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Is Mille Lacs in trouble?


vikes40for60

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That is the question of the day.

I am certainly no lake expert but I have to express some concern over the Mille Lacs fishery. Never have I seen the fishing this good at Mille Lacs. I cant remember days where 20+ fish are put in LOTS of boats. it has truly fun, but is it at a price.

This Saturday my Dad and I caught 4 walleyes that had hooks still in their mouths and we never caught a perch. Is it possible that there is some food shortage in the lake causing the fishing to be exceptional? If so this will also have a signifignat impact on the walleye class this year. If the perch population is down as well as forage wont the bigger fish search for the new walleye fry for eating?

I read the article in the Star Tribune on Sunday April 28, 2002 which compared the viewpoints of two experts about Mille Lacs. Both had differing opinons on the lake but neither commented on the food issue.

I am just a big Mille LAcs fan and I am concerned about the fishing today (whic i cant complain about) but I want to my son to enjoy the lake as I did growing up. Comments are welcome.

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This issue has been thoroughly debated in this forum in the past.

I think your observations are accurate and your conclusions correct.

There are few perch left in Mille Lacs. How many perch did anyone catch this weekend while fishing for walleyes? Why do you think the fishing has been so good for the last three years? The walleyes are hungry!

There is a serious predator/prey imbalance in the lake right now because there are too many big walleyes. The DNR is managing the lake based not on biology, but on adhering to court mandated and negotiated total pounds of harvest.

Those big fish need to be taken out of that system to allow the perch populations to recover. However, if people were allowed to keep the 20"-25" fish, we'd hit our total pounds of take by mid-June and the walleye season would effectively end for the year. And so would the the resorts' season.

So, the DNR looks at the situation, determines a slot that will allow for the lowest harvest of fish and sets the regs. There is no way the sport anglers can exceed the total allowable harvest with a 14"-16" slot because there aren't enough of those fish in the system to do that.

So, as I have said before in this forum, enjoy the fishing on Mille Lacs while you can. Whether or not the DNR has anything to do with it, the lake will restore its balance. It will be a painful process and the resorts and anglers will suffer, but eventually things will even out.

The crash in the perch population could have been caused by biology (weather, etc.), but the upcoming crash in the walleye population could be mostly avoided with proper lake management. But, that's not the DNR's main concern for Mille Lacs.....

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In your opinion "how long" will we have before the lake does restore itslef. I can remember some lean years in the late 80's. Are we destined to those days again? Is there any public information on the DNR website to voice concerns about these things?

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Man, I hope you're not asking me. I don't have any real facts to back my theories....just a little personal experience on the lake and some extrapolations from there.

Right now, Lake Oahe in South Dakota is trying to recover from a severe bait-fish shortage. There basically are no big walleyes left in the system and there are a large number of small walleyes that are gobbling up the bait fish as fast as they can reproduce. The SDGF&P is encouraging a liberal harvest of smaller walleyes to help the bait-fish recover and eventually some balance will be restored. This will take years and a lot of luck.

There are a lot of variables, but I think the larger fish will starve first in Mille Lacs. Smaller fish can survive on a wider variety of things. So, the spawners die first, leaving a population imbalance towards smaller walleyes. Will there have to be liberal harvest on those to allow the perch to come back?

This is all speculation.......but if what I SAY is happening REALLY IS happening, I can't imaging another couple of years going by without something pretty serious happening to the walleyes in Mille Lacs. Anyone else agree? Disagree?

My argument is pretty easily shot down because so much empirical "data" exists that says I'm wrong. Mind you, it's all the DNR's data, but it is data none-the-less. My theories are nothing but speculation.

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Heres one to think about. We snagged a berkely ice fishing combo on the gravel this past weekend. It was all intact, line,bobber and hook. What got me thinking was the hook. It was perfectly fine. Unless someone was using it recently over the side of the boat which i have to doubt, the hook had to be in the lake for aprox 2 months. Is there any data that supports the hooks will rust out of a fishes throat? I caught a 26 incher on a spinner and she wasnt about to lose it. She had it buried in her throat. I hope those hooks do disolve. Thinking about going to circle hooks...

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MILLE LACS AREA GUIDE SERVICE
651-271-5459 http://fishingminnesota.com/millelacsguide/
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I believe the fish create their own acids that disolve the hooks. This is the only explanation I have heard as to the hooks disolving quickly.

However, for steel to rust on its own, it also needs some air to oxidize quicker.

PCG

[This message has been edited by Pro Crappie Guide (edited 05-28-2002).]

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heard that hooks don't rust out for very long time - not sure the time frame in fresh water, but more than 2 months. really hope that perch is doing better than i'm hearing. didn't catch a single perch over the weekend, walleye do look slim. looks like lot of boats are keeping fish outside the 14-16" slot limit.

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I know what you mean. We had a great day of fishing on Saturday. Boated plenty of fish and the bite was pretty agressive. What concerned me was I caught a 31 1/2" walleye, biggest I've ever seen length wise. It had 2 hooks still in it's mouth, one with a live leech still on. And it had to be a couple pounds shy of what a walleye that length should be. it maybe went 8-9 pounds. The back end was soooo skinny, and the head so huge. It was not proportioned properly at all. It just doesn't seem like there is adequate baitfish for all of those huge walleyes. I showed the fish to the DNR C.O. in Garrison and talked about the baitfish topic, he didn't seem as concerned as myself. Hopefully he's right....would hate to see all of those hogs die off from not having enough food.

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Something is strange. My family has had a cabin on the east side for 38 years. Normally this time of year when you walk out on the dock (ours is 140' long with all sand) you would see lots of minnows of several different kinds and sizes. So far this year we haven't seen any. Its very strange. Also the young kids usually are out collecting crayfish that they like to play with. (we make them put them back) But this year we have not seen a single live crayfish. On Memorial Day I noticed that there was not a single gull in the sky, at least in our area(I'm assuming do to the lack of minnows). But as others have mentioned the fishing has been exceptional, for now.

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Interesting theories to the condition of the lake. I know that I am new to the site, but on the topic of deeply hooked eyes.
I am an avid bass angler and frequently run into gut hooked bass. I am offering a suggestion to anyone who cares. I have found that one of the best ways to get the entire hook out is this:

If the hook is buried in stomach/gill flesh, if you can, push the hook point further through the flesh until the hook point and barb pass through the other side. Then take wire cutters and cut the hook behind the barb. Pull the rest of the hook shank out the opposite direction with pliers. It has saved a couple fish for me.

To those who already know this, sorry, but it is worth a try to those who haven't tried.

my 2 cents

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Blaze, the first time I fished, I just didn't observe many people releasing fish and people were cathing alot of them. However, last Monday people were tossing them back. You are right through it was tough to release 1 fish that was 16 1/16" long.

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Thomas - I've long suspected people are keeping a fair number of non-slot fish, but no evidence to back it. Have you heard any numbers from CO's or stories of people getting busted with non-slot fish? Hard to be ethical sometimes when you catch a 16.5" walleye and have to toss 'em back.

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I went up to a boat and ask how they did and they quickly shut their livewell and said they did alright.I don't know but i think they had some fish that where not in the slot. because you know they got to have etheir a 14-16 or a wall mounter and if had a walll mounter would'nt you show it off.

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reelbroker...keep in mind that it has also been a slow developing spring...

Take a look now...and if ya don't see any monnows yet with the recent balmy weather...then I would bet there is a food shortage.

PCG (my opinion doesn't matter)

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There is no questiuon in my mind that we are destrying the mille Lacs walleye fishery. There are too many larger walleyes for the forage that is available. The fish look very skinny and they are feeding agressively all the time day or night because they are very hungry, that's why the bite is so good.

We are managing fish with politics instead of biology and the DNR is playing the politically correct game and admiring the emporers new clothes. Guys the emporer is naked and we are killing this fishery by not admitting that something must be done. We must reduce the number of walleyes in the lake to give the forage a chance to come back. It makes me sick to see such a great fishery destroyed by political posturing.

------------------
Bernie Barringer's 10,000 Lakes Guide Service
http://fishingminnesota.com/bernie
Call toll free 800-890-FISH (3474)
[email protected]

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Fish-on,

I know that there are politics involved in the day-to-day functioning of any state agency, but do you really think the DNR's management of Mille Lacs is politically driven?

While I agree that they are not managing the lake based on biology, I don't think it's necessarily just politics.

I think the DNR is simply afraid. They are afraid of the Supreme Court, they are afraid of public opinion vis-a-vis the Treaty and they are afraid of the bands involved in the Treaty. The DNR is caught between a big rock and a bigger rock.

However, something could be done, but it would take strong leadership and the desire to achieve a more permanent fix. I have seen little evidence that this type of leadership exists in the DNR today.

I don't think we are destroying the lake...I think the lake is kind of destroying itself and we are simply standing by and watching it happen. All lakes go through natural cycles. In this day of modern lake management techniques, I think that we could do something to even out the highs and lows of these predator/prey fluctuations.

I don't know how long the tagging study is supposed to last, but I have a pretty strong feeling that the information from the study will allow the DNR to do nothing more than tell us precisely why the walleye population collapsed.

When the government doesn't want to make a hard decision, it always responds with another study, during which, the decision usually makes itself.

The DNR suffers from fear, lack of leadership and an absence of intestinal fortitude. Once the crash occurs, political posturing will become very important because someone will have to take the blame.

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Although fishing on a lake full of starving 'eyes helps the wife, kids, and yes, me enjoy time spent out on the water, strong leadership and solid fishery management practices are ESSENTIAL in allowing our kids and grandkids to enjoy the same type of fishing long into the future.

One thought: to keep the fishery in "balance", why not just start stocking Mille Lacs with fingerling PERCH (aka, Walleye-Chow). My tax dollars need to be spent SOMEWHERE =) HAH!

[This message has been edited by Blaze (edited 06-03-2002).]

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Mille Lacs does a pretty good job of stocking itself with perch. There are just too many larger walleyes waiting to eat them as soon as they are available.

A perch stocking program would just be throwing money down a hole. I don't think there are enough hatcheries in MN to equal what the lake can produce in a year.

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I too think there may be a problem with forage/baitfish in the lake. Keep in mind though that these "skinny" 24 inch walleyes have just recently deposited all of their eggs for the spawn and are starting to feed again.

The lack of spotting any baitfish or catching any perch is disturbing though.

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You should have seen the smile on my face when we drifted in some deeper water (27ft) on Saturday June 1 and I saw what resembled popcorn on my Lowrance X-16. It was a group of forage/baitfish. It seemed to go on for 200 yards or so. Not only was I happy to see cause the walleyes would be close, but knowing their is an alternate food sourcf or the walleyes other then leeches. Did anyone else experience that?

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Husk - just to clarify: stocking Perch in Mille Lacs was a joke. I might be dumb, but I'm not STUPID.

Vikes - we also saw some large schools of baitfish around 25-26' with walleyes all over the edges of those schools. Never did see you on Saturday - what color Ranger were you in?

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Blaze,

My buddies Ranger is a gold Mettalic and Silver with a white interior with a Full Windshield, 225 Merc Opti, and a 9.9 Kicker. There were three of us in the boat.

We were in St. Albans Bay til Noon then we wen to the north end, Near Myr Mar.

I hope you and the wifey had a great anniversary, Count your blessings! My anniversary is in December, so it is twice as hard to get my wife to go fishing then.

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Blaze,

My apologies. Couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Guess I need to spend some time in the boat to restore my sense of humor.

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Made it up to the Cabin again this last weekend on friday eve. Looking for minnows off the dock with many trips to and from the boat. Keep in mind 140' dock, shallow sand, clear water, nice warm week. Never saw a single minnow in 2 full days. NOT ONE! We saw a single gull on Sunday am. We caught alot of skinny 23- 24.5" eyes. Also still not a single live crayfish has been spotted by myself, family, or neighbors I've talked to. We've been going up to the cabin in sunset bay almost every weekend in the summers for 38 years. I think anyone who thinks everything is fine up there must have their head in the sand to put it mildly.

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Blaze-

What were your results did your pattern work? We did ok in St Albans in the morning (8-10 fish), but did do much better on the north and near myr mar in the evening?

Did we make a mistake? confused.gif

[This message has been edited by vikes40for60 (edited 06-04-2002).]

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Husk - no apologies needed. I would definitely have to agree on the need for a little "Aqua-Therapy" to cure my bad case of "Wally-itis". Think the boss will buy it? Will insurance cover it too?!?!

Vikes40/60 - we did just the opposite - started out on Garrison reef and switched over to St. Alban's later in the afternoon. Almost like playing bumper-boats in both places. Maybe we'll catch you out there next time. Ever tried taking the wife crappie fishing on the ice? When it's fast & furious it can truly be addicting.

Back to the topic of this thread tho - we noted a fair amount of baitfish on the graph in both areas with lots of fish activity around 'em too. Good to see, but there are still lots of reasons to be concerned as noted in previous posts.

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

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