Trail Cameras

[Mille Lacs Guy]

Anybody use trail cameras? I had one for a short while but had issues with the batteries going dead in colder weather. When the batteries were good it took good pictures. What cameras have people used that have not had battery problems in cold weather? The one I had only took 2 doulbe A batteries. I have seen some that hold up to 8 C batteries.

Any info would be appreciated.

[Dan Wood]

We are working on testing a few units for reviews currently. I've got one digital and one 35 mm. BLB has a few as well that he is testing. The cheap-o Stealth is tough to beat for a cheap 35 mm system. I think I paid $60 for that one. It really does a great job for the money. I also have a Leaf River digital. I've had that one out for over a month with hunderds of pictures and it is still showing a full battery. The images are pretty decent quality. The only negative on the digitals is response time - they don't have as good a response time as the 35 mm systems. Being able to download images right away is very nice though, and I can capture a lot more images vs. film. I'm capturing about 100 per week and just deleting the ones that aren't of interest. If you use the camera a lot, the digital will save you money and allow you to capture many more images over the life of the camera. You do pay more up front though obviously. The Stealth is really a good system for the money.

A lot of guys are building these. I haven't done this myself yet. You can build a top of the line digital with a much quicker response (using the Sony P41 with a 1 second response) for around $200-250. The CamTrakker is the only digital that I know of that uses the P41, but those are very pricey. I'm pretty convinced the CamTrakker would be a very nice camera too.

[BLACKJACK]

I've been lusting after a trail camera the last several years, been trying to wait for the digital cameras to come down in price. When Camtracker first came out with a digital it was over $1200, now its down to $750 - still a lot of money to go leave hanging in a tree where it could 'walk' away. I see that the Stealth digital and Cuddleback digital are in the $300 range. Almost bought one of the cheap Stealths last weekend but with the hunting season winding down I thought I'd wait til next spring and see if the digitals come down some more in price. But I will have one by next summer!

Dan, what do you mean by 'quicker response time'? Are you talking about the sensor or the camera itself. Also, how are you viewing/deleting the pictures, at the camera or are you pulling out the memory cards and doing it on your home PC? Would you buy that Leaf River digital again?

How about the rest of you with trail cameras, what kind do you have, and would you buy it again?

Also, does anybody think that the flash and/or noise of a the camera is going to scare deer from that area? Especially bigger, smarter deer?

[Gofishleech]

I bought a stealth cam digital because the store was out of Cuddybacks. Got it home and had problems right from the start. Just learning the camera eat a set batteries in one day, back to the store it went!

In postings of "trail-cams" on varyous message boards the Leaf-river had great reviews so I bought one and am very pleased with it. I have taken well over 500 pics (most at night with flash)and still on the same set of batteries.

For viewing pics it has a small view screen but its small and hard to see the pics but I just have 2 media flash cards and bring one home for pc viewing. It is a great scouting tool.

As for 'quicker response time' I have heard that cuddy and leaf-river are not too bad, you just have to set it up with delay in mind. I set it on scrapes and it works great. For trail set up you just need to point the camera to shot dowm the trail as appossed to across the trail, or lay some sent to get the deer to stop in front of the camera. I think you can buy trail cams with quicker responce time but they are very expensive, I saw one for $1900,,,,way out of by budget!!

I would not buy a 35m camera, just a pain to to have film developed and over time it would be costly.

The leaf-river is a great camera for the money and is alot of fun, it was amazeing to see how many deer visit a scrape and not only bucks.

[lawdog]

I wish I had a digital! I have the DeerCam from NonTypical which was supposed to be such a good camera, but I think its a pain in the butt and I get WAY too many false pictures. Every roll of film has about 2/3 scenery pictures... Granted you have to expect some when you have it in an area with switchgrass and high wind, but its almost to the point where I don't bother putting it out... In fact, its sitting in the garage right now and wasn't out all fall. The film is another pain and expense that these other guys have mentioned. Digital is the way to go and I will probably get one of them before too long. Now, to figure out witch one...

[PerchJerker]

I've had a 35mm Stealth Cam for years and it was a good camera for the money, but I wanted digital. Batteries, film, and developing costs are not cheap, and I was taking a lot of photos.

I'd looked at digital trail cams for a few years and just wasn't happy with how fast (or slow) they are to take photos after detecting something, the problems with battery life, and the price you pay for what you get. So .....

This year I built 2 digital trail cameras myself. There's lots of info on the internet about this. I bought 2 circuit boards with PIR sensors from a company called PixController, bought 2 used Olympus digital cameras off eBay, and picked up some other parts and hardware in various places.

Some of the features I really like about the cameras I built:

1. I got fast chips in my circuit boards, so they take the photos within 1 second of the sensor detecting a deer. Several of the cameras on the market have delays in the 3 second neigborhood. Less chance the deer will walk out of the picture area before the picture gets taken.

2. I power the sensor with 4 'D' cells, which should last a full season. I power the camera with a 6 volt rechargeable battery (looks just like the batteries you use with your vexilar for ice fishing). The battery should last at least 30 days before it needs to be recharged. I set it at the base of the tree and have it wired to the camera.

3. The cameras have monitors so I can view my photos in the field, and I got extra memory cards so I can leave the camera in the field and get the photos on my computer.

The cameras really weren't too difficult to build. The biggest headache is that you have to take the camera apart and solder 3 or 4 wires inside it. Screw it up and you're out a camera. But I had no problems and have been really happy with my cameras. I only used them for a few weeks this fall, but I'm thinking about making another one this winter.

[Dan Wood]

Blackjack,

I have (2) 256 Mb flash cards that I interchange. Whenever I go out to the camera, I pull out the card and replace it with the one that has been downloaded and erased.

The slow response time is inherent to digitals. When you take a picture on a regular digital camera you'll notice how long it takes to snap the photo - I've read they are typically between 3-5 seconds. Where as a 35 mm will snap the photo pretty much instantaneously. The other thing that slows them down is they have an "auto power off" mode (this can be adjusted or disabled - you will sacrifice battery life obviously if you do this). This slows down the response time for the first picture after powering back on (will power back on when the motion sensor senses motion). I know when I go out to check on the camera, I can't get close to the 35 mm without it snapping a picture. I can always get up on the Leaf River and turn it off before it takes a picture. That is the only downside that I see. I'm feeding deer in my yard and using it there right now, so response time is not an issue. A scrape would be an excellent place to put up a digital. For pure trail use, where response time is much more critical, I'd look hard at a system with a Sony P41 or P32 (1.5 sec. response on the P32 vs. 1 second on the P41) or stick with the good old 35 mm. Most of the time the slower response probably won't be an issue, but it could be for trail use. The "fix" I've read is to quarter the camera at the trail so that you have more time with the animal in the field of view.

I'd buy another Leaf River. Very nice camera. Most places had them for $350, but I found it at the Fargo GM for $300. Jesses has them for $320 I think.

As Gofisleech mentioned, the battery life is VERY good on the Leaf river. I estimate that I have 500 pictures and still going strong on the same batteries (90% with flash).

[Mark Christianson]

First off, my apologies for a long post.

Boy lots of chat in a few posts. I will try to address the questions/issues if I can remember them all....

First off, I have 4 trail cameras. All of which are 35 MM.

1 - Trail Timer Photo Hunter

2 - Stealthcam MC2-G

1- Stealthcam MC2-GWM

(The MC2-GWM is exactly the same unit as the MC2-G, but sold at Walmart. Same exact unit)

The Stealthcams I have all use 8 AA batteries each.

The Trail Timer uses 2 AA batteries in the camera, and a 9v for the IR sensor.

The Stealthcams batteries I have will take typically 2 rolls of film or last for about 3 weeks, before needing replacement. I have had some usage last longer, and some obviously shorter, but thats about average.

The Trail Timer is much better on batteries, and it has less batteries to worry about as well.

I just bought rechargeable Energizer AA batteries a few weeks ago to test out how they hold up. I am getting what looks to be a max of 2 rolls of film with the rechargeables installed in my Stealthcams. But, its not a fair comparison because its colder now than in summer/fall. But, over time, the rechargeables should pay for themselves.

Also in regards to batteries, I stock up on the "cheapies" when I come across them. I think Menards had batteries a few weeks ago that were free after rebate. Its kind of a pain, but deals can be found on batteries. (That is if you happen to be at the store where the deals are located. I wont drive out of my way to save a couple bucks)

Film is another expense. Walmart has 5 rolls for something like $6.82 or something. Thats over a buck a roll. Not too bad. Again, sometimes there are deals out there, and I will grab rolls if they are cheap.

Then there is developing. Thats the part I hate, because I have to "wait" to see my pictures.

Developing is actually cheap if you do it right! Yes, cheap!

(excluding your gas and time to get them developed of course)

I use Walmart exclusively. You can take the whole roll of film that they develop, and pick out the ones you want to keep. You only pay for what you KEEP. Let them toss out all the "scenery" pictures, or pictures of the butt of a deer, or I just have them toss my antlerless pics too. I am only interested in the bucks. (Well, I keep some pics if they have a neat factor to them).

Typically I pay around a buck for each roll I develop.(5 or 6 pics)

So,,,,,

In the best case scenario.

You can get batteries free(or real cheap).

You can get film for around a buck a roll.

Developing can range in cost from under a buck to 6 bucks for the whole roll.

Bottom line, for my pics, my investment is around 3 bucks a roll.

I still want a digital or 10...

Personally, I like the 35mm Stealthcams, because I can afford to have a few of them, and cover a lot more turf.

One camera on our 120 acres of land isn't going to give me a good feel for what we have around. And the digitals at this point are not affordable enough for me to make that $300+ investement in several of them.

But, I do know that over time, the cost of the 35mm use is gonna add up. I know..... I just cant justify dumping a grand down for 3 digitals.

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks for the good responses guys! Dan, good explaination of the response time. Biglakebass, you made some good points about cost and covering more ground with multiple cameras. I'd almost feel guilty going to Walmart and picking out the bad pictures though...

The good news is that there are a lot more cameras on the market now - who ever heard of motion scouting cameras 5 years ago - so the price is bound to keep coming down.

Keep the advice coming guys!

[PerchJerker]

Dan makes a good point about the power down or auto-sleep mode on most digital cameras. One of the appealing things to me with the trail cameras I built is that the circuit boards regularly sends a "pulse" to the cameras, which prevents them from going into the sleep mode. My cameras are always on and "awake", which is how they take the photo within 1 second of the sensor detecting a deer. And with the rechargeable dry cell batteries I use, I can leave my camera for over 30 days and take hundreds of photos (depending on the size of the memory card) without having the battery run down.

[lawdog]

I don't know that I could (or would try) to make one of your camera's perchjerker, but how much you have invested in parts in them for comparison sake...

[Mille Lacs Guy]

I want a 35mm camera so I am interested in the Stealth Cam. I have looked at the one at Wal Mart. What is the range that motion will be picked up on this camera? I thought the flash was 30 feet.

I also see Cabelas has a Stealth Cam for $120 that is good for the flash going to 90 feet but how far out will it detect motion or heat?

Thanks in advance.

[PerchJerker]

I don't remember the exact totals but it was roughly $225 for a 1.3 megapixel camera and $275 for a 2 megagpixel camera. Those are complete costs covering everything, including the rechargeable batteries, 4 big memory cards, a memory card reader for my computer, and the big killer -- shipping charges. I made 4 or 5 purchases on eBay and 2 other purchases that I had shipped to me, and at the end when I was adding it all up I just about choked on what I spent on shipping. If I was to do it again I'd be smarter about the shipping costs.

The basics were $70 for the circuit board, $65/$95 for the cameras, $20 for the case, and $25 for the rechargeable dry cell battery.

I figure they cost me about the same as buying a camera, but I figure there's some pretty good advantages to the cameras I built. And it was fun working on them. I got somewhere over 300 photos on them this fall before I pulled them for the winter.

[Iceman77]

Making your own cameras is definately the way to go if you are going to setup a few extra cameras around the area. I built mine for: Pix controller($70) + D360l digital camera($50 on ebay) + case($12) + S/H charges(about $15)= $147. It takes about 4 hours to drill all the holes in the case and get everything mounted and sealed. The nice thing about the D360l camera is that you don't need to take the camera case apart and solder any wires. This is simply a plug and play camera with the Pix controller board. Also, the advantages to the homebrew cameras are cheaper, better warmup times, generally a more powerful flash(depending on camera used), better IR sensors, pride of building your own and... oh yeah.... saving a ton of money. There are plans online that step you through building your own.

[Dan Wood]

Mille Lacs Guy,

The Stealth I have is the MC2-G, it was selling for 59.99. The number of false pictures is almost zero on that camera (for a 35 mm camera where your paying for developing photos, that becomes very important). The Leaf River takes more false photos for sure, but it isn't as big a deal because you just delete the photos. The digital is just so nice for getting at your photos right away and taking a lot of photos. I'm not sure on the 90 ft. flash. I would think 90' could be pushing the limits on the motion detector not to mention the image from a 35 mm at 90'. I doubt you'll be able to see much from a 35mm at 90'. A really bright flash would be helpful for those pictures in the 15-30+' range though. The only drawback on more flash is that you'll use more batteries.

Here are a couple photos from the Leaf River this morning at the feeder in my yard (these deer aren't hunted). There is a big buck in the area that I am hoping will come in, but he hasn't yet. So far, 3 small bucks have been coming in and a bunch of does and fawns..

[Mark Christianson]

Ironic Dan, I was just going to post a couple from the Stealthcam MC2-G. I scanned them at medium quality to keep the file size down, so they are a little fuzzy looking on line.

But, the digital does have superior quality overall.

These are in my backyard as well.

[B. Amish]

i have a leaf river digital

one thing that is so nice about digital cameras/pictures is that you can edit them to see the deer better, and you can also zoom in to get a better look at a deer if its a little further away.

one thing i didn't like about the leaf river digital was the instruction booklet that came with it, you'd think that there would be some illustrations and better directions but besides the basic setup of the camera, they kind of leave you hangin

the response time may be a bit slower, but like said before, if you put the camera where deer are stopping (scrape) or angle them down the trail you can compensate for the slower time a bit.

[Captain B.R.K]

Thanks for the info. guys about the cameras! Had an itch to get out and buy one. THEN found out my soon to be father-in-law bought 2 of the Stealth brand cameras that Dan has been talking about! Can't wait to put them up in this spring.

[18 inch Crappie]

Iceman and Peachjerker I did a search on the net for Building your trail cam but found nothing to help me. Do you mind sharing the site that helped you guys build your cam?

Brian

[PerchJerker]

The PixController site has a lot of info, especially detailed info about the circuit boards, chips, cameras, and how to modify them. There's a site called Jesses Hunting Page (or something like that) - it has a lot of articles, but they tend to be older and for film cameras - but they have forums that should have a lot of current info in them. I ran into a few other forums, which all came up when I was searching through google and yahoo, and found some good info there too. Most of the stuff I found I ran across while I was looking for info on cameras like the stealth cam and cuddyback and camtrakker.

To be clear, I didn't have step by step plans that I followed for making my camera. There were step by step instructions from PixController on how to take apart and modify the Olympus cameras I bought, but everything else was an accumulation of info and ideas and suggestions from lots of different places, and I basically made my cameras the way I wanted them with the features that I wanted (which is what appealed to me in the first place).

[lawdog]

I see that Pixcontroller site has a 5 step guide to building a trail cam on it now...

[Dan Wood]

Here's a decent one that came in last night... I was watching them from the window, so I went and swapped cards after he left... They have really started to let their guard down this past week with the colder temps... It would be a good time to be out bowhunting... hmmmmmm... ice fishing or bowhunting?? As for the flash disturbing the deer - I have it set to take pictures every minute and I got about 8-10 photos of this buck before he left in about 10 minutes.

[18 inch Crappie]

I see that Gander has the MC-2 for $49 in Sundays ad.

[BLACKJACK]

Nice pictures Dan! I like the way the date and time print out on them too. On some of the posted pictures, you can't tell what the numbers mean...

By the way, what type of feeder do you have? How many pounds will it hold? Where did you get it?

[Dan Wood]

Yea, one issue I have with the Stealth camera is that you can only choose date or time, not both. It is really nice to have the date and time on the picture.

The feeder is the On Time Fatboy II. It seems to work fine. I think the squirrels are going to find a way in the bottom eventually, but they haven't yet. If I did it again I'd probably look at one with a digital timer and varmit guard (I think the guard can be added). The timer on these is very rough - I can never tell within about 30-40 minutes what I have it set at. It says 225 lb. capacity, seems to fit right near the 200 lb. mark though. The way I have it, it lasts just over 2 months. 1.5 lb. per feeding (once in the a.m. and another in the p.m. / 3 lb. per day). I've been putting corn down in addition to this every once in awhile. 3 lbs. a day isn't enough during the dead of winter. You can double the output by adding another 6 volt battery, which I may end up doing yet. I read good reviews on the On Time feeders when I purchased. I'm not overly impressed with the quality of this thing, but so far it has worked okay.

Oh yea, I ordered the feeder from Cabelas.

[Mark Christianson]

I wish I could limit the food my feeder puts out. Holy crap. The animals almost make me have to take out a second mortgage. I just have a home made hopper with a tray on the bottom. It holds over 500 lbs of corn at a time, and it doesn't take a long time to empty it out.

At work I feed the deer as well. In the dead of winter, I put in two 5 gallon buckets pretty much each night. Thats around 50 lbs, and yes, they clean it out in a night many times. I have lots of great pics, cuz I hang a camera on the feeder there as well. No true Monster bucks, but several very respectable ones over the last few years.

PS - enough nice bucks that 2 guys got busted by the DNR a couple years ago I guess within eyesight of the building. Sad but true.

[BLACKJACK]

biglake, your example of going thru a ton of corn is why I'm contemplating a timed feeder. In the past I've put out several pheasant feeders made out of hardware cloth with shelled corn in it and the deer can clean up 100 pounds in a week. I do have a timed feeder that you attach to a bucket, then put up in a tree, but its small, if I attach it to a bigger barrel, I'm afraid I won't be able to pull it up.... Like the idea of your trail camera and feeder station though!!

[BLACKJACK]

Dan, I was just out looking at my Cabelas catalog. Lots of options on feeders with tripods! How do you fill yours, haul a stepladder out there? Any problem with deer knocking it over?

[Perch Jerker]

18 inch Crappie,

Thanks for the heads up on the $50 MC-2 cameras.

I used one in late Sep for bear hunting and it worked great. I plan on having about 5-6 hunters this coming fall instead of just one so I'll rotate the two cameras (1 green & 1 camo to tell them apart) to the 6-7 baits depending on how they're getting hit. I'm kind of the ring leader for the newly created 'Bear Camp' since I've been hunting them for 9yrs.

I only use the trail cameras for bear hunting in warm weather and check them at least once a week (every 7-4 days) so battery life & date stamps are not important, but the time stamp is.

I'll post some pics when I get the chance.

PJ

[Dan Wood]

Yea, I was going through too much corn without the feeder.. those deer can finish off 100 lbs. of corn pretty quick if they have it available to them...

I have the tripod that comes with the On Time feeder... It isn't the greatest, but it hasn't tipped or anything yet. It has 3 sections to get it about 9' in the air. I only use 2 of the sections and have it up about 6'. At 6' I can get the corn into it without a ladder. If you went 9' you would need a ladder to fill it. 6' seems to be high enough, they go under it without any problem. It would spread the corn out more up at 9' I'm sure. At 6' it spreads maybe a 10-15' diameter or so, which is enough for the area that I have it in..