tax to to state I was a resident in. Never did I have to claim money to another state in which the team played. Granted I was working at the minor league level, but still. Is this some kind of arrangement MLB has with the states that have clubs in them?

How is that any different that if I work for Company A in Minnesota, and travel to NY to conduct business and work on behalf of my company there. I don't pay taxes to NY during the time I'm out there. I pay it to MN, where I am a resident.

Any accountants out there?

[bigbucks]

I know that it's a deal that MLB has setup that if the Yankees play one 3 game series in MN in a season their players pay MN income tax on 3/162's of their salary. How that was worked out & who all was responsible I don't know, but that's how it works. As far as I know that only applies to the players, not sure about coaches & managers, etc., but I don't think so.

[Eric Wettschreck]

My very small knowledge of this is that it's the luxery tax. When a player plays in MN, they have to pay state tax to MN for the amount they made while in MN.

It's no different than the working for company X in MN, and traveling to work for a week in New York. I just read an interesting article about this. It's looking like it's going to start to be enforced more and more.

It's a travelling persons nightmare, and an accountants dream if they get paid by the hour. The accountant that is.

[GullGuide]

Getting on the freeway from Target Center has always been really easy, a lot easier than from the dome. I like the idea of having it where it is being proposed, the city skyline would make for an awesome backdrop.

One problem, if you are a Vikings fan and this stadium gets built before the Blaine stadium, parking will be even more of a nightmare and tailgating will pretty much be gonzo. The Twins stadium will be built right on top of the current designated tailgating lot (Rapid Park).

[fishyguy]

The player's tax is a question of how it is paid but even if you only take the tax on the Twins employees, players, ground crew, concessions, parking vendors, bar and restaurant sales you are still talking about millions of dollars in revenue that will be lost to the city, county and state. If we don't pay for the stadium and the team is lost we will still have to replace the millions in tax revenue generated by the team and the business generated by their games. Anyone have any idea where that money will come from when lost?

Government has been offering tax breaks to big business for years to get the tax base to stay or come to town. Why are sports franchises any different? The principle of finance is the same but the perception of the "workers" are different.

[pikehunter]

Fishy, very well said. This has been burning me for years. Nobody blinks an eye when a check is cut for another business who is "a major employer" in MN, but a stadium for some reason is different, when really, the benfits to helping a major employer in MN is tax-based. The Twins payroll is hefty and undoubtedly helps the state pay for things that have nothing to do with baseball. It's time to give back.

I also agree with the "culture" point. Baseball gives a certain level of vitality to the community that an art exhibit never can.

[full force five]

The location is awesome I think. Right on 394 . . . Target center parking . . .light rail will drop you off right at the door step . . .many bars and resurants near the park . . .6 blocks from my office.

As for the idea, it's simple and should pass. If not I don't know when.

[ZapBranigan]

If there is no Roof on the initial plan when they break groung they cannot add a roof later. Heard that on the radio. No plans now and cannot plan fpr a later roof once construction starts.

[Giant_Jackpot]

I don’t like the deal simply because we can’t get the dedicated funding passed for the environment. What’s more important? A small tax for a stadium or a small tax for clean water and better hunting and fishing etc. etc? Why does commerce always come out on top of conservation? Sure the games will bring in tax revenue but so would out of state hunters and fishermen if they had a reason to stop here rather than going through to Canada or the Dakotas. OK I’m done now.

[Mark Christianson]

That's what I'm talkin' about.

[pikehunter]

Jackpot, I'm as much for environmental reform as the next guy, but I think you're comparing apples and oranges here. I don't know many specifics about the current environmental legislation (if you do, please share) but I'm sure the tax would be much more wide-spread than what we're talking about here. Remember, the stadium tax would only be in Hennepin County where people would most benefit from the stadium. I assume the cleap-up legislation you're talking about would be state-wide. Two different animals there. Myself, I'd like to get them both done.

[IndyEFI500]

As a resident of Hennepin county, I really don't care for it. I really don't want to pay any extra tax for something I don't go to. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to lose the Twind anymore than the next guy but I only go to a game once every five years or so. Also, from what I have seen of the layout, tailgating will be virtually none. That was one of the great things of the Met. I think there are many good points that have been brought up here and I agree with almost all. I just prefer to find another way of funding than another tax. By the way, is the Metrodome tax still in affect or did they end it when they were supposed to?

[8-Ball]

This aint gonna happen any other way. Every other method has been proposed for the last 10 yrs. Come on, we are talking about a measly .03 for every $ 20 spent. Can't we all swing that?

[Guest]

Not against the stadium,but dont understand why they dont add the retractable roof with the stadium,if thier going to do it,lets at least do it right this time.

[buzzsaw]

The only possible bad thing about the new stadiums location is that it would be right next to the garbage burning plant... that may get a bit stinky when the wind blows in the stadiums direction.I'm all for it and wouldn't have a problem paying the measly extra tax. But I understand why others may be against it.

[pikehunter]

From what I can see, the dissent is coming from three angles, all good angles, by the way. Here's my feeling on them:

Lack of Retractable Roof: I wouldn't mind seeing it either, but it's been made pretty evident that state legislators are not going to hike taxes high enough to pay for it, which is ok too. Really, if you were going to go to a game even if the stadium had a roof, you would probably pick a nice day anyway, right? Also, I tend to think that watching a game in a retractable roof stadium is more like sitting in a dome than a ballpark.

The Tax: I see not wanting to see taxes increase, especially for things you don't want to pay for, but unfortunately, that's the nature of the game. My taxes pay for all kinds of junk I don't use - I think many of us would be surprised. I guess I don't understand why I don't hear about any of that stuff until it's too late, but a stadium I somehow should have a choice about. And, the tax is very small, and I can, in essence, choose whether or not I want to pay for it based on where I shop.

Location:

I have the same thoughts about the garbage burner, but I never smell it when I go to Target Center, so I suppose how bad can it be? It will be unsightly though, that's for sure. At least we'll always know which way the wind is blowing!

[GullGuide]

This post is titled "Gully's Rant Number 1"

(anyone who know's about Foamy can appriciate that...lol)

Man, if you cant swing .03 for every $20 that's pretty bad.

I do not live in Hennipin county, but I do a fair ammount of spending there. I have no problem paying .03, .10, .50 or whatever. I truly think the people complaining are just complaining for complaining's sake. they have nothing better to do than raise a stink. Like Pike said, if we only knew what some of our tax dollars went towards, we'd all be a little ticked-off. At least with a stadium tax I KNOW where it's going, unlike most other taxes.

Why is it that every other city can get a stadium deal passed and we Minnesotan's think we are some higher entities or something and snub every attempt to get one done. I'm sick of it.

Some doofus on TV last night was screaming "No public money for public buisness" Well, d0rk, they and you had no problem giving the Guthrie Theater 50 some odd million dollars of PUBLIC MONEY and they are a PRIVATE BUISNESS....but nooooooo, the Guthrie is ART so thats ok....but GOD FORBID we do anything for SPORTS!!

And what's up with giving the GOPHERS money for a new stadium?!?! They are not going anywhere. Just GIVE them the dome. Paint it maroon and gold for all I care.

The Twins deserve a stadium first, then the Vikes, THEN the Gophers.

As far as a roof goes, they can build one "roof ready" without actually building the roof. It can be added at a later date. And from what I saw, the garbage burner will be behind home plate so no one will see it anyways. Also, by the time anything leaves the smokestack, it has been pretty much reduced to steam and there really isnt any smell to it.

[Willy]

3 cents for every 20 dollars. Come on people, you throw 3 cents on the ground all the time. We get taxed all the time for things we don't want. I won't use 95% of the things I get taxed for.

I agree with you Gullguide. I think people just like to complain about it. A lot of the same people that are complaining about us taxing for a stadium are the same ones that were whining to get light rail. How many of us will ever use that? I think more people are in favor of the stadium, the problem is, the complainers are the only ones you will ever hear from.

Then they push the vote back, just like every other proposal that we have ever had. JUST GET IT DONE!

[Giant_Jackpot]

The latest bill for dedicated funding was for 1/8 of one percent of the general sales tax. That is 0.125 percent. The County tax for the stadium is 0.15 percent. Darn near the same amount! If they have the stomach to pass the county tax, then why not pass the dedicated funding? (Notice I say IF a lot since we do not know if the states boys will approve the county tax)

Am I going to lose sleep over 3 cents per 20 dollars? Nope, but why can’t “they” apply the same logic to the dedicated funding? Riddle me that Bat Man.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Not living even close to the area the tax idea really doesn't bother me. I just wish it would be built somewhere that isn't in the middle of a major metro area. I don't know the cities very well and the outskirts are more appealing to me. But, I'm only one guy. Also, a roof would be nice for those of us who road trip long a long way. Can't please everyone, I know.

Having said all that, I hope something gets built.

[mnwild]

I still cant picture where this site is located.

Is it where they put the tailgating for Vikes fan's last year?? If so where will the go now??

[GullGuide]

Yes, it's right on top of the Rapid Park lot, right behind the Target Center. Nice location and a lot easier access than the dome to major freeways.

[Piker]

I'm generally against paying for stadiums, but I think if it's reasonable that I could support it. My reasoning is that if the Twins or Vikings were to move it would set off a series of events.

1. The leagues decides to expand, or possibly move a team.

2. Several markets are identified for expansion. The Twin Cities being one of them.

3. The state/city/county (taxpayers) end up in a bidding war to get a franchise back. This would be similar to how the Olympics are bid upon.

So in the end I think there will be a stadium(s) built using some percentage of public money. I don't really think it's right, but if the deal is fair then they might as well do it.

[Jarrod32]

On the issue of the dedicated funding for natural resources vs. this proposed stadium tax...the two are very different in one significant way. The stadium tax is above and beyond the current tax level...it is not taking anything away from other projects/uses. The dedicated funding proposals would take that amount FROM the existing revenue, taking it away from other potential uses. That may seem minor, but it is actually a pretty big difference.

I think most of the opposition comes from the basis that the team owner happens to be wealty, and people don't like helping out anyone who happens to be wealty (for years, the political left has been impressing upon us how inherently evil wealthy people are). But the net worth of the team owner is irrelevant to the analysis of the benefits that are/will be derived from the stadium.

[Down to Earth]

I say before they build the stadium, they better have a guarantee from MLB on a All Star Weekend at the new stadium.