AMSOIL

[icehook]

Just wondering if anyone uses amsoil 2cyl syn in their outboard, i heard it works very well. Thanks for your input icehook.

[Walleye Warrior]

Thanks for the reply Chuck. When I bought the boat, I was surprised it wasn't oil-injected. Figured all newer motors were. I did buy the manual and the motor actually came in both injected and non-injected models. I got the wrong one. Your tip on choking is what I've been doing. I'll just have to keep on doing it. Also, should I keep mixing at a 50:1 ratio with the Amsoil? Thanks again.

[ChuckN]

I only use Amsoil injection formula's, and these are not made for mixing with gas. I don't know what to tell you for using their pre-mix products since I've never had a need to use pre-mix formulas.

[TimR]

Warranty can be voided by using an oil that doesn't meet specs. You don't have to use Quicksilver in a Merc, but you must use a TCW-3 rated oil. That is the whole point of having minimum specs for certified oils. Same thing for your car - Dodge can't say you have to use their brand of oil, but they say you have to use SAE FG, or FC, or whatever the heck it is for auto's.

Sure, if you keep blowing powerpacks - it has nothing to do with the oil. But if you get piston scuffing, overheat issues, or a host of other problems, the finger can easily be pointed at the oil...

There are plenty of quality synthetic oils in the marketplace that ARE TCW-3 rated to try.

I'm editing this - no more posts on this for me - Use whichever oil you are comfortable using - but be aware that AMSOIL products are not TCW-3 certified, and that is what your outboard maker designed it's engine to use - at a 50:1 ratio for most premix OB's.

Tim

Quote:

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I'd agree on the oil debate thing, almost sure to be a big thread. Really surprised this one is not longer than it is.

Anyway, the reason I'm chiming is about the warranty part. Warranty cannot be voided merely by using a different brand of oil. Normally, the oil must meet or exceed specs to not interfere with warranty coverage, but I think the OEM must still prove that the oil caused the problem in order to completely reject a warranty claim. The problem is they (an OEM/dealer) have "experts" on their side, most often the customer does not have the expertise to argue the point.

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[MRWALLEYE2005]

I would give 100:1 ratio a try. If you use the Saber Outboard oil at 100:1 you need to use 1.3 ounces per 1 gallon of gas.

[picksbigwagon]

First time boat owner here guys, so take it easy, but how do I switch my boat over to amsoil? Do I run the tank dry, put in two gallons of gas with the amsoil mix, pull the boat out and go fill it up? I just bought a 89 40 hp evinrude and it also has a 9.9 ev kicker. I know I am supposed to run at 50:1 but after reading here, it says 100:1, is that safe? I don't want to start cranking more money into my "new" boat then I have too.....by the way it is a '89 16 fish hawk and I am stoked since I finally can go fishing when I want to

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Yes you should run the tank dry and put the mix and gas in if you use Ams Oil.

[JollyT]

I'm noticing something that might be confusing some people here. Standard oil mix is 50:1. Some of the synthetics are designed for 100:1. Don't use regular oil at 100:1, you'll burn things up.

Also, injector oil is not the same as the oil used for premix, especially with the synthetics. Buy what you need.

The synthetic oil will be more expensive, so don't switch thinking you'll save money. Besides you'd feel stupid wrecking a motor costing more than a $1000 trying to save $50 a year.

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Heres some info from there site

The most striking thing to most customers about AMSOIL Saber Synthetic Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oils are their 100:1 mix ratios. Why can AMSOIL Saber be mixed at 100:1 while other products are mixed at anywhere from 50:1 to 32:1? It's no mystery. The answer has to do with solvents, or in this case a lack of them. Solvents often comprise as much as 20 to 30 percent of a conventional premix two-cycle oil. However, AMSOIL Saber Synthetic Pre-Mix 2-Cycles Oils use a proprietary formulation that makes use of esters and no solvents. This technology actually delivers solvency characteristics while improving lubricity. Since AMSOIL is 100 percent active, it can be mixed at the economical 100:1 rate. AMSOIL Saber Synthetic Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oils are very cost effective compared to oils mixed at 50:1 or richer.

I just emailed Ams oil about the different ratios and will let you know what they tell me.

[Gus]

The Sabre bottles also give you the amount of gas to mix with to achieve a 80:1 ratio. I've been running my mix at 80:1 over the 100:1 and I find it is 10 times better than running standard oil at 50:1. I guess I'm so pleased with my performance at this ratio that I don't feel I need to go down to 100:1. If some of you are uncomfortable going 100:1 just go 80:1. I guarantee you you will still benifit from cleaner buring exhaust, smother idol, and less deposits on your plugs. FYI, if you buy the 8oz bottles you can mix 6 gallons gas to acheive 100:1 or 5 gallons to acheive 80:1. It's incredibly simple. Just pour in the whole bottle and add 5 or 6 gallons. I love not having to measure out half a bottle and save half of it without spilling like I used to do with regular oils.

FYI, I have found that a lot of Napa auto parts stores stock amsoil. I've now found it at two stores close to me.

[LABS4ME]

Walleye Warrior, I too had a '99 115 Johnson and it was a world of difference when I switched to AMSOIL. It ran a lot better, less smoke, less fouling of plugs and I could literally troll down to 2.3 mph for extended periods without loading up the motor. I constantly had problems with the motor's performance when I ran regular oil through it. Although it was an injected motor like Chuck's, it is in essence the same motor. Try buying there pre-mix and see if you notice a difference. Start out with an empty tank and new plugs and run through a couple tanks this summer and let us now what you think.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Walleye Warrior]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to try the Amsoil product. Anyone know of a place near Hibbing that would stock the pre-mix formula? Thanks again.

[jipper]

Just a question... I have 75hp merc.with oil injection..to switch to amsoil do I have to drain the merc oil out and start over.. You can not mix the two can you? Thanks

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Heres what they wrote:

According to my local Mercury Outboard Dealer you may use any 2-Cycle Motor oil that meets or exceeds API-TC grade specs. Saber Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oils meet that spec.

I would drain the oil before switching.

[ChuckN]

The container label said they can be mixed, but for best results it is not recommended. Just run down your oil tank as much as you feel comfortable and add Amsoil. It will be fine and there's no need to waste your other oil in the tank.

[TimR]

I really meant to stay out of this, but...

API-TC is designed for air-cooled HO, high rpm motors... and your local dealer recommended it? I wouldn't go there for repairs...

Here is a quote from an excellent article on marine use 2C oils:"It is important to note that oil designed to meet TCW3 specs. only (Ashless) will not protect an engine requiring API-TC (Low Ash) type oil. The converse is also true. Using a Low Ash oil in an engine designed for an Ashless type oil only could result in fouled plugs and gummy combustion chambers. " Gummy combustion chambers mean stuck rings. Stuck rings mean rebuilt powerheads. Maybe he needs more engines in his shop for work.

Rest of the article here:http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm

Tim

Quote:

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Heres what they wrote:

According to my local Mercury Outboard Dealer you may use any 2-Cycle Motor oil that meets or exceeds API-TC grade specs. Saber Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oils meet that spec.

I would drain the oil before switching.

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[MRWALLEYE2005]

Yes thats what the Mercury dealer said. On the Ams site they say that:

AMSOIL Saber Outboard (ATO) Synthetic 100:1 Pre-Mix 2-Cycle Oil is formulated with exclusive AMSOIL synthetic base oils and premium additives. Designed for lean mix ratios in two-cycle outboard motors, Saber Oil has excellent lubricity and cleanliness properties that control friction, wear, plug fouling, ring sticking and exhaust port blocking. AMSOIL Synthetic 100:1 2-Cycle Oil has been protecting and providing improved performance in two-cycle motors since 1973.

WalleyeWarrior: Napa in Virgina might carry it up there, I just ordered a quart from a repair shop that is a Ams dealer and I got it at retail price.

[Z-man2002]

who has the amsoil saber pre-mix in the brainerd area?

I checked fleet, two napa's, brothers motorsports, a bunch of boat dealers, and wally world, but can't find it. I want to get some for my evinrude, please help!

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Check with some repair shops, all they have to have is a Ams Oil dealer sign on the outside and they can order some if there not in stock. You could just order it online too, if you sign up for preferred customer you will get discounts on all products and can save more money than in stores.

[backlash 1]

Z-Man,

There is an AMSOIL dealer in Brainerd. The address is

219 1/2 Washington St. 800-487-3410. Call first before you make a special trip down. Sometimes their hours of business varys.

[BIG DS]

Amsoil is the best oil to use if you want to burn up a 2 stroke. I have spent the last 15 years working on 2 strokes with a good friend of mine and the racers that use Amsoil are in the shop three times as much as those that don't. Amsoil and Stens mix are designed for 2 stroke use, but not outboard 2 strokes. The engines do not hold enough heat and that seems to really effect the lubricity of the product. We tested both products on two identical outboards with the same result. Simply put, stay with the TC-3W rated oils!

[ChuckN]

I suppose my several years of using Amsoil DFI OUTBOARD injection oil is bad.

My motors have never skipped a beat, compression is A-1, and lots of tournament environments. I burn up to 10 gallons of the stuff a year. Snowmobiles too. I'm just a happy customer and I won't go back to the stink, fouled plugs, loaded up engines again that the typical TC-W3 oils were guilty of.

[TSCTSC]

OK....so what should I use for a 2 stroke Yammy with oil injection?

[EBass]

So is this a Ford vs Chevy type deal? I have a 25H Merc and I picked up some Amsoil 2 stroke oil. I mixed it 50:1 in a seperate tank but haven't used it. I have used the Merc 2 stroke oil (Quicksilver) and it's been fine, but really smokey. I had the power head replaced (cough) twice, and don't want to get another one. Maybe we should start a poll thread? I'm kinda skeptical now...but it's in my Toyota and has been fine. I guess there's only one way to find out for myself.

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Ams Oil 2 cycle hp injector oil is the one for oil injected motors. They carry that at Gander I know. I also have a Mercury motor that I use the Saber 100:1 oil. I used the Mercury one earlier this year and experienced troubles with that. My motor kept killing on me and smoking too and it was hard to start. I then switched to the Saber Outboard and its a whole different motor. It maximizes performance for longer runs out on a lake and its smokeless.

[TSCTSC]

So what motor oil is recommended then for 2 stroke oil injected? I must say, I noticed this earlier but after yesterday's trip out on the lake, I think the AMSOIL definitely does smoke more than the Yamalube. So ..... I need a suggestion for a good synthetic oil...otherwise, I would prob just stick to Yamalube next time. Thanks

[Surface Tension]

If your outboard manufacturer states use of TW3 oils then thats good enough for me. If synoil was that much better for your outboard wouldn't you think your manufacturer would suggest using them or even come up with their own line of synoil? The market is certainly there for premix and injector oils.

Plug fouling isn't caused by TW3 oils, its from an engine that has a problem. Treating the symptoms isn't fixing that problem. Better performance and lower emissions with a synoil? Wouldn't it be in your outboard manufacturer best interest to make the switch in their recommendations to synoil unless there was a good reason why they don't.

The jury is still out on this one for me and I'll continue using the old standard till my outboard manufacturer says otherwise.

[MRWALLEYE2005]

Synethetic oil costs more to make probably and the motor brands try and make 2 cycle oil for cheap and make a profit on it. The boat dealers like Mercury and Johnson are going to tell you to stick with what there brand oil they sell so they can get business. It wouldnt be on alot of websites and talked about alot if it wasnt a top of the line product.

[Northlander]

Ditto. I have been using Amsoil in my 4 stroke 115 yamaha and love it. Its in my ice auger, lawn mowers and weed wackers. Works great in them all. The motor guys arent going to start a synthetic oil because as stated above its too much $. Tons of people I know use the stuff and some are Pro Racers. My boat doesnt go threw half of what they do and they sware by Amsoil.

This is my experience so take it for what its worth. By what you feel comfortable with.

[Justfishing]

ST

Evinrude markets a synthetic oil XD-100. The Etec engines can be programmed for its use and use 1/2 the oil, I am gueesing that it is running about 100:1. I think Mercury also markets a synthetic oil.

They do burn cleaner and reduce or eliminate carbon buildup. Carbon buildup leads to a lot of engine failures.

In effect etec engines have switched to syn oils as I would think most people would pay the extra cost of the oil.

[Steve Foss]

One of my former fathers in law (yeah, yeah, I know, there HAVE been a lot of them), was an AMSOIL dealer back in the 80s before being in AMSOIL was cool. He was an Air Force B-52 bomber navigator.

He did it because, as a motorhead and a tech head, he'd seen the difference that the products made in his automobile engines. Years and years later, after having seen long-term engine wear and being able to compare, he still preferred AMSOIL.

I tried it in my ice auger for the first time two winters ago, and even at 50:1 it smoked less than the traditional 2-stroke oil, and the motor ran smoother with more power. This is a Strikemaster XL-3000 with the older 3 hp Tecumseh. It's running with AMSOIL at 75:1 now, mostly because I'm still a little leery of cutting the mix in half.

Last winter I got an old Yamaha Exciter 440 (thanks Chunkytrout!) and, after running it about 50 miles, drained out the remaining injector oil and put in Amsoil injector. It started easier, ran smoother and had more power. It ain't got much of a suspension for a guy my size, but it sure runs like a r---- ape!

Will these things hold up over time? I don't know. But, while I got rid of the former father-in-law's daughter, I'll definitely take his advice on motors.

I got the Strikemaster for a song, and it cuts circles around the other augers I've seen nearby. I bought it used, and have used it a lot for something like eight years. I got the sled on the cheap, too, so it's not like I have $30,000 invested in a new Toyota Tundra or anything.

However, the first thing I'd do after buying a new truck is make sure the cylinders are broken in and covert to AMSOIL. I'd do it now to my old Chevy pickup, but the valve cover gaskets leak so bad (yeah, I'll GET to it, OK?) I'd be pouring a LOT of money into AMSOIL's pockets. I like their oil, but not THAT much.