bolt action vs auto vs pump

[moby1]

Which do you prefer and why. Why are bolts supposed to be more accurate? After 5 years of deer hunting with a bolt, I want to change. I have a pre 64 Winchester model 70 in 300 mag. I used it until this year and want to keep it nice so I bought the savage synthetic with simmons scope combo. Walking into my stand Tuesday noon, I walked up on a monster buck. The only buck I have seen while hunting prior to this was a spike I shot. The buck was looking away and due to its size, the fever set in. I shot once (probably a butt shot). The buck took off runing and swung back to my left in a semicircle. I cracked off another round as it was busting through the swamp and brush. I tracked blood (it seemed like a lot) through 2 miles of wet and swamp before it went into private posted land :+(. I was just sick with the situation. I almost came home that night (tuesday). I still cannot believe the size of the deer. Anywho, I was using the new savage bolt action but feel that if I had a pump I could have gotten off 3 or possibly 4 shots instead of the two and the deer would be at the taxidermist now! If I would have started and stayed in the stand all day like I did the 2 days before that, I could've jumped out of the stand onto the bruisers back. I have been reliving the scenario every couple of minutes since tuesday. I think its time to trade in the new savage for a used pump (money is the issue or I would just go and buy one).

[pikerliker]

Hey Moby I think you said it yourself. Bolts are made for accuracy not rapid shots. I know this is a bit late but when you take your first shot if you get the "buck fever shakes" just lower your rifle, take a deep breath, and then pick it back up and line up again. I did this with a big 9 pointer back in 92 and it worked great. I got this advise from a guy who shot on a shooting team in the ROTC back in college. If you make that first shot count, then you won't need to fire off a bunch of rapid shots after that. I also use a bolt action and I love it. I feel for you. For the most part I rifle hunt in N MN but I lost a big one back in 2001 down near Henderson MN. I was shooting a plain slug barrel with only the bead on the barrel (no scope or sights). I drew blood and lost him also. He was a big beautiful buck and he was standing broadside to me at about 60 yards. I shot through some brush to get him so my slug may have deflected a bit. He's the only deer I have lost this way and it still bums me out. You'll have other opportunities so don't hang your head yet!

~piker

[Jmnhunter]

i love my semi-auto 7400 Rem. weather master. my brother has a bolt savage 30-.06 and loves it.

-good luck

jn

[lawdog]

I have killed tons of deer with my 7400 Rem autoloader also. 30-06 with Leupold Vari X II. In my personal opinion, the supposed improvement in accuracy of a bolt will 99% of the time not even be percievable in a field/hunting situation. If you have an auto you are comfortable with and believe in that will get you your deer!

[BarryG]

Keep in mind that this is My opinion. I think you should give up the bolt and buy a single shot! Make the first shot count and you don't have to worry about a second, third or fourth shot. I had a semi-auto when I used to hunt and had a problem with making the first shot count, I could unload a clip FAST! When my son started deer hunting I bought him a bolt action and only let him put one bullet in at a time. He started hunting when he was 11 he is 16 now and has shot 6 deer and only missed 1. He killed a decent 8 pt yesterday on the opening day of our rifle season. That's not too bad shot 7 bullets and killed 6 deer. I am proud of him!

[Big-Al]

If you use an auto or a pump the same as you would use a bolt or a single shot for that matter, the accuracy difference is minimal. If you use an auto like alot of people use it, ie: There is a deer, I think I will throw some bullets at it, then the bolt is way more accurate.

Give one hundred hunters one bullet (in whatever gun), and give the next one hundred an auto and a full clip of bullets. I would bet that the bullet fired from those "single shots" would result in way more deer hanging than the first shot from the autos. There would be way fewer wounded deer lost also. Discipline is the name of the game.

[mille lacs muskie bum]

I like the lever action 30-30 marlin. It has the brushwhacking and knockdown power needed. It is very reliable and allows you to get many followup shots.

[Eric_Sieve]

LEVER ACTION?? Ewe, I almost killed myself twice when I was younger with that gun!!!! But the beauty is in the eye of the beholder!! I would personally go for a semi-auto or pump action.....

[Jmnhunter]

i used my dads classic lever action. i love it, very reliable, shot my first 2 deer w/ it. it sure cuts through that brush!

jn

[huskminn]

I personally prefer the bolt action to others for a couple of reasons.

First of all, it is a "safer" gun. When the bolt is open, it cannot be fired. Period. With a shell in the chamber and the bolt open, that gun can be dropped, thrown, etc and it will never go off. Secondly, it is more accurate than most of the others. I need a rifle reliable out to 350 yards. A bolt does that for me. That is not to say another rifle can't do the job--it is just a proven fact that bolt action rifles tend to hold tighter, more consistent groups than others.

I also have a soft spot for the lever action Model 94. It is a classic and, at close ranges, it is a very effective gun.

There is no such thing as a "brush-busting" gun. I am always bothered by people having confidence that their rifle will bust through the brush. All centerfire rifles deflect when they hit an object of any size. The question is, if a deflection occurs and your shot doesn't hit where you're aiming, is it better to have the foot lbs of a 30-30 behind the shot or a 30-06?

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you shoot--a .243 or a .416--if your shot placement isn't good, you're risking wounding that animal and perhaps losing it. I don't take shots through brush--period.

[lawdog]

I totally agree that there is no such thing as a "brush buster" bullet. I've always thought that saying inappropriate myself and like you never shoot through thick brush.

I still maintain however, that the VAST majority of hunters in the VAST majority of shooting situations would not even be able to detect the minimal accuracy gain of a bolt over an auto. I'm assuming that they'll shoot each shot, regardless of the weapon, the same way and no one I've ever hunted with (or ever would) shoots an auto with the aforementioned mentality of I can just spray bullets out there to get the deer. I've had mostly one shot kills with my auto but a couple 3 or 4 shot and even one 5th shot kill with it.

[Mr Special]

Moby1,

It's okay bud, some things just weren't meant to be. I've seen you shoot and being that the blood was frothy and bright red. That typically is a lung shot. Some deer are just bionic. I personally like your setup.Under 250ydrs I don't think a semi-auto will differ that much. Talke to ya later bud.

[dwag70]

I own both and prefer the Bolt action Semi auto tend to get finicky as they age Mine will only accept one type of shell without problems you put anything else in the rifle will not extract the spent shell. I can usally get a 2nd shot with my bolt but have never had the chance to take 3 shots with either gun so. I think by that time you are just flinging lead. Fast follow up are nice but the bolt i think forces me to take my time because i know i dont have the fastest follow up shot. But you can get one off Plus if you ever have issues with your gun in the field a bolt is alot easier to take down that a semi in a field covered in leaves were little parts get lost JUST MY 2 CENTS I vote for the bolt

[huskminn]

Lawdog,

I guess I would have to agree with you that the vast majority of hunting situations effectively don't require the additional accuracy of a bolt action. Especially in MN, where ranges tend to be shorter. I hunt out West a fair amount and I do feel the need for that extra .05-.1 MOA provided by the bolt.

That having been said, there have been some bolt action rifles manufactured that had dismal accuracy and there have been some lever, pump and auto's manufactured that have had pretty darn good accuracy. A lot of it depends on the individual gun, the individual round shot through it and, of course, the individual shooting it!

The bottom line is to have your gun sighted in, know your gun and your round's trajectories and make good, safe shots. A good hunter who knows his .22 rifle like the back of his hand can kill many more deer than a poor hunter with a brand new, out of the box 300 Weatherby Mag.

[Pistolero]

I’ve hunted with both. A Remington 742 simi-auto in 308 Remington and a Winchester model 70 in 30-06. My shots have never been over 100 yards, so it really does not matter which one I use. I have not had to shoot a deer more than once for many years now. I agree with everyone about making that first shot count. And unless your shooting long range, a pump, lever, simi-auto, bolt or single shot should have no problem doing the job. IMHO.

[Jmnhunter]

good point Pis. totally agree

[moby1]

Thanks everyone for the input. I had to go to K.C. for work. Talk about deer, there are a lot of red streaks between here and there on I35. Anywho, Yes I agree with those of you who pointed out the obvious about making the first shot count. All of the others I have shot have been downed with one shot except for one of them. This particular situation could have come to a better conclusion if I had been patient and made the best shot first or if I could have cracked of another due to the deers particular path of travel, my position...etc. Never had buck fever before. Guess now I see what its all about. AHHH the joys of hindsight. Guess I know what to do next time. Thanks again and Good Luck

[Double D]

Am I the only one who shoots a pump? Remington 7600 pump 30-06. I've always liked it, the second shot can come fast if you need it to. I personally think the accuracy in a bolt comes from knowing that second shot will not be so fast so deep down you make it count.

Just my opinion.

DD

[Gissert]

I shot a 742 for nearly 20 years, and shot a lot of deer with it. I just grew to dislike the trigger pull. Lots of take up, draggy, and just not consistent.

My brothers BAR has a better trigger pull, but I still prefer the trigger on a bolt or a single shot.

[lawdog]

Gissert, I'd bet a good gunsmith could fix up that trigger for you. No sense abandoning a good gun like that for such a minor issue...

[Chris Haley]

I've got a BAR and had to buy a new box of shells this year after fives years of hunting and shooting 12 deer. 12 shots-12 deer. Two shots a year for four years to make sure it's still on. So the auto loader doesn't cause a person to shoot more than once unless there is more than one deer. Last year I shot three within the span of a minute. I had a doe come through I shot, and right behind her an eight and a ten. I don't think even Oswald could have dropped both those bucks with a bolt.

[Gissert]

lawdog -

I tried to go that route, and gunsmiths did not want to touch it for liability reasons. Both guys I took it to said they did not want to do trigger work on a semi-auto. There are excellent aftermarket trigger assemblies available, but they are over $200.

I still have a soft spot for that old 742, and will probably still use it from time to time. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I shoot left handed. The gas blast and powder residue in the face made for a good flinch at the range when shooting off sandbags. Shooting offhand, the blast is not too noticeable.

I have grown to love my bolt, mainly because the trigger, and it is nice to have a left handed gun.

Follow up shots have been quick enough, provided I practice. For this I just put the rifle to my shoulder and practice cycling the bolt. Once the technique is repeated, you can crank out shots quite quickly. I was able so get a doe and a nubbin buck in the space of a 30 yard opening two years ago.

[Bushwacker]

Moby1, this really has nothing to do with your original question, but for the record I shoot a Browning A-Bolt 30-.06 bolt action. I started out with a pump, but when it came time to buy my own gun I went with a bolt. My dad shoots a Ruger .270 that is the sweetest rifle I have ever held, so I decided to go with a bolt. I can shoot my A-Bolt faster than I could shoot a pump. It has a short action, and I can have the next shot chambered without even having to let the target out of the scope.

Gissert,

My buddy had his Remington trigger lightened by a Gander Mountain (St.Cloud) gunsmith for around $50.00 last year. I think he put it down to a little less than a 2lb pull. He had it done to his .243 that he occasionally uses for varmit hunting.

I totally agree with BarryG's method that he used/uses with his son. When I first started hunting I used a 30-.06 Remington 760 pump. My first deer I shot at and hit 5 times. My dad, grandpa, uncles, friends all came running thinking I must have run into a flock of deer, nope, only one spike buck. I continued my rapid fire technique until one cold morning, I dropped my clip out of my stand when I pulled my gun up for a shot at an 8-pointer. At that point I knew I only had one shot so I better make it good. I concetrated and squeezed instead of pulled and the deer ran about 10 yards and dropped after that(6 years ago) I have shot 10 deer with 11 shots. Not too bad considering my first six years I shot 3 deer with about 12 shots.

[bigbucks]

I agree there's no need to blow a deer to pieces. I make my first shot count, but unless I can clearly see a deer spraying I shoot them again if they give me the chance, until they go down or it's absolutely obvious they're about too. I've shot a lot of deer & seen a lot of deer that acted like they were hit well enough, but weren't. Get them on the ground, once they're there, they don't usually get away...

Who cares if it took more than one shot to kill a deer? Do they hand out prizes for that or do the deer get bigger if they're only shot once? The most important thing is to kill the animal & make sure it's done quickly.

[Chris Haley]

Moby1

Did you buy an auto loader??? There is one in the for sale forum for $350 It's a rem 7400 30.06

[big drift]

Use as much firepower as necessary to get the job done quick and clean. use what works for you, and try before you buy.