why use a guide?

[say_der]

The post on guides kind of got me thinking - why pay someone a couple or few hundred dollars for a day of fishing?

I've never fished with one.

[Seabass77]

A guide will do several things for you, some people will get more out of a guide than others.

1 - show you where to fish on a lake. A good guide should be able to put you on fish, almost guaranteed, weather, and other conditions not withstanding.

2 - Technique, fishing with a guide can be helpful for those who have not used a particular method of fishing. I learned to vertical jig on Basswood with a guide. I plan on starting musky fishing this summer. Never really done it before. I plan on hiring a guide at least once or twice.

3 - A good guide should be able to tell you about the biology, environment, history, and composition of a lake and area. This adds to your enjoyment of the lake and fishing experience.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Not everybody gets to go fishing as often as some of us do. I myself have never hired a guide either, but some of my best friends are guides, and I have guided some.

If you only get to go fishing 1-3 times a year you dont want to have to look for the fish and try to figure out what they are bitting on. Well, if you only get to go that many times a year you may not know how to read weather patterns and understand fish seasonl patterns...

What better way to ensure that you have a better chance of getting fish, having a good time and learning a little something along the way.... Cheep if you ask me!

[Slugo]

They can often have info on the local lake that you wouldn't know..Like I had a guide for a day on Kab. a few years back he had us fishing 45 to 50 ft of water for walleye.
I would have not even thought to look that deep. I have since then tho. I also discovered how nice a 4 stroke kicker is!

[End of the Line]

I use a guide when I go lots of places, even if I have the equipment. A lot of times it is still cheaper to hire someone and use there equipment then it is to bring your own. For instance I went on a trip once and the hotel package I got once with the guided trip was cheaper than towing my boat with my pick-up, using my gas in the boat, and then pay for a higher hotel cost because it wasnt a package deal. Not to mention a lot less stress and hassle.
Besides I only have so many days of vacation and I dont want to waste a day or 2 figuring out the lake when I only have 3 days to be there.
There are other times such as on my boat now most people simply dont have alot of the expensive eqipment that it takes or a boat considered safe enough to go fishing on Lake Superior.

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End of the Line Charters
Lake Superior
1-888-U-HOOK-EM
www.minnesotacharterfishing.com

[panolo]

I had never used a guide until a few years ago. I fish alot and have a ton of confidence in my ability to find and catch fish. That did not stop me from enlisting the service of a guide. I learned many techniques and some general knowledge that has helped me become a better angler. IMO it was money well spent and I will gladly hire other guides. I already have planned on contacting a local guide I found on this site because he guides on the river. I want to become a better river fisherman and I believe by hiring this guide I can pick up some tricks and tips.

[guideman]

Fishing a day with a guide should be a learning experience, catching fish is part of it. However if that is all you get out of it, you really didn't get your moneys worth.

I can't tell you how many times I have taken people out, that live on the Big V. Only to have them say, they would never have fished the area we caught fish in, or used the presentation that I had showed them.

Good guides are also teachers, I get a big kick from that aspect of guiding.
If your only on big lake like the Big V for a few days, a day with a guide can save you days of seaching for a good bite.

Your spending maybe a couple grand on a family vacation, a half or full day of fishing with a guide is but a small expence to insure that your fishing is a success.

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Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
aceguideservice.com
Lake Vermilion
Muskies and More.

Pro Staff Member.
Catch-n Tackle.
CKat Custom Muskie rods.
Bearpaws Handpoured Baits
Ohio Pro Lure.
Muskie Nut Tackle.
Big Chimney Muskie Baits.
Marcum.

[This message has been edited by guideman (edited 05-12-2004).]

[psegriz]

Another instance a guide would be helpful if not necesary would be a lake that is so big and dotted with islands. People can get lost, like happened to a group that was fishing up in Canada the week b4 us. I also think that the larger a lake is the more time that can be wasted, just trying to find fish.

GRIZ

[jegerjack]

Here I a question I have always wondered. If the fishing is no good, do any of you who guide, have some sort of refund plan?

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[uffdapete]

Why use a guide? If you want to shorten the learning curve on a specific body of water the fee a good guide charges is a bargain. You could spend years on the same body of water learning what they can show you in a day.

I've learned many new techniques and have also been given many good pointers on more fundamental aspects of fishing. By the way I fished for 35 years before I formally hired a guide.

Refunds? Ever go fishing with a guy who just seriously outfished you? And wonder why? It is oftentimes focus or concentration. The bites are there and you're not feeling them or too slow on the hookset. Sure there are plenty of days when it's tough for a guide too. But you can't blame the guide for weather, fronts, your lack of focus or a zillion other factors over which they have no control. I evaluate a guide on much I learn and how personable they are. Catching a lot of fish is a bonus.

Something else I would add is if you hire a guide and he puts you on a great spot and you plan on fishing the lake after that without him, ask if it's okay to come back to that spot and respect the answer. They work very hard to find those spots and to think you have a right to go back there and pound it is not right. They might point out some other spots they're not so concerned about. To put it another way don't ever try and secretly mark GPS coordinates of his honey hole. If I were a guide and that happened it's game over - now.

[silverbullet]

refunds? I hired a guide on mille lacs a couple years back. he took me out in his $40,000 boat,let me fish with $200 rods and spent about $40 in snacks and bait for me. The fishing was terrible. We ran all over the lake and probably burned up $70 in gas and oil. We saw fish after fish on the locator and they wouldnt bite. i wonder if i should have asked for a refund after the investment that guide put into me to get me some fish.

jegerjack, are you for real?

[jegerjack]

Yes I am for real, and watch the sarcasm, it was a simple question. I have never used a guide and I never will so how the heck am I supposed to know what they do. Also I am guessing that you are not guide being that you use one.

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[sami0115]

i used a guide on my "home lake", a lake that i have fished for 20 years... and i learned quite a bit !!! nothing wrong with another point of view...

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YIPPPPEEEEEEEE

[Scoot]

jegerjack, although you're definitely right about the sarcasm, I agree with sb. If you pay for a prescription and don't get better, you don't give the pharmacist a refund. Different, but similar. This is how these fellas (and a very few gals) make a living. You pay them for their effort and knowledge, not for fish production. I don't see hiring a guide as an opportunity to catch more fish, I'd look at it as an opportunity to learn.

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Scoot

RodsbyEngel: custom made fishing rods

[Animal]

A lot of people don't have the gear or knowledge to go out and catch some fish so they hire someone to take them out. Others might have only three or four days to fish and want to learn a few spots.

I recently attended a walleye seminar where Guideman was one of the speakers. I learned a lot just listening to him. Makes me wonder what I could learn if I went fishing with him for a day.

[The Rainman]

I hate it when I go fishing and start to nail the fish, next thing I know I have guide or charter boats around me!!!
Take your dead weight clients away from me...Or give me some of their money!
If I were guiding, no fish...no pay.
PS~ I will get paid!

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Still I wonder....Who'll stop the rain?

[guideman]

Hey Fisky,
I'll look forward to that call.
Your right about my favorite fish, June can't come fast enough for me.

As far as fishing a spot that has boats on it, I'll seldome stop unless it's a
big area. The guys up here that guide often share spots with others as we all work together on occassion and we know each other pretty well.

I have tourist drive up and follow me around while I fish all the time. They don't ask nor do they shy away from my markers. I had a guy last year run into my boat and that happens more than you think.

Local guides moving in on other people fishing, has never been a problem, on a lake with 40,000 acers of water. There is always somewhere else to fish, that is just as good as that spot anyway.

However, the reverse happens to me all the time, should I tell them to leave? We generally tollerate it, unless they get to pushy. If I need to, I just pull up and go elswhere, it just isn't worth the hassel, to get everyone all worked up over a fishing spot. Afterall, it's just fishing man!

36 hours to go!!!

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Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
aceguideservice.com
Lake Vermilion
Muskies and More.

Pro Staff Member.
Catch-n Tackle.
CKat Custom Muskie rods.
Bearpaws Handpoured Baits
Ohio Pro Lure.
Muskie Nut Tackle.
Big Chimney Muskie Baits.
Marcum.

[The Rainman]

Hey "old guy", you talking to me????? If so, check that attitude bud....You have NO IDEA WHAT I DO!!!!
BTW, I don't drink nor does ANYONE in my boat. Are you assuming I'm a drunk???

quote- Hey New guy, Taking your friends fishing and slaming a cold 12 pack while your fishing ain't guiding. -quote

PS- I'd wager to say I've put more..and bigger fish in my boat than you ever have. My directive is towards you Terry since I'm the only "new guy" posting, I'd assume all your remarks are directed towards me...RIGHT? BTW, I do have a name, please use it and I'll pay you the courtesy as well.

What a freindly welcome! We have more fun!
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Still I wonder....Who'll stop the rain?

[This message has been edited by The Rainman (edited 05-13-2004).]

[This message has been edited by The Rainman (edited 05-13-2004).]

[honker23]

Terry I like your attitude. I know it's a business, but it's a business of educating people. I get a little upset with the attitude of some when they get so worked up over "their spot". If a guide took me walleye fishing and I had a great day, I would be stupid not to return and try it again. Also i would look for similar structures on the lake incase the bite slowed. Most honey holes were shown to you, meaning everyone-not you personally, so it's not such a secret. I better stop.
Good luck to all this weekend.

[wastewaterguru]

I have been on two or three "guided" trips in my life. All were excellent experiences.

I prefer to try to learn lakes on my own.....because after all that's what fishing is all about.

But, a guide can teach you a lot.

Just remember that guides usually don't get to choose who they take fishing...and it can't be easy dealing with unsocial personalities and people with no coordination.

I prefer to fish by myself. No whining, no complaining, no attitudes.

I respect what guides do, and admit that it isn't a career that I aspire to. Besides, the scenery at my job pretty good too......

Sewer pipes, wastewater ponds, etc.,

But I travel a lot with my fishing pole in the car........and that aint too bad!!!!

[guideman]

Wow,
Hey man, my use of the term "New guy" was only due to the fact, that I couldn't remember your screen name.
(Is that your real name rainman ?) I didn't feel like going back a page to find out.

You read but you missunderstand, I was just using a medaphor to explain that guiding, isn't recreational fishing.

As far as the job reverence goes geese man, lighten up. I thought the office or factory worker, was a pretty general description. I hardly consider it down grading anyone, hell I worked in a dam factory for most of my life. Whatever it is you do, it's obviously very stressfull.

Take a tip from this "Old guy" take a big, deep, breath and relax. life is way to short, to go get all worked up over what some guy says on the fishing board.

Happy Opener!

------------------

Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
aceguideservice.com
Lake Vermilion
Muskies and More.

Pro Staff Member.
Catch-n Tackle.
CKat Custom Muskie rods.
Bearpaws Handpoured Baits
Ohio Pro Lure.
Muskie Nut Tackle.
Big Chimney Muskie Baits.
Marcum.

[This message has been edited by guideman (edited 05-13-2004).]

[Slugo]

Hey Guideman what did you say to him? geeze...
Guides in general work there buts off. at one point I considered it. Then I started talking to some guides and doing the math and ect... it's tough! I read an article once about guiding several years back I think it was by the Griz. He said that guideing was just a way to have a real nice boat, you still have to make a living. He also talked about living in his camper alot of the time because ther was no time to go home between trips. That has always stuck in my mind. I try to remember that when my jobws sucks and I think "I wish I could fish for a living"
OH yea what color boat do you have so I can follow you around Vermillion this weekend. heheheheh

[guideman]

Most guides will tell you they work the hardest, when the fishing is tough.
My daily expences are about $75.00 give or take a few bucks. As much as you'd like to pound them, every time you go out, it just ain't happening.

I honestly don't have to many bad days however if my boat breaks down or there is some reason my customers were not at all happy with their trip. I will give them a free half day trip the next time they come back to Vermilion.

The worst thing a guide can have, is a bad reference from a former client. If you treat them poorly, the resort they are at will hear about it and you won't get another trip from them. Believe me nobody wants you to catch a fish more than your guide. He puts his reputation on the line every time he goes out.

Put it this way, when you have a bad or unproductive day at work, do you tell your boss not to pay you for that day?
I don't think so.

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Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
aceguideservice.com
Lake Vermilion
Muskies and More.

Pro Staff Member.
Catch-n Tackle.
CKat Custom Muskie rods.
Bearpaws Handpoured Baits
Ohio Pro Lure.
Muskie Nut Tackle.
Big Chimney Muskie Baits.
Marcum.

[jegerjack]

The Rainman makes an interesting point, maybe Guideman can answer it. If you are guiding and say you have a spot you love to take clients to but at that point there are a few boats their. Do you avoid that spot even though the fishing might be good there? What are the feelings on avoiding crowds, is it a must when guiding?

Thanks, JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[fiskyknut]

Very well said Terry. If I had the beans and made it out you're way....which I've always wanted to, I would give you a ring.

Have a great opener, although for your prefered fish {I think} you probably still have a bit of a wait!

Regards....fiskyknut

[guideman]

Hey New guy,
Go fishing every day under all weather conditions, hot, cold, rain, snow, wind and anything else you can think of. Do it with people that can't fish and have no idea what they are doing.

Do that for a full season and then see if you'd do it for free, every time you have a bad day. Any guide that offers a free trip, if their clients don't catch fish, is a fool and they won't be in business very long.

Taking your friends fishing and slaming a cold 12 pack while your fishing ain't guiding. Those guides and charter boats have most likely, been fishing on "Your Spot" for years. Think about spending about 150 days a year, most with people that can't fish, and you don't get to fish, because your taking care of your customers. Suddenly you realize you are working pretty hard for that guide fee.

Fishing for a living sounds great to a guy that works in an office or factory.
I admit it can be a great way to make a living but it's still a job, it has the same mental stress and pressures that come with any job, except the scenery is much better.

Don't take my word for it, go quit your job and try it for a season, you could find that your perspective as changed.
Don't expect to get rich right away, it took me 3 years to make my first mill.

Have a great opening day everyone, I'll be working...

------------------

Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
aceguideservice.com
Lake Vermilion
Muskies and More.

Pro Staff Member.
Catch-n Tackle.
CKat Custom Muskie rods.
Bearpaws Handpoured Baits
Ohio Pro Lure.
Muskie Nut Tackle.
Big Chimney Muskie Baits.
Marcum.

[snaggletooth]

I am not sure if this will make any sense to any of you about this tpoic, but I am a guide and do it for a resort full time. Meaning that I fish in the summer, guide waterfowl in Sept., Oct., and into Nov. if the weather holds. Then onto winter fishing and in the spring we get our charter boats ready(27` Sportcrafts) and then back to summer fishing. I come from a family that has commercial fished, my dad owns a tackle store and I have worked for the resort since I was 15, and started guiding when I was 18. I am now 25. I have never been totally skunked with customers. But I have had very tough days. No guide can promise or gaurentee fish. That is why it is called fishing not catching. And I am a guide not a GOD just like any other guide. Somedays we just can't get the fish. As far a the iggnorant guy(forgot his call name) I have been fishing hundreds of times and had a private boat pull onto "my" spot and then proceed to either fowl things up or push me off. I hate it. I have also did very well a day before on a spot and get back there the following morning and a private boat is there and I either pass it up or try to fish with them. And they are the ones upset at this. Why?? A lake is not private property and anyone can fish anywhere. I hate having "share" spots with little boats but I may want to share a spot with them somedays so I "grin and bare it." I can not believe some of the attitudes I have read on this topic and on the other hand am quite pleased with the number of you who speak about us guides with a great sense of respect. Thank you to all of you who do that.

[Sgt. Rock]

I've never used a guide but I'm considering it for a couple trips this year. My question is on tipping above the basic cost. I know it is not expected but I'm sure it is very commonplace. What is a standard amount that is not insulting?? Is it a % of the total cost or just a flat fee?? I'd appreciate those of you that do guide comments.

[Guest]

Just because a guide shows you a hot spot for that day, does it mean that you are going to always do good there? Usually if I go to a spot that I like, and someone is there I realize that this is 1. a public spot and I try to fish with them and most people have no problem sharing a spot as long as you show respect.
If you can't have people around you? DO NOT fish walleye alley on the St. Louis. By 6 am the boats are litterly a foot apart in spots but all seem to have fun and catch lots of fish.
I ask this of the guide bashers? If you seen a guide and his party nailing the walleyes? You would not try to get close?

It sounds like this has turned into is a slam on guides by the jealous, that would love to fish for a living but cannot I know I sure would, but to have stress in a time that I should be realxing? This is something that I have not been able to come to terms with yet.

[Terry Hagstrom]

This whole posting is the same kind of junk I would get hammered with as a forum leader. Some would go as far as berating me for not giving them GPS coordinates.

I'm no longer on the Metro, Leech forum for this reason in general.
People think that guiding is this glamorus job and you make all kinds of money. I do it because I have a great time with the people I take out.
As some of the guides noted in their postings, there are losses involved with break downs, no shows, etc.
Earnings equate to about $10-15.00 an hour if you sit down and do the math with all expenses involved (professional liabilty insurance, gas, oil, bait, landing fee, equipment repair and replacement) and approx. 10-11 hours for the day.

This includes prep before the client arrives and cleaning fish and the boat after the trip.
I have been guiding for about 15 years and have been very fortunate to have had GREAT clients.

Many have come back time and time again and we have developed great realtionships.
They understand that to hire a guide is not only to catch fish but to at least take something home with them to use the next time their on the water and help them be more successful, not LUCKY!.

I got pretty cranked after reading the Brainerd article last week. If only the real truth were told and REAL names were used there would have been more credibilty behind it.
I stepping down from my soap box now before I fall off.
Thank you.

Thats my 2 cents worth.

Terry Hagstrom
Terry's Guide Service
www.fishingmn.com/terry