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Gill net found on Winnie with rotten fish!


windsurferlawman

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I have been on Winni for years and I have seen this year after year. I've found piles of dead fish in the road ditches, that included huge muskies, northerns, etc..

I recall the first time I heard of this was about 15+ years ago when my friend's dad reported a net he found that was full of rotten fish. Nothing was done and the CO said he couldn't do anything. I've reported it in the past, got the same answer by the CO. Now there's tribal officers and all they can do is send a referral to the tribe. Who knows if anything is done, doesn't look good...

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I know this post will not be around long so here goes.
Does anyone really know what happened, was there a storm that blew the net across the lake or bay???
Did the person forget???
And so on


When I was a kid I lost a basket full of fish due to the motor cutting the rope, somewhere down the line that basket had to come to the surface.
Someone was probally pretty upset with me...

I do not think we can judge until we have all tha fax...

------------------
crazy about fishing

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Big G

I agree with you I was just posting another point of view.

------------------
crazy about fishing

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I have been fishing Winnie for 39 years and guiding on it for nearly 15. I remember the days in the sixties and seventies when we would come across the same senario. Our dads in the boat would always have a fillet knife in the splash well.
I myself have come across the same scene along High Banks many times and have called the CO.
Some do check and pull as required but as many or more don't.
One more thing, Storm or not, that net should have been properly anchored or pulled in time. Nearly all of the nets I have come across have been set near the High banks, Birches landing and south. I can't recall ever seeing any along the west or north shore. I't a long ride over there. I have always seen them using a canoe.

Terry
Terry's Guide Service

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I'm curious about how all this netting/spearing sutff works. Say you are a native american from the Mille Lacs band, can you only spear/net on Mille Lacs or can you go to any lake on any Res or can you go to any lake in the state? DaveH, I see you live in Mound wich is not on a res to my knowledge, are you allowed to spear on any lake you want or do you have to be on a res?

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Farley...

To my knowledge, if I fish/spear/net on non-tribal waters, I am bound by the laws of land that the lake resides. If I fish/spear/net on tribal waters, I am subject to native laws.

I cant answer your question on spearing as I have never speared nor wanted to. Nor do I net. It's the good old fishing rod for me.

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That's nasty. If a net like that was found with a commercial fisherman's tag, he'd lose his business.

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IFallsRon - I can't agree more...

I think that IFallsRon has teh main point here. I am unhappy that the spearing and netting go on but I guess that is the law. When something like this happens and NOBODY (does not matter race, color, sex, height, weight, age) gets punished. That is when it gets me really ticked off...

------------------
-------------------------

GET-ER-DONE

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Okay, so I've read the posts and some of the yelling is over and some are PO'd--we're lucky at this point that the thread is still open.

Now, DaveH, you're a Native American and I presume you prefer to make your own life off the Res. and I respect that.

You pay your own way and abide by the same rules and laws the rest of profess to.

Can you explain (from a prespective I hope we all can appreciate) how the netting and waste by the Bands can be addressed?

You know we have no power to intercede on Soverign law (unless it becomes a federal case), so how can we Anglos work with you and other Native American's to help control the abusers?

Lastly, I agree that some of us don't understand culture issues and our differences, e.g. the housing destruction at Mille Lacs; some of us do understand so correct me if I'm off-base, but Anglos have a more materialistic way of living and Native Americans really don't care about their abodes the way we do, hence the reason why many Native Americans appear to show no regard for their housing.

It's not that they don't care for the houses "we" built, it's just that they find no value in them from a cultural standpoint?

------------------
Chells

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I would like to chime in, if ok?

I have a lot of friend who are Native Americans.

The majority of Native Americans live very strong, healthy, good lives.

The majority of Native Americans do not spear or net.

The majority of Native Americans do not abuse the resources or "burn down" their houses.

The majority of Native Americans do not live like trash.

WE "Anglos" only see or hear about the bad things.....

Unfortunately, there are many "Anglos" who do damage to our resources, through abuse and poaching. But not all of them. Here, we only hear of the "bad" things. However, in this forum and in the local "watering holes" we hear of all the "good things" us "sportsman" do.

Well, when us "good sportsman" complain about those "bad natives", you are comparing the vast "good" to a small "bad".

Yep, there is abuse and there is netting and spearing. But not everyone is poaching fish or deer and not everyone is wasting fish in nets.

Get right down to it, the majority of native Americans are saddened and embarrassed by the lack of responsibility and waste that their counterparts do.

Just like the majority of sportsman are sickened by the 67 walleyes our counterparts poached.

It is easy to complain about all indians and pile them all in one group. But it isn't the case.

Netting fish in Canada is a way of life for many. I know an indian who has a camp on a remote fly-in lake. He brings troubled kids from Fort Hope indian reservation to the camp and teaches them their heritage and trys to get them out of trouble and get them on the right track. This guy lives off the land. He nets fish year around and shoots moose year around. All his catch is transported to Fort Hope to feed the town. They need to net the lake for the food and shoot the moose to eat. He treats the lake with great respect and he monitors the moose population and carefully picks his animals that he harvest.

Unfortunately, some of the fish do go to waste at times. That is part of netting. Things go wrong, things break, weather creates havoc. However, he is very responsible about it.

I do not agree with commercial netting in Minnesota lakes, soley because of the vast amount of anglers.

But to wrap this up..........not all indians are bad and not all anglos are bad either. I would have to say that there are many more "white trash" people destroying our state than there are indians......

I'll never ever forget the story my father told me about a time he went to northern Saskacthawan (spelling???). Anyways, they went for 2 weeks on a big fly in trip for moose, goose, and fish. They had a guide all 14 days. He got to know the guide very well. They were talking about ways of life and my father made a statement of how much better they have it now, now that the anglos have "modernized" their living in his parts. The indian responded with: "sure, it is better. Before, we didn't have booze, and now we have alcoholism and the husbands beating the women because they were drunk. Before, our women and men we very close and respectful to each other. Now, the women are in the bars, cheating on their men." He didn't think that life was all that great. There was a lot more to the conversation, more than what I'll type in here. But you should get the gist. My father to this day has a lot of respect for the guy.

Again, abuse happens, but it is the minority, not the majority. And lastly the average indian is about as concerned about a few indians wasting fish, as our government is about as concerned over having a minor possession of marijuana. A minor possession of marijuana is a $50 fine. Why isn't our government cracking down on all drug users and abusers? We blame the indian community for not cracking on wasting of a few fish, yet "our" community is accepting the fact that our teenagers are abusing drugs and just slap their hands with a $50 fine.

Point is..........it goes both ways and you need to look at it with a very opened, educated mind.

Good Luck!

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If you ask me, a $1500 fine for as many fish over the limit as some of these people are getting busted with latley is a slap on the wrist.

What does marijuana have to do with rotting fish? Our jails are crowded enough, we dont need to toss everyone with a joint in prison.

[This message has been edited by Farley (edited 06-16-2004).]

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Chells,

I cant say it any better than Big G- just did. That was an excellent post Big G-! Thank you.

How can the netting situation be addressed? Allow the Native Band Council and Native court to take care of the offender. If it happened on Native land, then there is nothing a non-native can do about it. I have faith that the offending person will be taken care of. The Native Council doesnt take situations like this lightly. Native people care greatly about the land and the resources that come from it. No one likes to see there be any waste.

With regards to the houses. Imagine that you were always given something all your life and you never had to work for it. You probably wouldnt have too much respect for things given to you. If you worked for it, earned it, that's a whole different story. I dont think Native people have a lack of respect for their homes. I personally take a great deal of pride in my house. I want it to look nice. Not for others...for me.

We dont know the full story behind the found net so none of us can make a judgement call on what happened, who did it and/or why it happened. You cant fault the Band for this. It is the individuals (the person with the name on the net) fault.

I dont like netting. I dont agree that it should be done. That said, netting has been a way of Native life since the beginning. Should a band be netting fish in order to feed their people, I cant find fault with that. I dont know who could find fault with it? Takes a lot of fish to feed a reservation. As long as they stay within the laws set out, while I dont like netting, I have to accept it.

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-16-2004).]

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Chells, BigG, DavidH

Good discussion going guys! I thought this thread would be gone when I checked back. I appreciate the thought that went in to all your posts!

Thank You!

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Just an FYI...

Looks like WCCO is about to have a story on the 6PM segment of the news on poachers for anyone that is interested.

*edit* Oops...put the wrong tv station in.

*second edit* It was a short segment. Still...good to see the TV stations reporting on poachers. They went into the fines poachers have to pay per certain fish over the limit. Glad they are airing things like this. Maybe it will make people think twice.

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-16-2004).]

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Ok-

Here goes one more time. the net was in 14' or water south of Ravens Point, just out side of Sugar. There is no way in hell a storm blew it there as it was anchored by two boat anchors and the only thing he had for floats were a hilex jug and an anti freeze jug.

I have the guys name as it was written on both jugs. I am hesitent to post it on an open forum, so if you wanna know send me an email-

Michael

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Amen Tom! There's no place for "humor" of that nature on this forum, or any other , for that matter. I know this is a topic that generates a great deal of passion but let's try to maintain a reasonable level of dignity. Ol'Sneller

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I'm confused... One of the earlier posts stated something to the fact.."We have been doing this for many years to feed our tribe". This is true but...Hmmmm? So, what you are trying to imply is that if a culture does something for many years then it should be o.k.? Well heck, I know us "anglo's" used to settle our differances with an "in the street at dawn gun fight" and as long as both men where armed it was legal. So.... guess we should be able to kill? after all it was "our" way of life! um, NO!
Next.."feeding our tribe"? I wasn't aware that there where no supermarkets, or resteraunts on the res..? If not.. call up "your" casino bosses and ask them to build and fill one..trust me they have the money.

I relise this is very argumentitive, but come on.. NO ONE is "native" or "unnative" anymore. I was born in this state next to the same river as YOU. You want nobody to say anything about race yet you say you should be able to net ..why?...because of your race. ???
You can not have it both ways. I don't give a **** about your skin color, and hopefully you dont give a **** about mine.. So why should you be able to do these things if "the res. say's it's OK" yet I can not...? See "we" (you and I) don't net ..not because some lawman said we can or can't but because we fish for the sport, and comradery (spelling?) it brings...

Net fishing is not a sport it's a way to feed people. This is not how you or I or any INDIAN feeds his family. And, if it is it is not the normal way of life..

People used to hunt for the family dinner.. If I went out every night to "hunt the family dinner" i would be a poacher.. I as well I should be because our culture has changed.. and we could not have our way of life with a system like that.

Now, I know you will say yes but we didn't choose this"anglo" way of life.. you forced it on us. Well, guess what I didn't choose this way of life either I was born into it just like you, YOU will never change that and neither will I. If I don't like it I have the choice to move, and likewise you also have the choice. I will not expect you to like this, rightfully so, because just like me WE cant change the past. However, I, and anyone with true resolve can change the future and that means, like it or not, Eqaullity for all. I cant net? then you cant net! I cant spear? then you cant spear..etc.

Now if you dont agree with that then don't complain to us when someone doesnt treat you like "one of the guys" because you didnt want the same rule book.

Its silly that we have to watch what we say on a forum like this because we may not treat every one with the "same" respect that they deserve, but they do not have to follow the same laws that we "anglo's" deserve.

My grandpa use to say " it's unwise to tell someone to stop smoking while you have a cigerette hanging from your mouth"..
Sounds alot like a "native" saying "I shouldn't have to follow you laws" while he/she says "treat me like everyone else."


Just my opinion!


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I'd rather be fishing and think about church, than be at church and thinking about fishing!

[This message has been edited by sirlips (edited 06-16-2004).]

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The comments I made today were uncalled for, so I apologize with my deepest sincerities, if you think the statements I made from experiences I have had to ban me from this then fine. I know now from listening to chells, davidh and others that i am either of the many or few who have misconceptions about native american. For those who I have offended heres my email address huskiesplayer15 at yahoo.com, if your around the cities we'll hook up and i buy you some wings or tacos or something and you can tell me the good things that they do. So I am sorry again and do apologize, I will learn to just keep my mouth and fingers shut when it comes political/moral/opinion topics.
I will just stick to helping people catch fish and have more fun.
Best Fishes
Chris

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sirlips...I assume that you are referring to me since I am the only Native posting in this thread.

Lets begin to pick apart what you posted...

You said that I said,

quote:

We have been doing this for many years to feed our tribe.

Wrong. I said,

quote:

netting has been a way of Native life since the beginning.


I do not live on a reservation. My band isn't even in this state. You know what? I shop at Cub and Rainbow just like you do.

You said I said,

quote:


feeding our tribe


Wrong again. I said...

quote:


Takes a lot of fish to feed a reservation



If you want to call my family "my tribe", then yes, I do keep the occasional fish that I catch and my tribe/family has it with dinner.

Now...you said for me to call up my casino bosses. Where the hell do you get off calling them MY casino bosses??? I NEVER stated what nation I am from. You certainly assume a lot since you must think I live on a reservation that is subsidized by a casino. God...I WISH! I wouldn't have to work every day from 8 to 5 as a Systems Administrator. I could fish all day long then. Wow...that would be a great life.

You aren't batting too well here. What the heck...lets continue to pick apart your "opinion".

You said...

quote:


NO ONE is "native" or "unnative" anymore. I was born in this state next to the same river as YOU.


That is just laughable. Serious. Think before you type next time. Again you are assuming quite a bit here since I wasn't even born in this state.

You said...

quote:


You want nobody to say anything about race yet you say you should be able to net ..why?...because of your race. ???

Again..think before you type. Accusing someone of something because of their race is called racism.

*meh*

I am going to stop here and not bother to pick your post apart any further. If I was speaking to someone who came across with the least little bit of Native knowledge then I would continue. Even if you pretended that you had some understanding then I would go on. However, I feel like I would just be talking to a brick wall here if I pursued this any further.

Lastly, I never asked to be treated any differently. As a matter of fact, had you attempted to read any of my posts in this thread, I pay my way just like the "good ol boy" that you come across as.

You may want to take some of your Grandpas advice there before you try replying again.

[This message has been edited by DavidH (edited 06-16-2004).]

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quote:

huskiesplayer15
wrote

The comments I made today were uncalled for, so I apologize with my deepest sincerities, if you think the statements I made from experiences I have had to ban me from this then fine. I know now from listening to chells, davidh and others that i am either of the many or few who have misconceptions about native american. For those who I have offended heres my email address huskiesplayer15 at yahoo.com, if your around the cities we'll hook up and i buy you some wings or tacos or something and you can tell me the good things that they do. So I am sorry again and do apologize, I will learn to just keep my mouth and fingers shut when it comes political/moral/opinion topics.

I will just stick to helping people catch fish and have more fun.

Best Fishes

Chris

Chris, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. If you are ever out in Mound, I would be more than happy to take you out on the lake I live on and do a little fishing. I'll even bring the beer smile.gif

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Ok, my turn-

David H said:

"God...I WISH! I wouldn't have to work every day from 8 to 5 as a Systems Administrator. I could fish all day long then. Wow...that would be a great life."

Yeah Dave, and you wouldn't even have to check those nets or clean the fish you caught in them. You could just toss them in the woods or leave them in the water to rot like several other tribal members! Hell, no one want's to be different, right???

David H also said:
"Lastly, I never asked to be treated any differently."

Ok Dave, you are fooling about 1 person with that line and here is proof...
"netting has been a way of Native life since the beginning."

Wrong Dave- there had to be that first time some native american carved a stick to a point and speared a fish. Why can't that first day happen for me?

The end of tribal netting is nearer than you may think Dave and it will come to an end because of sportsmen and women who are fed up with what the natives have done to our lakes! Yes, I said our lakes! They are every bit as much mine as they are yours.

One example--- Red Lake- ruined! They netted everything they could and then some- Sure, the good old MN DNR restocks it with 'Eyes after they are all gone, but what else is the DNR good for?

Dave- I am not saying that you are doing anything-

You wanna talk about history this and history that, well in recent history the natives have a crappy record with keeping up a decent image. Piles of fish have been found countless times in the Walker-Bena area. Those fish came from nets and I'll give you 3 guesses on who owns and placed those nets.

michael


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Lets get this clear one last time.

I...dont...like...netting.

ok? Are we clear on that? Stop thinking that I agree with netting. Will I be happy when there is no netting? HELL YES!

Holy **** . Some of you seem to think that I think this netting thing is ok. Am I not explaining myself correctly here? Is there something more that I could say that I havent that would convince you that I am against netting?

How about this...

DAVIDH HATES NETTING AND DOESNT THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE ANYMORE!!!

Is that clear enough for you windsurferlawman???

You wote,

quote:


David H also said:

"Lastly, I never asked to be treated any differently."

Ok Dave, you are fooling about 1 person with that line and here is proof...

"netting has been a way of Native life since the beginning."


Ya? And? What do those two statements have to do with each other? Yes...netting has been a way of life for Natives since the beginning. This is a fact. What does that have to do with me stating that I dont want to be treated any differently?

Know what? Dont answer that question. I have had it with this thread. I leave you all to accuse anyone of anything you want for whatever reason.

Adios. I am outta here.

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Guys, lets all step back and take a chill pill. And a big one at that.

Dave H is not part of the problem, he is being hit unfairly because he said he is an Indian. HE DID NOT PLACE THOSE NETS. WHY BE MAD AT HIM!

I know some are very angry. We have seen way too many releases about poaching this spring, and now more discussion of fish wasting on nets.

Lets calmly get back to the problem. Someone is not following the rules in netting. And we need to do what we can to try and put an end to this waste of resource, accidental or intentional.

Our Twin Cities Media is a waste of time. they will not touch this with a 10 foot pole. Maybe the Outdoor News or some sportsmans magazine would be able to help.

We need to get some addresses to send letters to the proper tribal authorities that as sportsmen we have concerns about this net being left and wasted resources.

We resolve nothing by attacks against one another. Dave H may be a valued resource in trying to resolve the problem. Heck, he may even decide to send a letter himself.

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Man, I log-off for the night and I just read all of these new postings and there are dead and wounded laying all around, how sad.

DaveH, if you happen to read this, please don't let those who would rather remain angry keep your valuable insights out of this thread.

It's obvious that you're the "Whipping Child" due to your honesty here and I appreciate you sticking your neck out.

I'd like to see more "lights come on" as it did for Michael--after all, isn't that what we all need more of?

One critical item I'd like us all to keep in mind is that regardless of the other offenses noted in this thread that are used to nullify the premis of this specific "crime", it would do all of good to stay on track and on this issue alone.

It's quite obvious that mankind in general has many who just can't follow moral or other laws and they go their own way. These people deserve punishment regardles of their heritage.

What would be nice to see from this specific incident is a consorted effort to first discover of this was an accident or an actual "crime"; if it is a punishable offense, then it would be great to see this person make a public apology and let the Band leadership decide on the next course of action.

Their "punishment" may not be what we all agree is just; however, it will be their business, not ours.

The bottom line is that the Soverign people are just that--we helped create this Nation within a Nation, and like it or not, it is what it is.

It's no different than if we were "subject" to the laws of some other Nation or Country.

Imagine what our lives would be like if punishment for crimes committed in America were dictated by, say, Saudi Arabia?

Shop lifters would be running around with missing fingers or hands! Man, would that make things around here difficult!

------------------
Chells

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