dog question

[Guest]

Is it to young to bread my lab when she is only 11 months old?

[duckbuster]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? YES, way to young!!!!!!!!! You should not breed your dog until a minimum of age 2. Have the hips & eyes check before you do anything. I'm not sure you would have to many people interested in your puppies knowing that she was that young. She is still a puppy, still developing. Let her grow and mature. BE PATIENT.

[Mark Christianson]

I agree with Duckbuster 100%.
That pup needs to mature a bit more.

In people years your dog isn't even 7 years old yet.

[Mayfly]

Why do you want to breed the pup? I wonder what the rest of the story is.

[setterguy]

Now this is not directed at fruitloop but his question does bring up a good topic for discussion. What qualities do you look for in a dog before you will decide to breed it? I think there are a lot of people out there breeding dogs for all the wrong reasons..money, so they can have a puppy, so the kids can see it, and so on. There are certian qualities that I think are mandatory before you should even consider to breed. 1. health, dog should be free of any allergies, hip or eye problems, and be in overall good health. 2. Temperment, dog should show no signs of aggresive behavior towards people or other animals (except cats ). 3. Hunting ability, the dog should be at the top of its class when it comes to hunting and be proven in some type of trial or hunt test. You can be for or against trials and hunt tets but truth be told they are the only way for you to prove your dog against other dogs of the same age. 4. Attitude, who wants a good hunting dog with a bunch of attitude, just ask the Vikings about Randy Moss, same idea I think. 5. Style I think a dog should hunt with drive and look effortless while it runs. This isn't a deal breaker but should be taken in to consideration. I truley think there are way too many dogs being bred, this is why we end up with so many health and temperment problems.

Your dog may be a fine dog, it may find birds better than any dog you've ever had, until you can run down this list and honestly answer yes to these quesitons, you should reconsider your idea to breed a dog. Breeding sub-par dogs only weakens the gene-pool, and with every nonproductive litter there are that many more chances for those puppies to breed again, and so on. If you truley have an exceptional dog then more power to you, you should breed it. But it is a bigger decision than most people realize.

Case in point, I have a dog that comes from pretty impecable blood lines, her grandfather is the winningest setter in history, her father was Maryland shooting dog of the year 3 years in a row. She has many placements in various trials, She points grouse, retrieves, has never run away, and is a wonderful pet inside the house. But I just decided to breed her about 3 months ago. There were times that she would make a mistake when I thought that I shouldn't. But after watching her in the field and in the house for 3 1/2 years I finally decided that she has the qualities that I am looking for in a puppy.

In closing, this is not a decision that should be rushed into. I know I rambled a bit here but it is a topinc that I feel very strongly about and have for some time. Agian Fruitloop this was not aimed at you or your dog because I have never met either of you, just a topic of discussion...Good luck with the pooch.

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Keep the tip up, ask permission and shoot straight. Setterguy

[setterguy]

Now mpete54, I willing to guess that Mayfly has had some experiences simuliar to mine in regards to breeding of dogs. I think that the bad experiences that some have had with over-zealous breeders have forced us to ask questions as to why some one wants to breed a dog. By looking at Fruitloops bio I saw that he was a student and am guessing a fairly young person that may not have the experience with dogs that some of us may have. That is why I gave such a detailed explanation. I don't think that Mayfly meant anything by his statement although I can see how it could come across. Lets try and keep this forum as a standard for the site, if you have useful info please feel free to give it. And conversley please feel free to inquire about subjects that you wonder about. There are no dumb questions here, we all had to learn at some point and time!

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Keep the tip up, ask permission and shoot straight. Setterguy

[mpete54]

Setterguy, I completely agree with what you are saying. I was just saying that whenever someone asks a question it seems like there is someone who is wondering about alterior motives. It just seemed to me that it was a simple question and I don't think that people should be afraid to ask a question because someone else is going to wonder about alterior motives. This is a great site to find out information and there are lots of helpful people on this site like you and Mayfly. People can't learn without asking questions and I guess that I feel that you shouldn't be "questioned" for asking a question.

[Redlantern]

Setterguy, you hit the nail on the head with your comments about bettering the breed. Too many people breed subpar dogs, at least working line dogs. Nothing wrong with having a dog just for the sake of having one, but if your breeding a working animal, why create mediocre offspring? As I learn more about dogs, I've found that I have a lot more learning to do about line breeding, outcrossing, genetics, hybrid vigor, etc.

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Erik

[Mayfly]

Mpete54: "the rest of the story" I was just curious what he was up too. I don't care what the guy does, I was just curious. So relax, I like to hear the whole story.

[mpete54]

Why does there always have to be a "rest of the story"? Can't the guy ask a question? Not all of us are dog experts and that's why the questions are asked. I have a 9 month old yellow lab that is already spayed, but just as a general knowledge thing I would have no idea of when to breed a female dog.

[BLACKJACK]

In theory this 'bettering the breed' is great but it gets expensive for the average guy that just wants a good hunting dog and family pet. So you pop $500 for a pup (which I recently did, its got all the good bloodlines, health guarantees, etc), if you hunt a lot and it lasts 10 years, the $50 a year is well worth it. But what if something happens to the pup, it gets run over, dies of disease, etc. Then you're out your $$ and you have to spend more money. It gets spendy for the average Joe Hunter. At this point in my life, I can pop the $500, but when I was 24, no way!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it sounds great and wonderful to 'enhance the breed' but the costs have to be kept down or the average hunter is going to look for something cheaper. And these backyard breedings do produce good hunting dogs. My current 7 year old female lab was a product of my previous female - good bloodlines and a good hunter - and my brothers lab, a good hunter with very average bloodlines. I've shot over 100 pheasants over this female in the last two years.

[superfish2]

Blackjack,

did you ever get my email about the pup?

[setterguy]

Blackjack- I understand your point of some people not being able to afford a dog from a world class bloodline. I would tend to say that you can't afford not to have one of these dogs, here's why. When I breed my female a good stud is going to cost anywhere from 300-600 dollars. Then there are the Vet appointments to follow the pregnancy, the pre-natal vitamins, the money for the whelping box, heating pad, day off work to deliver puppies, shots, dew claws, registration, ad in the paper, and countless time with the puppies. Now if I heard of someone selling pups for 200 bucks I would know right away that something wasn't done correctly during the pregnancy. Then with the "bargain puppy" you are going to have a higher risk of birth defects, epilepsy, hip dysplasia, ear problems, eye problems, soft feet, bad gait, let alone the ability of the animal to hunt and be a good pet. How much does one Vet visit cost to have your dogs hips or shoulders checked? How much does medicine for an over active thyroid cost per month? The bottom line is this, the purchase price of a puppy is the least amount you will ever spend on a dog, ecspecially if you get an unhealthy one. Think about the 200-300 dollars that you may save on a pup, don't ask why one is so much more expensive, ask why one is so much cheaper. It has been my experience that the 200 dollars will be made up the first time out in the field.

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Keep the tip up, ask permission and shoot straight. Setterguy

[BLACKJACK]

superfish, not that I know of, but refresh my memeory, I received lots of emails and pedigrees when I was inquiring on pups, asking questions.

[Guest]

Sorry for asking..my brothers saw how good my lab worked this year and they wanted one like it so i was going to breed my dog so they could have one and i am not in it for the money!! The reason i asked was that a buddy of mine is dog got breed for a stray when it was 8 months old and that dog is a good as ever. And yes a am a student but i have been around good all my life.

[can it be luck?]

setterguy.....Good post!...Fruitloop, You shouldn't feel as though anything "negative" was implyed by anyone, just a bunch of guys throwing in thier 2 cents.

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http://groups.msn.com/canitbeluck

[duckbuster]

setterguy, I'm curious to know what price you would sell your puppies for? Also,how do you come to the amount or price? Do you add up your expenses then mark them up 25% or do you take a look at what the market bears on a breeding comparable to yours?
Thanks!!

[duckbuster]

Setterguy, I'm curious to know how you come up with a price on what to sell your pups for? Do you take the stud fee and all other expenses then maybe mark it up 25%. Do you look at what other puppies sell for comparable to your litter and use that as a measuring stick?
Thanks.

[Redlantern]

I'm sorry if I came off as an elitist or snobby about my views on dogs, Fruitloop. I don't have any hunting dogs, just sled dogs. I understand that not everyone can or will spend the money on expensive breedings and I have seen some sled dogs that didn't have much of a pedigree that were awesome. It's just that you increase your chances of having an excellent dog if you try to breed the best to the best. Eleven months is a bit too young to know if the dog is really great.A lot of people don't know much about breeding and think they are going to get superdogs just by breeding average dogs. I don't do any of my own breedings because I realize I don't have dogs that are going to improve the breed. Sorry if I offended you.

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Erik

[setterguy]

Duckbuster- The equation that most guys that I run with use is 20-25% of your dogs worth. A fully trained dog with great bloodlines that points grouse is going to run you somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3k. Take 25% of two thousand and you come up with 500 bucks. If your dog isn't quite as good you might be looking at somewhere around three to four hundred. There is no magic formula, market price, demand, and your costs are definetly factors. When looking at a dog with a great lineage you have to factor the possibility to make money off the dog as well. Also factored in here are risks that are taken with breeding a dog. There have been more than a few females that have died during labor or conversley had all the puppies die. If you look at most guys that are breeding dogs, I don't see too many driving BMWs or Range Rovers. Most guys aren't in it to get rich, they just enjoy the whole experience.

[Swamp Scooter]

Fruitloop... Good question and I see you got a bunch of good replies. I agree with them too. Waiting until they are mature is the way to go. There are a lot of dogs out there of all the different breeds and if you see a great prospect develop it first.

Thinking/dreaming about a litter of your own is a great motivator. At 8 months you have a lot of fun time training and learning about this dog to do. Enjoy the off season and look forward to the next. It is not a bad thing to spay/neuter any dog. There are always more and if this one is not from the top performing lines that is OK. It does not mean it cannot turn out to be a competitor and a winner. Puppies are a lot of work and can be costly to do right. Enjoy the puppy you still have.