Contact the DNR

[Guest]

I should have never even gotten invloved with this conversation becasue some of you people will always take something someone said and blow it out of proportion.

Ok, so maybe stocking baitfish isn't the answer. Taking a few of the larger fish certainly isn't going to hurt the lake. We're talking just for this year now if you were paying attention. And they most certainly aren't ALL going to be trophy. If you consider a 26" walleye a trophy you are a spank. OPINION! Now......

To you that insist the fish aren't starving. Did I say they were dying because of starvation? I simply stated that 90% of the fish I've brought up were looking rather thin and drawn. Lots of fish have been gutting live bait too. Some of my cranks have even been down so far, I had to perform minor surgury.

Pardon me for getting a little defensive, but for all of you that have your opinions, lets try to observe other people's opinions in full instead of taking little bits and peices and scrambling the #^$% out of what they had really said.

Points were taken about some of my ideas being futile; however, if someone that fishes this lake often is going to tell me the fish don't look thin and will strike at just about anything( I could probably stick a frigg'n peice of gum on the end of my hook and catch walleye right now) (exaggeration for all of you literalists), then I will no longer bother to post here due to display of ignorance.

I'm not trying to start a fight here either, but let's have our differences and let's read things thouroughly before we get our underwear in a bunch...

Thanx...

------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~
/
<The Sucka{
\

[Beckman]

Rusty:

I do agree that it is a fact that forage fish numbers are way down, that might have been unclear in my post. All the samplings and the bite have been a testament to that fact.

That being said it is my opinion that the baitfish can and will recover with one good hatch... who knows it might be fact(I don't want to pass off these things as fact because I'm not a biologist) From what I've seen this year it looks like a good year class, so next year will probably be more normal. I hope when the bite slows down everyone will not be crying crash just because the fishing is not as good as it was this year.

Sucka:

Some on this board have suggested that fish are dying of starvation, that comment from me wasn't directed at you. I respect your opinions too, even though I think some of them suck

It's sometimes hard to interpret some people's idea's and it's easy to rip them apart in this sort of forum, so I try not to get too defensive or get too upset from what is written back at me...

[This message has been edited by Beckman (edited 07-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Beckman (edited 07-17-2002).]

[Rick]

You are all free to voice your personal opinions with respect to the Mille lacs fishery.

You can certainly post your viewpoint while avoiding the following:

Please, NO personal attacks are allowed. That includes name calling or demeaning someone elses opinion just because you disagree with it. There are a few posts on this topic that cross(ed) the line.

Please, do not cross the line again.

I'm not pointing fingers, but if the shoe fits wear it.

We are all anglers and working together to improve our overall fishing experience is what I believe we're all really after.

Please keep it civil, we're here to have fun.

[Guest]

I apologize for the one for one, my point being that I do not agree with the suggestion that Mille lacs be considered for any type of C&R regulations. The best of the DNR's population estimates are severely flawed as pointed out by the Sternberg report and anyone with considerable experience with the off-shore areas of Mille lacs. The population situation and bite conditions we have experienced this season are highly unusual, in my opinion. This is definately not a stable situation. Time will tell what will happen now that this seasons YOY are large enough to be seen on camera, recorded on sonar, and consumed by predators. The simple fact remains; If all anglers in search of a few filets were to ignore mille lacs and pressure other area lakes, they would all have population problems of their own in no time.

[This message has been edited by coldone (edited 07-17-2002).]

[Guest]

Is this board mainly consistent of Adults?

Sometimes a few of us here wonder, because it seems we need constant reminding that we should conduct ourselves with respect both to ourselves and others. Sounds like Junior High to me.

Editing has to be done in the good taste and judgement for the sake of all general parties of interest. Some of the folks here have different guidlines and find some things less offensive then others.

The disadvantage to a typed artical or response is that we cannot here the "tone" of the voice on the other end. Perhaps at times things are taken wrong when intended in a mild manner. However, that is hard to detirmine, and each persons discretion is different.

Everyone here puts in their "2 cents". Not everyone will agree, and sometimes anothers opinion wavers from our own so far that it upsets us. That's a fact of life. Please don't let things like that get in the way of the purpose of these forums.

The message has been and remains the same; We are here to share ideas and have fun.

PCG

[Guest]

And one another thing:

Good Fishing!

PCG

[Guest]

Guys, we've got to direct our energy in the proper place. We are a large and powerfull political force. It can, and has been argued that we, (I didn't vote for him), put Jessie into office. We need to get politicly wise. This Mille Lacs thing isn't a hunting and fishing issue, it is a people who want to be an independant nation. It needs to be delt with in that light. We are inocent bystanders caught in the crossfire. We need to stick together and listen to what guys like Howard Hanson, Joe Fellagy, and Eddy Lybeck have to say. Lets keep it together and acomplish something! Jim

[Guest]

PGC/ was that your sister on the launch sunday nite? She was far too good looking to be your gal?

------------------
MILLE LACS AREA GUIDE SERVICE
651-271-5459 http://fishingminnesota.com/millelacsguide/
click here

[This message has been edited by D-man (edited 07-17-2002).]

[Tonka Boy]

Rattlinrouge,
I take offense to that "meathead" comment! Sure I mentioned C&R. Personally, I could care less if a guy keeps fish or not. What I truely care about is the future of our lakes...ALL OF THEM!!! I enjoy nothing more than being out on the water, no matter if I am fishing, skiing, swimming, boating, etc. Yes, I fish nearly everyday for recreation. Yes, I practice CPR. Yes, I go to Mille Lacs once in a while to catch more than the 1 or 2 walleyes I would catch around the metro. Does that mean I am out there ruining lakes? NO!!! I treat every fish I catch with a gental hand. I make every effort not to disturb habitat. I do everything in my power (including contacting the DNR and gov't.), to assure the future of fishing. Sometimes things don't work the way intended, but that is the nature of the game.

My point is that we are only giving opions/ideas here for the common goal. If we all truely care about the lake (which is obvious), we would band together. Take the time and educate your elected officials. You certainly won't make much of a difference calling some guy a "meathead" on fishing forum!

Just my opinion!

------------------
Tonka Boy

[Guest]

Indeed this is a touchy issue and we are fairly insignificant as to the outcome. I apologize if I have offended anyone. It is just a little frustrating to see things transpire the way they have. I know the lake is far stronger than we truley know, and is one of the most magnificent walleye habitats we have. I think a crash would be stretching it, but the more time goes by, the better the DNR will learn to manage lakes of this magnitude.

------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~
/
<The Sucka{
\

[Guest]

Yes, that was my WOMAN.

Quite the fisher-person also.

thanks

PCG

[TUMBLEWEED]

Ahhhh........ finally a topic that we can agree on,(pretty women)!!!!

I used to practice catch and release ,but I finally found a "trophy" and brought her
home.

[vikes40for60]

Is there a special trick or "secret potion" that you give the gals to get them interested in fishing. My wife has zero interest. She calls it just another dumb hobby that I spend too much time and money. Like my golf and fantasy football additction. Hmmmm.

Maybe if I said Marshall Fields was having a sale or if her friends could come and gossip about the latest fashion trends it would work?

[Grabs]

Vikes, it helps if you can get them on some close to non-stop action and let them fish where they don't have to try too hard for the fish. I took my woman on a launch trip about a month ago, she caught 8 walleyes, and had probably twice as many bites! It was the greatest fishing she has had in a long time, now when I ask here if she wants to go out and troll or drift for a few hours she is has a bit of excitment about doing it. Take here out to Minnewaska and put her on some bull bluegills! She and you will have a blast with those fish! Good luck, make it fun and painless and they will enjoy it!

------------------

[This message has been edited by Grabs (edited 07-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Grabs (edited 07-18-2002).]

[huskminn]

Vikes,

Man......I don't know how to do a conversion. My wife had some interest prior to us meeting. We camp and backpack, too. She even has her own flyrod and waders.

I'm so freaking lucky because my wife likes to fish on occasion and she understands that I need it to feed my soul. I have been completely blessed, and I know it.

I had my boat before I got married and I had most of my gear, so that may have helped me.

Maybe if D-man organizes another launch, he'll make if for a Saturday and we can get all of our women to go.....perhaps your wife will ask mine about her shoes and mine will explain that she got them at Gander Mountain while I was there buying fishing tackle.

See the tie-in? Okay....this isn't really going to work, is it?

[Grabs]

How much interest is there in a coed gathering this Sat. If there is interest, I will be willing to organize a launch trip for this Sat. I know it is short notice but we should still be able to line something up for us.

D-man, can you send me the info for Pike Point, I have never gone out of them, but I think its Mike who used to work at Twin Pines that started it right?

Let me know boys,..I will start a new Mille Lacs lake thread now.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Grabs (edited 07-18-2002).]

[huskminn]

Grabs......I know I'm the one who brought it up, but, man, my wife and I don't have a free Saturday until August 17th.

Talk about being over scheduled! And none of it's fishing time, either.

I'd love to participate (can't speak for my wife right now), but...how about September?

[Guest]

Why wasn't this ever a problem when the Native Americans owned the land around Mille Lacs? My great grandfather fished that lake ocasionally for years, long before the big resorts or mansions were built, they never experianced what is going on now. As far as the Indians owning businesses around the lake, the village of Chief Wadena was burned by a sheriff's posse in 1911 and its residents were forcibly removed with nowhere to go so that the land they lived on could be claimed by a developer. Just be thankful that the Indians doen't treat us as we treated them.

[Rick]

I'm well aware of what the trappers, traders, and military did, as I'm well aware of what the Sioux & Chippewa did. I'm not sticking up for either viewpoint, just balancing your post with additional facts.

I'm not suggesting we turn a blind eye to what was done. I'm just saying...WE DIDN'T DO IT.

My point is, it was part of the whole equation back then, regardless of which race you belonged to. Even Indians oppressing Indians and Whites oppressing Whites. Let's just keep working at doing away with oppression wherever we find it, regardless of race.

Race needs to become a non-issue. I hope we've made some progress in that direction since 1837.

[Rick]

Screwedgoose,
I doubt any of us treated them that way. We need to start moving towards being Human Beings rather than Indians, Whites, etc.

We're all part of the same family. We may have differant cultures, beliefs, and traditions, but acceptance and welcoming those differences along with the realization that we are all Human Beings, brothers and sisters is the direction to go.

As long as we're being historians, the Chippewa forcibly killed and moved the Sioux so they could use the Sioux's land. The Chippewa are originally from Canada until the 1700's. They made no Treaties with the Sioux, they just annihilated them or forced them to move and stole the land out from under them.

Does that mean the Chippewa should be forced to give it all back to the Sioux because of what they're ancestors did?

We're all the same with respect to the fact that we're all human beings and spiritual beings. I'll leave it at that.

[Guest]

Rick : I don't think turning a blind eye to what was done is the answer especially when the Indians keep taking it on the chin over fishing. The forgive and forget sounds great on paper but if you listen to what is being said, some would still like to keep them oppressed. As for the Sioux getting run out, if you are interested, check out "Over the Earth I Come": The Great Sioux Uprising of 1862 by Duane P. Schultz You might get an insight and it really is excellent reading, it's one of those you can't put it down types. You'll come away with an entirely different opinion of the great Henry Sibley and his friends. But if you are not into MN history doen't waste your money.

[Guest]

Rick, AMEN!!!! Jim

[Terry Hagstrom]

Looking at the lake it is pretty simple to understand. The lake has put out a million lbs. in years past. Now since the treaty, the overall take is slightly more than a third of that, fish are returned and those bigger fish spawn, those fry and fingerling when young will eat like teenagers. Now the population has doubled or tripled.
The result is the rapid degration and possibly non existant bait fish population. This of course has created a very lean and stead fast diet for the fish and an unbalanced system.

Part of the political problem is not all with the DNR but with another group. It is a known fact that some of our very own non indian law makers recieve money for their campaign to get or keep them in office.
This might be the reason that every time a state run casino is brought up, it's killed very quickly.
We (the non indian) need to get around this road block and head straight towards the White House. To bad it's not an election year. It is written in the treaty that this can go on according to the president's pleasure.
Tryng to get our own state to help change this will be next to impossible.
We do have some good people on our side such as Sandra Erickson and Bill Haas and a few others.
After elections though I hope that if we get a good Gov. that is in the know and that person will get rid of a number of DNR people and clean house.
As was said in an earlier post, Let's not make this a race issue. It's a political and common sense issue. Unfortunately they don't always go together.

I wish the news people would have the nerve to say way the bite IS really good.

Terry
Terry's Guide Service
www.fishingmn.com/terry

[mistermom]

Hi Terry!

I couldn't agree more. Look at the political contributions by the casinos and you will see that they (the casinos) are looking after their interests in a most generous fashion. This is not and indictment. That is how the system works at this time.

In my opinion the dnr management plan is based soley on keeping under the quota for non-band harvest; which they have not been able to do in past years. If the harvest levels continue to exceed the quota the band could go back to court and get management control of the lake away from the dnr and into the hands of the fish and wildlife service (feds). I don't know if that would be good or bad. It could could go from a total closure to non-band members, all the way to getting the President's attention and result in the President rescinding treaty rights. I just think very little of this is based on biology.
Just my oppinion. Thanks.

[harvy56364]

Terry, I appreciate commen sense. I havn't posted here in at least a month because of the so called C&R that preach it to all that don't have 4 day weeks & 20,000 boats! All take note, Paul Wellstone has allways been the LEGISLATOR, that has taken ,(and try to dispute this), PAC money & soft money from the natives. Only 4 years ago he was seen proudly giving 4 million to the natives. I LIVE HERE & most people on this post wouldn't believe how the natives want it both ways! MONEY- OUR'S WAKE UP, NOW

[huskminn]

This is a little off-topic, but, if you think Wellstone is a sponge for Native money, take a look at his boss, Tom Daschle.

Daschle's supporters (most from out of state) even provide free meals on the reservation if someone has an "I Voted" sticker to display.

Daschle has so much campaign money that he funds many other's campaigns.....including Wellstone. Not that this doesn't take place on the other side of the aisle, but, it's nice to have ALL the information so one can make a decision the somewhat reflects reality.

I don't want you all to take me wrong.....there are huge social and economic problems on many reservations.....it's just that I don't think most white's have any idea what kind of political shenanigans take place on them. Someone actually needs to do something to help these folks, not just perpetuate their dependent situations while maintaining political power.

[SpikeRoberts]

Me thinks there is some hyperbole about campaign contributions from the natives. Neither Wellstone nor Coleman have received funds from Native Gambling PACs for the 2002 election cycle; Jim Oberstar, however, is a regular recipient. The numbers for previous election cycles don't support the contention that they are major players either. Keep in mind these are the numbers for federal office, the contributions for state office campaigns may be more significant.

The latest figures from the Federal Election Commission:

Indian Gaming
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates 2001-2002*
Total Amount: $45,350
Total to Democrats: $29,750 (66%)
Total to Republicans: $15,600 (34%)
Number of PACs Making Contributions: 5

Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe
PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates
2002 Cycle

Total to Democratic House Candidates:$12,500
Total to Republican House Candidates:$3,000
Total to Democratic Senate Candidates:$2,000
Total to Republican Senate Candidates: $500

Based on data released by the FEC on Monday, June 03, 2002.

Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe PAC Contributions to Federal Candidates 2000 Cycle

Total to Democratic House Candidates:$1,500
Total to Republican House Candidates: $0

[huskminn]

Spike, you rock!

[mistermom]

Go to opensecrets.org, click on 'get local', then click on MN, then click on top contributors. You will see that the casinos/gambling contributed $222,905.00 to both parties in the 1999-2000 election cycle. They gave $195,000.00 to the dems and $27,805.00 to the republicans. These are for in state races which are considerably cheaper than national races. There is a ton more info on this site and I plan to dig some more.

State officials are the ones who decide who can and can't have gambling. Its a waste of money for the casinos to spend federally other than to generate goodwill. Thanks.

mistermom

[mistermom]

I'm sorry! I should amend that last statement:
The State can't stop the Indians from having casinos because they are sovereign nations; but the state legislature can stop anyone else from having legalized gambling. And for the most part they have done just that. And that is why the casinos have given hundreds of thousands of dollars to the state parties.

mistermom