question to buck hunters?

[almostthere!]

Who would shoot a dream buck if given the chance? Here is the senario. You are nine feet up in a treestand. You have a 12 gauge shooting rifled slugs from a 26 inch bird barrel. The dream buck shows up but it is in the direct path of a house 500 yards away (no trees in between). The buck is 75 yards away in a freshly plowed over soybean field. You have consistantly hit the second circle from the bull's eye from the 100 yard range. Would you take the shot or let it go?

[riverrat56]

well from 9 ft up in a tree if u do miss low and in a plowed soybean feild the slug will likely hit the ground and stay in there, but i would still be hesitant to take the shot.if its in a soybean feild chances are it will clear the farm site eventually but if i only had the chance for i quick shot i dont know if i would take it. no deer is worth endangering human life for so no probally not. just a question? how in the world do you think so a situation like this??

[Stratosman]

I'd wait till it cleared the house, if the house is 500 yards away, it wouldn't have to move too far.

[bigbucks]

If the ground wasn't rocky or frozen I'd shoot if I wasn't going to have a shot when it cleared the house. It's a slug, they drop like crazy & would just go into the ground. If you knew it would clear the house or any of the above conditions weren't true, I'd definitely wait.

[bigbucks]

Besides, my dream buck is so big I don't think I could lob a slug over him at 75 yards...

[PerchJerker]

Stratosman has the right answer in my opinion - at those ranges, as soon as the buck moves a step or two the house would not be in line behind him any more.

[kpj5br]

First of all, I would NOT be hunting 500 yards from a house just because of a situation like this.

If I was, I would not take the shot. Agreed, the likelihood of the slug travelling to the house is extremely slim, but with my luck, the one-in-a-million would happen...

[almostthere!]

I've been in the field too often and too long and have experienced all kinds of wierd situations. There is always that one mysterious deer that for some unknown reason just happens to be under your stand and you have no idea how it came there.

I was just curious if any buck hunter would shoot in such a situation: just looking for some opinions.

[bigbucks]

Do you realize 500 yards is over a 1/4 mile. Half the deer stands in Central MN are probably within 1/4-1/2 mile of a house, that's why you can't use rifles.

[chucker34]

I would shoot, especially if I was in a treestand shooting down at an angle and the missed shot would enter the ground. I if I could, I too would wait until the buck made it a few steps past the path of the house. I plan to bow and gun hunt on my property in an area that is in a wooded area only 300 yards away from lake cabins and an unimproved dirt road. As long as what you are doing is legal and you are cautious - i.e., making certain there are no human beings located directly behind your target - the buck - or that an errant shot would not travel far enough to hit something in the distance (hence shooting down from a treestand) I see no problem with taking the shot.

[barebackjack]

Not a buck hunter but Ill answer anyhow, If Im doing my math right and picturing this correctly, I think Id shoot, dont see as the house would be in the spectrum there, however if it was anywhere near the end of my sights, not a chance.

------------------
barebackjack IBOT#197
Why ride the wagon when the walk is so scenic?????????

[stockchopper]

I agree mostly with Chucker34, . Slugs don't travel very far, but I still wouldn't take the shot not that in any way it would hit the house, just on the fact it would not feel right shooting at a target with a house right behind it. We also know deer move and a few yards would put it out of line with house. It would be like pheasant hunting and a pheasant is standing out in the open between you and the poster directly a 100 yards away. The bird is 20 yards from you. Now we all know pheasant shot can't go a 100 yards but to pull the trigger when another human being in line with target just ain't right. Safety first, Big deer second.

[This message has been edited by stockchopper (edited 09-29-2004).]

[MikeYager - Suzuki]

I would wait till it moved. The shot could ric off a rock and hit the house.

[viking_fan]

This is a good question !!!
Are you sure the house is that far away?
What kind of ammo are you using?
what kind of angle is the shot?
I only deer hunt with slugs and have for twenty years. They are much better than the old days but some stand out more than others.
Regular old Remingtons put the drop rate on the box, and there slugs drop 10 inches at the first one hundred yards. at 5 they would be in the ground shooting straight on. With a rifled barrel and sabot slugs you can get much better distance. Shooting down at a good angle would ( If you missed the deer ) in no way be able to travel that far.
Just my 2 cents

[Gissert]

Interesting question.

Here is the method that I have come up with over the years. I rarely hunt out of a permanent stand or tree stands. I have made effective use of (dont't laugh) plastic lawn chairs placed in strategic locations prior to season. This way, I always have a good location, depending on wind direction.

Since I am on the ground, some shots will not have a safe backstop. When I place these chairs prior so season, I sit down and give each location a good mental survey. I take in mind where houses and roads are, and then figure out where my "no shoot" zones are. I will not shoot at a deer in those locations under any circumstances. So far, I have only had to pass up one chance, and those deer eventually moved into zone that was safe to shoot.

[BLACKJACK]

You can never be too safe, how would you like to have a 12 gauge slug screaming thru your house? If you know the house is there, its not a safe shot!! How about ricochets off of rocks, frozen ground, antlers? No deer is worth someone getting shot! Wait until they are well clear of the house.

Gissert, I do most of my slug hunting from chairs, it gives you more spot options than a fixed stand and that added height is not as big a factor for gun hunting.

[viking_fan]

There is no way a slug can travel that far !!!
It weights to much and if you did ricochet it would slow it down, not to mention it would then be distorted and not be as aerodynamic. (He's not shooting at ducks here, But at a Buck at a downward angle)
Hope you didn't lose a Buck of a lifetime
With that said if you don't feel comfortable don't take the shoot. Whatever you choose in this situation would be OK.

[picksbigwagon]

this actually happened to me a few years ago, excpet that it wasn't a house, it was my borther in laws blazer that was parked 25 yards behind my 10 pointer. I had told him not to pull it up that far, but he ignored me, and on that fact alone I almost pulled the trigger, of course I waited and tried to thread on through the thicket, but I didn't hit it, I looked for 2 hours for any sign of blood and found nothing.....in hind sight, how much would a new radiator have cost me anyway..........

[bigbucks]

Your brother in law probably shouldn't be shot, maybe just slapped around a little. 25 yards is a whole different thing than 500, why in the world would he park there?

I seriously think you people that think that a shotgun slug will richocet ou to 500 yards need to go out on a hill someplace & shoot slugs into a gigantic open, snow covered field & see if there's any possible stinking way you can get it to go beyond probably about 300 yards. You might do that, by holding 6" below the sun at about 3pm, but it won't go 500. You're throwing an ounce or more of led slightly faster than the speed of a world champion shot putter. I'm not upset, I just think some of you guys are a little off your rockers. To me that's like saying, "so you've got this nice buck at 15 yards, you're in an elevated tree stand, there's a house 150 yards behind him, should you shoot him? Your bow is set at 62 pounds..." Oh yes, & an owl is hooting somewhere deep in the woods...

[barebackjack]

If you feel comforatable taking the shot take it, if not dont, pretty plain and simple in my book, no expert on bullets or slugs but id agree that a slug wouldnt travel the 500 yards, just an assumption.

------------------
barebackjack IBOT#197
Why ride the wagon when the walk is so scenic?????????

[paceman]

Bigbucks......If an owl hoots deep in the forest and nobody is there to here it. Does it make a sound?????????? Or are you off dragging that little deer you shot with your 62# bow???????????

[BLACKJACK]

Bigbucks, are you ready to stand out at 500 yards and let people fire slugs at you? I'll bet not. We've all seen people that think if they can see deer they can shoot at them, regardless of the distance. And occaisioanlly those deer go down, perpetuating the long shots (one of my pet peeves, but a topic for another discussion).

Several years ago my Dad was posted and saw a deer walking across a flat, he "was going to turn" it, raised his gun up and shot, the deer dropped. We paced it off at 167 yards. And that was with a 16 gauge. Granted 167 yards is only 1/3 the way to 500 yards but with a little more barrel elevation, I think a slug would go 500 yards. I wouldn't want people taking that shot if it was my house and I'll bet you wouldn't either.

In order to not provide fuel for the anti-hunters, we owe it to ourselves and other hunters not to take bad shots, and taking shot when the background is plainly unsafe is asking for trouble.

[bigbucks]

BlackJack, now come on man, remember the question wasn't: So there's a house at 500 yards, would it be a good idea to try to shoot at it & see if I can hit it, because it couldn't get there anyway? Of course I wouldn't stand out there at 500 yards or any distance & tell somebody to try to hit me. I am an *****, but not to that extent.

To clarify, I shot a deer with my muzzleloader at about 15 yards two years ago from an elevated stand. I was pointing pretty much in the direction of my house which was about 350 yards away. Was I worried about hitting it? No, I don't know if I shot in line with it or not, on that type of shot I knew it wasn't an issue.

Now if there would have been a deer at say 200 yards, with my house directly behind it at that same range, would I shoot at it? Absolutely not!

I agree when in doubt you have to err on the side of caution, but some things are simply not in doubt.

PS- Paceman thanks for ripping on me for the puny deer I shot last weekend. I had the best time having my buddies help me track it & looking for blood about 10' from where it was laying, where'd I'd already gutted it two hours earlier, within close proximity of the stand. Okay, I was messing with them a little perhaps. I'm sure I'll pay for that, but that's alright.

[bigbucks]

Since when is the word "i d i o t" a bad word? Besides I was calling myself that. I'm not upset, just amazed.

[BLACKJACK]

bigbucks, you're right, 500 yards is a loooong ways, but its always best to stay on the cautious side, firearms kill! And the whole richochet thing is like skipping rocks, the steeper the angle of the shot, the better odds that it will just go into the ground, the longer the angle, the better chance of a skip. But you never know what will happen and I was just trying to say you can't be too careful.

Good luck this weekend! Go Twins!

[bigbucks]

Good luck to you BLACKJACK & everybody else this weekend. Leaving work about 3:00 to go jump a couple potholes before 4:00 & then heading to the bow stand. Should be a good day for both.

[LOWguy]

As I read this there is no mention of how the deer relates to the hunter. You could be 50 ft. up in a tree and still be shooting up. If you have to even think about it its probably not safe. Lets not forget there could be someone outside the house. BECAREFUL AND BE SAFE

[LuciandTim]

That deer was dead the day you opened this topic.....

[96trigger]

Ok, just a little information for all of you. I teach science in SEMN and this question really got me thinking. So I did some investigation and some calculating. I had to assume some things so here is what I did. I assumed the height of the tree stand was 15 ft. and that the bullet hit the ground at 75 yards, not the deer. I also assumed that it was a clean miss. In addition, I went to the federal website and got ballistics for a sabot federal shell with a muzzle velocity of 1400 ft/sec and a velocity of 1260 ft/sec at 75 yds. I then, with the help of some advanced kids, found the angle of the ricochet based upon the height of the tree stand and the distance to the deer. The anle of ricochette will be the same. Much like the angle you hit the side of pool table with will be the same angle the ball will take after ricochete. This angle was calculated to be 3.16 degrees. This is an extremely small angle and I didn't think that there would be any way that the bullet would hit the house. So we then determined how long the bullet could stay in the air given its velocity. Time of flight was given by its vertical velocity and the effect of gravity on it. Gravity was acting at 32.16 ft/sec. Anyway, the bullet has the capability to stay in the air for 4.3 more seconds. Long story short, the bullet had the ability to travel another 5,409 feet or roughly 1800 yards. I know tht there is some error and that it is highly unlikely for a bullet to travel that far and that there is always forces acting upon the bullet that were not calculated for. But just given the calculations there is a high likelyhood that if that bullet ricochetes, it will have enough velocity to hit the house. Before I did the calculations I would have taken the shot, now, no way man. Also, thanks for the scenario, my students loved it, but they thought that I had hit somebody's house.

[paceman]

One thing to remember is that the velocity of the bullet is not a constant 1260 feet/second. It will slow dramatically. I say no way it will travel over half a mile. However I would wait until the deer cleared the house.