Help with buying a rifle.

[SCUMFROG]

What would be a good first rifle for me? I'm going to start deer hunting with my dad next year and don't have a rifle. I just don't know that much about buying a gun like this.

[climbmda]

There are lots of things to consider. First of all is budget. It makes no sense to buy the top of the line for a first rifle, but you will want something reliable.

Other variables are the area you will be hunting, and your experience with firearms. If you hunt in dense areas / heavy woods, you do not need a caliber for long range shooting. If you hunt over fields, bogs, etc. then you will want more range.

I have hunted in several different areas, and use a different rifle for each. In dense areas, I use a shotgun with a rifled slug barrel, or a 30-30 Lever action. In open areas, I use a pump 30-06, or a bolt action 300 Win-mag.

My favorite "all around" deer gun is the 30-06. It packs a pretty good punch and will get me out around 250 yards with good accuracy. I have better range with the 300, but like the 30-06 a lot. It's a versatile round.

I also love that old 30-30. It was the first rifle I ever hunted with.

You might think about scouring the gun shops for used or onsignment rifles, as well. You may be able to get a pretty good one, already scoped, for much cheaper than buying new. However, you should know your guns, or bring someone who does. You want to make sure that the gun is in good shape before buying used.

I'm sure there are people on the board with much more expertise than me, but this is my $0.02.

[kjgmh]

My first rifle was a Savage with a 2-7 scope. Not the prettiest gun but shot good. Now my sister uses it. If I remeber right paid about 250 for the and about 120 for the scope. Can not go wrong with a 30.06.

[Gissert]

Above all, get one that fits you well. What I mean by that is when the rifle is shouldered, you should not have to move your gun and head around to aquire a good sight picture. Any good gun shop should be able to help you with the fit.

When I bought my muzzleloader this summer, I had my heart set on some of the higher priced units. Well, most of them did not fit me well, so I went with a lesser priced unit that fit me.

Be sure to try some of the youth models if you are smaller framed.

I won't discuss caliber, that is a very personal thing, and you will get a jillion opinions. It is hard to go wrong with anything out there, really.

I used to shoot semi autos, but no longer. I just grew to dislike the triggers on them. I shoot a bolt gun now, and am much happier. My autos are Remington 742's, and my brother shoots a Browning. I much prefer the Browning.

Savage and Remington both make a bolt gun combo package that comes with a scope. Good guns for a reasonable price.

Ruger and Browning are also good choices.

For lever guns, I like the Browning BLR and the Savage 99's. The Winchester model 94 is hard to beat also.

For what its worth, my main gun is a Savage 111 in .338 (I hunt elk, too)It is somewhat ugly, but is the most accurate of all my deer calibers. I would buy another one in a heartbeat.

[f1sh1nfool]

My first rifle was given to me. it was a ruger .243. it is a good rifle for maybe out to 150 to 200 yds but drops fast. the biggest thing with that caliber is it isn't good for game much bigger than a deer. I bought a new browning bolt action rifle in 7mm winchester short mag caliber. this rifle is awesome out to three hundred yards, has a noticeable recoil, but not extreme and I have used it to take game up to the size of an elk. great balistics. the draw back is that if you don't load your own cartridges you can pay up to $30 for 20 rounds of ammo. one of the best ways to get some good info on hunting rifles is to do a search for that type of forum. then try picking up some hunting magazines. there are alot of hunting magazines out there this time of year that discuss this very topic. good luck

[Rost]

I would simply ask around a bit. Stop into a gun shop and explain what you want to be able to do with the gun and where you'll be hunting. They should lead you in the right direction. I shoot a 300 Win Mag, which is WAY overkill for deer (it does knock them down rather fast though ).

If I were to do it over again, I would have bought a 25-06. It is fast, flat shooting, and will take a deer down in a hurry.

[P.DONA]

I like the Savage package, .243 with a 3-9 scope.. Very accurate, innexpensive, and a great rifle out to 150 yards or so if you have to. I've harvested deer from 8 yards to 150 yards with this caliber. A good Starter weapon for a youngster, cause not much recoil, too

[SCUMFROG]

I'm no youngster, I'm 33. I have heard that a 30-06 is a good starter. I'm going to ask the shop about this..

[New Yankee]

I'd start out light as well - I shot a Winchester featherwieght model 70 in '06 for a few years that really smacked 'ya!.

However, if your comfortable with the recoil of magnum 12 gauge rounds, a 30-06 is similar IMO - a sharper pop, but similar.

That being said, my wife's .243 is about the sweetest shooting gun I've used. I shoot a 7mm '08 which is the .308 cartridge necked down to .28(7mm) or .243 for the .243(the .308 is a good round as well).

If Elk is a possibility, you can't go wrong with a 30-06, although I'd sure consider the .308 as well. I've seen many deer go along way after being shot with .270's - the energy transfer of my slower 7-08 seems to keep most of it in the deer. I've got a buddy who shoots a 300 Win Mag w/140 grain ammo and I've NEVER seen an exit wound on his deer - the bullet simply fragments on impact. They drop like they were hit by trucks too! I just don't care for that much recoil.

The Savage packages are a great way to go starting out - I've heard in their price range they are the most accurate out of the box.

Good luck and do as my Grandmother said "listen, then do what the heck you want to"

Let us know what you end up with - it's kind of like fishing tackle - regardless of what you have you always want something else!

[SCUMFROG]

Well I think I'm going with a 30-06. I like the remington model 710 bolt action. But now I have a question about a semi auto. Would I like that better? How much different are they?

[Gissert]

Semi-autos are fine, really. I shot one from the time I was 13 until I was 32. I shot a lot of deer with my old Remington 742 in semi auto. They are great for a quick follow up shot. It's accuracy was good (not great).

I had begun to shoot my 220 swift bolt quite a bit, and when I would go shoot my auto again, I could not stand the trigger pull any more, It was creepy, heavy, and not at all percise. No gunsmith would try and adjust it for me due to liability concerns. Aftermarket triggers were a couple hundred dollars, and I could not justify that expense.

In 1998, I punted and bought my bolt gun (Savage), and have never looked back.

My brother shoots a Browning BAR, and it has a much better trigger pull than the Remingtons, but I still prefer the nice crisp pull of a bolt gun.

If you can find a gun shop that will let you dry fire a semi auto vs a bolt, you can get some idea of how you like the trigger pull.

[Ufatz]

Most importantly I think, is to keep in mind WHERE this rifle is going to be used. If 90% of its use is going to be here in NW MN then you don't need a super fast lightweight bullet. And you won't need to make (or try) 300 yard shots.One advantage of an '06 is that you can load it up or down(bullet weights) and use it close or our to a couple hundred yards (if you have practiced enough to make those shots) when needed.

Best weapon in most of NW MN is a shotgun w/good slug barrel and good reciever sight. Big ol' slug puts 'em on the ground right now and good to 75 yards and more if you practice.

[irvingdog]

STOP!!! DO NOT BUY THAT 710!!!) They are absolute junk! Trust me. I know!!

[Scupper]

I'll second what Gissert said about fit. I've used a 30'06

and 12 gauge for over 30 years. I never felt a good fit. I had both shoulders rebuilt due to injurys and had to make changes to my choice of weapon. I was impressed with the way the 7mm.08 fit and purchased it. It tucks in just right for me and has all the power I require for Minnesota.

Whatever weapon you choose, get comfortable with it.

There are gun shops that will arrange instruction and use of weapons for a fee.

Good Luck...

[SCUMFROG]

Irvingdog, why do you say that? What's wrong with them? I don't know that much about guns and don't want to make a mistake buying some thing I'm going to hate. I also don't have a lot of money to spend on some of those guns out there. I want some thing that will last and that I can hand down to my son. I know every one has they're brand and don't like the others for some reason. I just need help buying the right gun for me.

[Valv]

Just a curiosity, I am in same position as Scumfrog, I have my eyes on a nice Ruger 25.06, which is a caliber I liked a lot when I lived in Wyoming (very straight bullet with little drop for long distance, we used to shoot coyotes at 500 or more yards ). Is this a caliber allowed in MN to hunt deer, or do I need a larger one ?

[MNice]

25.06 is legal, .23 is minimum cal in MN

[New Yankee]

I'd look at a Tikka T3 - just over five bills and has been praised by David Petzal of Field and Stream as well as others. Tikka is made by Sako and imported by Beretta. They use the same trigers as the high end Sakos. I've got the earlier version "Whitetail" series - I traded a Browning A-Bolt for it and don't have any regrets.

If the bucks are a bit tight, the Savage can be had for about a hundred less.

Equally important is a good quality scope. Not trying to sound elitest, but you're likely to spend the same amount you will on a scope as a gun. Leupold and Nikon make solid scopes, and of course the German optics are usually thought of as the best.

Good luck!

[HOF#13]

Valv,

I am the proud owner of a Ruger 25-06. This is by FAR the sweetest gun I have ever owned. Mine is even a heavy barrel, but I will carry that thing hunting anytime, any distance. That is how much faith I have in this gun. Not to mention that it is an excellent caliber.

I don't think you could go wrong there Valv!!!!!

[WaveWacker]

You can't go wrong with the 30-06. Great all around caliber. For which model/make of a rifle to buy. It may be a little more the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) is a proven rifle. My father and I bot have one in the .308 caliber and they super!!!

My Uncle shot an older remington pump 30-06 and at times had problems with it jamming. Always told him to not miss with his first shot and he would have to worry about this.

Good Luck

WW

[irvingdog]

O.K. fellas. Here's the skinny on the 710 (no, I have no brand-bias, I love them all) .

They fall apart for no good reason.

They jam.

They are 50% pot metal, 50% plastic. (sometimes plastic is good, but.....)

9 out of 10 710 owners will give you the same feedback. Sure, 350.00 is cheap, but not if it does not work. Spend 375.00 and get a Savage, or a bit more on ANY OTHER GUN and you will be happier. This includes all other Remingtons. Just not the 710.

[Borch]

You can definitely do better that the 710 for $350. For instance the HOWA or Weatherby Vangard if you're in the market for a new gun($325-$375). Otherwise there are countless options if you're willing to shop for a use rifle.

[SCUMFROG]

Ok, how about some thing like a turkey/deer combo? Talking to more people I work with and friends that shot. And they say that is better cause you can use that gun year round for any thing. Just change out the barrel. That sounds great to me cause I am hoping to go turkey hunting next year, but I would have to use my dad's shotgun.

[MNice]

Ah crap, now I have to throw away my 710 cause it falls apart.

[New Yankee]

The more I reflect on your question, the answer may be to try to find a GOOD friend or relative that will let you use one of their guns.

We/Me may be a bit ahead of the process not knowing what or how much field/firearms experience you might have, or as mentioned prior, what type of terrain and how you'll be hunting (stand/stalk/drive/etc).

If you're going to a camp, usually some one has an extra 30-30 or a slug gun that they may let you use for the trip. Your dad likely knows a buddy or uncle (or aunt!) that might have and extra as well. It'd sure let you see what you're in for before you commit a bunch of cash, and give you an idea of what YOU want. I'd sure look to see what evryone around you is shooting as well - they'll usually use what works best in the area.

That being said, a Remington Express or Winchester 1300 with an extra slug barrel is a pretty inexpensive way to go - if the slugs will fit your deer hunting situation (they do drop the deer!)

Like it's been said - these types of discussions are like the Ford v. Chevy, do you drive them until they drop or trade every three years, etc etc. Take care.

[whitetips]

25 06 is the best for deer. Good ballistics for long range.

auto or bolt. Ruger, Remington, on the bolt side and Browning on an Auto.

[DrKen]

Lots of good advice here, Can speak from experience that the savages are a lot of gun for the money. One of the most accurate rifles in production. Better than a lot of more expensive ones. As far a caliber, most any will do. It is far more important to put the bullet where you want it than the size for whitetails. That said, if you are only going to get one rifle, the 06 is a very good bet. Good for most anything on the continent and ammo is relativly inexpensive and in a wide variety of bullet types and weights. Whatever you get, shoot it a lot before the season. Get used to it and then put the bullet where it counts. Another option, is to also get a similar setup on a .22 and practice with that.