Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Hunting ethics


Coldfeet

Recommended Posts

While reading the posts about ATV's and grouse hunting, I noticed the words "ethical" and "unethical" used quite a bit, and this brings to mind a debate I've been having with my brother regarding the "ethics" of grouse hunting.

My brother has three dogs, two of which are excellent bird dogs and the third is still in training but is showing promise. I do have a dog, but the only thing it's good for is digging holes in my yard and chewing stuff. (I put him in the garage for one night last winter due to the extreme cold outside and I came out in the morning and had no power in my garage. I later discovered that he actually chewed through the conduit and ripped the power line in half that led up to the circuit breaker. I think this might have something to do with why he's so dumb. You'd think that 220 volts would have killed him.) I've tried to take him hunting, but he just does not seem to be the hunting type. I walk when I go grouse hunting, no dog, no atv, no truck, and I hunt on my own land.

My brother thinks that I am unethical for "groundswatting" grouse and not waiting for them to flush, but my side of the arguement is that I like to eat grouse and I am not necessarily in it for the sport. I like to be out in the woods and I enjoy the walk. I am also what you call a "meat hunter", and if I don't like to eat it, I won't hunt it. For this reason I do not hunt ducks or geese or pheasant. I've hunted all three in the past and, yes, it is fun, but they taste like crap. I haven't hunted pheasant in the past 5 years and I haven't hunted geese or ducks in at least 10 despite many invitations and opportunities to do so. I'm kind of getting off track here so I'll try to stay on the subject. Because I walk without the aid of a good hunting dog, I feel that it is perfectly ethical for me to shoot grouse while they are on the ground or in a tree. It also has the added benefit of a good clean shot and I usually end up with no pellets in the meat. My brother gets furious when he sees me do this. To him it is just as unethical to shoot a bird on the ground while walking as it is to shoot one from your vehicle. I, of course, disagree.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are as ethical as the same guy who shoots them on the fly in my opinion. I shoot some on the ground and some in the air, depending what opportunities there are. Ask your brother if he spooks his deer first so that they run so it is more of a challenge. Why does his argument not hold true here? To each his own, carry on with you think is the right thing to do. As long as it can be done by law, go for it! Good luck. Oh, you think ducks, geese, and pheasants taste bad? I would have to argue that point but I guess that is another topic!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I know that there are many, many people that shoot birds on the ground, and I have no problem with that. I however only shoot flushed birds. I was always taught to never shoot at a bird unless your gun is above shoulder height. This is for the saftey of other hunters but mostly becuase of my dogs. If you can see a bird on the ground chances are the dog you're with can either see it or smell it, and even the best bird dogs have been known to chase a bird that they can see. A guy I know lost a dog in South Dakota due to someone "ground swatting" a pheasant. He thought that the shot was safe and pulled the trigger only to hear a cry from his buddies lab. So even though I follow the same "rules" as your brother, I do it for totally different reasons, saftey, not ethics. I say if you like to eat grouse and you are hunting in a safe and legal way, swat away.

[This message has been edited by setterguy (edited 09-25-2003).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my humble opinion, I think that groundswatting grouse is more ethical than shooting them in the air. Much higher chance of a clean kill and much lower chance of cripples. Now are we talking about "ethics" or about "sportsmanship"? I would say it is not as "sportsmanlike" to groundswatt a grouse as it is to shoot one in the air, but I have definitely done it myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, too, only grouse hunt on foot with no dogs. (Although last time I was out, I thought it might be nice to have a dog's companionship while I am hunting.)I prefer to shoot at birds in flight, as it is more exciting, and more challenging. But, I have probably shot 50% on the ground. Since I don't have a dog to scent them, I have to rely on my own sight and hearing to see the birds first. I don't ground shoot pheasants (or rabbits while out pheasant hunting)while hunting with dogs for the reason mentioned above.

I will also shoot rabbits that are either moving or sitting still. Again, the moving shot is more difficult, and a greater test of skill, but I won't pass up an open still shot.

Perhaps I need to construct a diagram that shows the relative ethics and sportiness of the various elements in grouse hunting (ie gauge,# of shells, single flush/re-flush, wing shooting/ground shooting, on foot/with dog/on horse/on atv/on atv with dog.)

Probably the most ethical would be to euthanize the grouse while it is sleeping. The least ethical would be to napalm a large area of the forest and see if there are any fried grouse when it is done. (That would also be the least sporting.) The most sporting would be to use a blow dart while standing on your head.

Nels

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont have a problem with anyone taking birds on the ground. Setterguy has a very good point with hunting with dogs and the direct danger to the dogs.. it should be common sense and practice not to take birds on the ground when hunting with dogs.

Myself .. when I'm grouse hunting and the dog is not along... I'll swat the bird on the ground and continue to shoot at birds that flush... providing its in a safe direction. I usually hunt by myself.

The fact is I also hunt for groceries, and will take what presents safe, and legal opportunity.

Call me unethical, they still taste the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hunt Pheasants and Grouse with my four English setters, I never shoot pheasants on the ground because of the dogs and other hunters safety, but if your alone on the ground or in the air and you enjoy the game you harvested and the outdoors go for it. Good hunting. Grouse in the crock pot with cream of mushroom soup, slow cooked, good eating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Side of the road or air, I'm there to have fun and get birds. 4-wheelers, trucks and a run with a good dog- either way it's fun for me. Seems that that the one's that don't get many birds are the ones that are pissed off. I do it all and get many birds each way. There's just something special about tagging one with your favorite dog! It's gun time and ya gotta love it- Any Way! -NS-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't condemn anyone for shooting a bird off the ground.

Setterguy, it's nice to hear these words from you "I say if you like to eat grouse and you are hunting in a safe and legal way, swat away."

[This message has been edited by Dave (edited 09-25-2003).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I tell people all the time. I'm grouse hunting, not flying grouse hunting. In my opionion a bird shot sitting almost always results in head/neck shot and equates to better use of the meat. I take them any way I can get them. As long as it's safe and legal it's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm not that hungry for wild game - I get plenty thru the year - that I need to ground swat a grouse. I won't shoot a pheasant on the ground or a duck on the water either. It may be legal but its definately unsporting. Yet we're always dreaming about that 'one shot and out standing shot on deer' in order to finish them off cleanly. I guess my distinction is that you use birdshot on birds, so lets make it sporting. I don't feel good about my shot when I shoot a grouse on the ground or a duck on the water. Plus as I stated earlier, I don't need the meat that bad.

To each his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

A dog can never be smarter than his owner. Just a humorous note I heard a trainer once say. Ha ha. Anyways, when I hunted without a dog I thought I rarely hit the grouse I shot at on the fly. Now, with the second best dog I have ever had, she finds about 9 out of 10 that I shoot at (my best dog used to get so fed up in the off seasons she would stop hunting. One time she sat at the bottom of a tree and barked and barked until I broke the brush and shot the darn bird out of the tree. Oh well, she was another story...). Makes me think I wasn't very ethical in the past by either not using a dog or only shooting on the fly. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Groundpound away my man. Do it safely, of course. But we each hunt our own hunt, if someone doesn't like the (legal) way I do it, that will be the last time I hunt with em'. A holier than-thou-attitude has no place in the woods.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The questions I consider in the field are -
Is it legal?
Is it safe?
Is it effective (ie: clean kill)?
Does the game have a sporting chance?

If I can answer yes to the first 3 and would like to have something for the table, I'll take the shot. If table fare isn't a factor, then the last question determines the choice.

I haven't hunted waterfowl much lately, but hunted daily back in high school. I remember wounding (and not retrieving) more ducks that I shot on the water than wing shots. So I curtailed those shots considerably.

The point is if your best shot at a clean kill is while the grouse is on the ground then take it. My best shot at a duck was on the wing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we're talking grouse here! pound em' on the ground if they give you the chance! If you wait ,you go hungry. It's alwats fun shootin em in the air but heh a mans gotta eat!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
    • leech~~
      As I get older it's really not just about sending bullets down range.  Some of it's just the workmanship of the gun and the wow factor. The other two guns I have really wanted which I'll never have now because of their price, is a 8mm Jap Nambu and 9mm German Luger.   Just thought they always looked cool!  
    • jim curlee
      I had a guy hit me with a lightly used 1969 BAR, he wanted $1650 with an older Leupold scope. More than I think they are worth, I made an offer, he declined end of story.   You know if you look at the old brochures, a grade II BAR sold for $250 in the late 60s, $1650 would be a good return on your investment.    Why would anybody want a 50 year old gun, they are heavy, have wood stocks, and blued metal.  I guess mainly to keep their gun safes glued to the floor. lol   You can probably buy a stainless rifle that you never have to clean, with a synthetic stock you never have to refinish, is as light as a feather, and for half as much money, perfect.   I'm too old for a youth gun, although I've shrunk enough that it would probably fit. lol   No Ruger 10/44s.   Jim      
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.