Stand Stealers!

[EXTREME]

This conversation is getting way out of hand! I do not agree with some of the comments on this forum stating that it should be taken or it is trying to secure a spot on public land. In the area I hunt (Grand Rapids area), it is common practice to hunt on public land. It is also common practice to place stands, permanent and portable, to reserve spots. It doesn't mean that the spot is mine...it just lets people know that I am there..and hopefully the "ethical hunter" will hunt somewhere else. As far as the "should be stolen" theme. It has been there for a year, it should be stolen. Do you expect your permanent stand to be there year after year? It really is no different. Tearing it down would (in my simple mind) be a destruction of public property. All that I am trying to say is that it sucks having somthing taken from you. Whether or not I should have left it out there or not; it still sucks. I was going to get that stand and move it to another spot...OH MY GOD; I was going to leave it overnight and secure a different spot; all to myself!!! What a unethical thing to do.

[Bogsucker]

There is no "reserving" public land unless it's it's a designated public blind or such. To think some people have the audacity to assume they have the right to pre-empt the use of public property by placing a stand is just beyond my sense of reason and logic.

[Mark Christianson]

Extreme
There is no such thing as reserving spots on ANY public land. I think if your stand is there, its open for use for ANYBODY.
Regardless if you paid for the stand or not.

Again, I don't condone taking the darn thing.

[Bogsucker]

And it is certainly not unethical to hunt a public area that someone else has placed a stand upon. Now if a person was in the stand I'd certainly not disturb the area, I'd leave quietly. But come next weekend if they are not there I'd not hesitate to hunt the area, though I'd not place a stand adjacent to theirs. But to leave a stand and expect it to be there a long time later is not realistic. It may be ideological but not realistic.

[This message has been edited by Bogsucker (edited 08-25-2004).]

[EXTREME]

If someone wants to hunt my stand; that's fine with me. Just leave it as you found it. As far as the reserve point. I never, repeat never hunt near another stand...unless it is broken down or I know that it is hunted only in rifle season and I am bow hunting. If there is that many people around I look for another spot to hunt. I respect that that person has found the perfect spot for the area and I leave it alone. I would feel guilty putting a stand next to another one. Kind of like hitting on a woman at the bar even though you know she is married. I guess being an ethical and respectfull hunter is wrong.

[Bogsucker]

No leaving your stand on public property is.

[EXTREME]

What difference does it make to you? You will probably put one in the next tree over anyway!

[bigbucks]

I've been following this thread & you both are right to some extent (IMO). I don't really think it's realistic to expect someone who's hunting public land regularly to have to take their stand down each time. How are you supposed to go out for a morning hunt & hang a stand before light & be quiet enough to actually have any chance of shooting a deer that morning? In the same token it really isn't right to try to "lock up" a spot all bow season.

As far as gun season goes I'd rather somebody put a stand where they are planning to hunt so you don't go there to hunt & have 2-3 guys on top of each other. Some people do really stupid things though too. I had a friend who put his portable up before gun season, went to get in it opening morning & some other guy's sitting in his own portable like 6-8 feet below my friend's portable in the same tree. By that guy putting in the second stand he just screwed up both their mornings, what good did that do?

[EXTREME]

I agree. This is getting to be like the presidential race. Bogsucker and I both have our opionions and both are right to a certain extent. The point is that we both care about hunting alot; enough to where we would post(argue) about anything that we believe is true. Lets put away the daggers and concentrate on the upcoming season. I am getting pretty jacked to sit up in a stand that first evening....and reading all these posts really gets me in the mood. So, with this said....the stand that was stolen was a material item. There build more of them every day. Lets just kick butt this fall and fill the freezer with nature's own Adkin's diet PS sorry for any stabs; a guy can get worked up about this sort of thing!

[Mark Christianson]

I sure am glad I hunt private land. What a can of worms.

Extreme,
You know darn well you would not want someone hunting out of your stand. If you came out to hunt and someone was sitting there, you know an argument would take place.
No worries, I won't be stepping on your public land to hang a stand next to you.
This is the number one reason I won't hunt public lands. All the personal views on what is right or wrong. Nobody will ever agree totally, and it just ends up where this thread has gone.
I have seen posts on FM in the past about peoples "run-ins" with other deer hunters on public land, and it doesnt go to well in some cases.
I have given up on hunting public lands for ducks in a lot of cases, because of the inconsideration of others. Its not worth the headaches to me.
I'm done. I'll just read now.

[jlm]

Ex-
Hey, too bad about the stand! This is a major risk with using public property. One suggestion I have for you is to purchase a good climbing stand. You can go ahead of time and prepare your tree and in the morning or evening, you can backpack your stand in and climb up the tree quickly and quietly. I love my climber and I take it with me out of the woods everytime with ease. Check them out and good luck with the upcoming season!

[Bogsucker]

We have gotten off the issue here that you're mad because someone stole the stand that you left in the woods last year. To answer your original 3 questions.

1)Thieves.

2) Probably not safe to leave a stand there after season.

3) Never had a stand stolen as I don't leave them in the woods. Actually I rarely use them.

[viking_fan]

FM does not advise destroying property. You may repost your point but please tone it down!

[This message has been edited by jlm (edited 08-25-2004).]

[Bogsucker]

By the way permanent stands are illegal on national forests, must be removed within 1 week of end of season, and discouraged on state forests and in fact from page 128 of the MN regs "Personal property
must be removed from State Forest lands."

[This message has been edited by Bogsucker (edited 08-25-2004).]

[viking_fan]

How about this !!!
If you find a tree stand take it down and leave a note that if they want it back you are bringing it to the DNR office in the area.
My bet is the DNR would end up having alot of tree stands for sale because pepole dont want the fine to go with it.

[10 poyntr]

Dead minnow cather, I agree with you. Nobody "deserves" a stand to be stolen if it's left up. What I may "deserve" is someone else sitting in it opening morning. I'm fully aware when I put up at stand on public land that someone else may locate it and sit in it. FINE! Just don't STEAL it! I"ve also been hunting for 30 years and have NEVER put a stand up where someone will find it. I'm very confident in my location, don't blaze trails to it, stay away from logging roads, and don't advertise my location. But, again, if someone manages to find it and uses it, well too bad for me.I'll take the chance that the 99% of hunters will leave it alone. Yeah, there is low life out there looking for the easy way out and will hunt anywhere. Doesn't anyone like to scout anymore and find there little nook somewhere? I like the comparison to someone leaving their keys in their car and "deserving" to have it stolen! By who? People we look up to? NO, people with no care for their fellow man.

[ricqik]

As much I as like to hunt private land no land owner had ever said yes to me. I know why but don't ask me why.

Now this is only for public land:
Here's what I do every season since I hunt soely on public land. If I want a particular area, I'll be there 2hrs before shooting light or well early in the evening. 10-15min to get ready and packed whenI get there, 10-15min to get to the tree, 10-15min to set up and sit in stand and the last remaining time to sit quietly and let everything settle and calm down. I've said it before and I'll say it again, public land is a first come first serve basis. If anyone should show up at an area and find someone else already there please move on. You all know it takes time to set up a treestand in the mourning so plan to be there earlier. It's frustrating when another hunter shows up and see's you but still sets up their stand within 50-60yds. Same with those who set up their stand previous nights/days and leaves it there. You find the perfect area and planned to be there after a day or two and early in the mourning after you have settled and all is quiet, you see another hunter come and sits in his stand he hung the day before close to where you are, worse he's right where you expect the deer to come from. It's just plain wrong to hang your stand the night before or earlier. No matter how you enterprit it, you are reserving a spot and it's wrong. Kind of like if you show up at the lake and see someones fishing rod and reel laying next to the water and later they show up and said it's their spot.

[Bogsucker]

ricqik,

I agree 100%.

[deadminnowcatcher]

What about leaving a stand up on public land for the purpose of bear hunting. The stand would not be "Reserving" the spot because the spot is already reserved by the hunter placing a sign and registering the bait location. And then taking the stand down when you do not intend on hunting anymore for the season and you take your sign down

[wannafishto]

Couple years ago, dad and I were deer hunting on public land in the Bemidji area. we have hunted there for about 10 years now. After the DNR stated that no more permanent stands could be used on public lands, we invested in several ladder stands and placed them in the area we hunt. I was using one and had shot a deer and we were traking it when another hunter appeared and started yelling at us that we had interrupted his hunt and that he had been hunting there for 15 years and so on and so forth. He used alot of profanity and actually made the statement to my dad that "he should be careful as he may get shot"! We turned the guy in to the local PD. It turns out he is a local SCHOOL TEACHER and when the police spoke to him he claimed that I (female) had made threats to him also. The PD refused to file charges as they said it was my word against his, even tho dad was right there. My father is 73 years old, and I could not believe that this guy would actually threaten him! Anyway, the point is, we don't hunt that section of the woods anymore, but this same guy built a HUGE permanent stand right where I had the ladder placed that season. Not only did is he a poor example of a sportsman, but he clearly violates the law at every chance he gets.
Dad and I used to sit in unused perms if we came across one, but if the builder came by, we relinquished the stand to them, same as we would hope someone would do for us back when we had perms. But, if the person wants to sit in the stand, we have NO right to ask them to vacate. Any stand on public land, perm or portable, can be used by whoever gets there first. As far as taking them from the woods, we chain and lock our ladders to avoid that, but if someone gets there before us there is really nothing we can do except be disappointed. Most hunters will vacate if asked politely. And, I actually prefer to know who is also hunting in the area and where for safety reasons. I just wish everyone felt the same. CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? Let's not dampen the experience of a wonderful day in the woods by bringing the wrong attitudes out there with us, let's swap stories instead!

[10 poyntr]

Why ANYONE would EVER want to hunt in someone elses treestand is beyond me. Again the 99.9% of hunters in this forum probably wouldn't. Who does not like to scout out an area to find his OWN little niche? If you happen to see a stand in a tree and it bothers you so bad that someone doesn't take it down, call the authorities and let them deal with it! I noticed someone saying this topic is getting way out of hand. NONSENSE! If this is what we're passionate about, so be it! I get along with ALL hunters I've come across in more than 30 years. This sport is so "DEER" to us, we love to talk about it.

[BLACKJACK]

This post has gone on beyond the original 'what do you think about stand stealers' but thats alright, as 10pointer points out, people posting here are passionate about deer and deer hunting.

What I don't like about stands on public property, whether they're permanent or portable stands, once you place them before the season, you're reserving that spot for yourself. People justify that by saying "I scouted out and found that spot". How about the guy that found that spot before or after you? By placing a stand there, you saying that spot is yours.

Several years ago, a week before opening day, I found a great spot in a funnel, I even picked out which tree I was going to sit beside. Was there bright and early, set up my chair, put on my heavy clothes and sit down anticipating the hunt. Pretty soon here comes a flashlight bobbing thru the woods. I get out my flashlight and start flashing it around to let him know that I'm there. He keeps on coming and starts getting into a permanent stand less than 40 yards away!!! When I yelled what the heck are you doing, hes says "I have a stand here". That stand was not there when I scouted seven days before!!!! So at prime time I'm stomping off trying to find a different spot. Needless to say, neither one of us fired a shot that morning. Now he figures that spot is his forever. Is that the way it should be? On public land that belongs to all of us? NOT!!!

I'll have to admit, I had a real hard time resisting the impulse to go back and trash out that stand!!!!

I don't understand the argument that "if you find a stand, anybody can hunt on it, so its ok to build the stand". Who wants to have a confrontation in the woods during deer hunting - something you love to do - with an armed hunter who thinks you're squatting on his stand? 98% of the time its not going to happen and thats what the stand builders are counting on. Does that make it ok to build stands on public land? NO!

[This message has been edited by BLACKJACK (edited 08-27-2004).]

[bigbucks]

Reading all of this just reconfirms that I hope I never have to hunt opening morning of firearms season especially, on public land. I would think if you're bowhunting & you hunt a spot in the evening & come right back the next morning, there certainly wouldn't be anything wrong with leaving your stand there over night, just come plenty early.

Sounds to me lile you almost need to leave a note on a tree to say when you plan to hunt there, whether you put up a stand or not, or you risk coming in & finding someone else setup near by. If nobody puts up a stand until they get there you could easily have 3-4... people bump into each other all thinking they were the only ones planning to hunt that spot.

It doesn't sounds to me like there's no easy answer to how to guarantee hunting public land won't be a fiasco. Yuck!!

[echotrail]

We (4 of us) had similar experiences with too many hunter and perm. tree stands on public lands years ago. We switched to hunting the second week (Orr area) and would not consider hunting 1st week again. I know some of you hunt shorter zones that don't afford the option and to you I wish the best. Hunt safe!

[dustin85]

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[This message has been edited by dustin85 (edited 08-29-2004).]

[Ben1022]

A few comments after reading four pages of this topic...I have had stands stolen on both private and public places. Apparently someone rationalized the taking of them one way or another. If I didn't buy it, it's not mine. Period. If someone wants to use my stand, just ask permission to use the stand or show some courtesy. Have some tact. I cannot fathom putting up and taking down a stand every day for the sake of being in the realm of politically correct. I can guarantee that doing that is going to lead to near zero success and any derrived from it would be luck. Deer are a little sharper than to permit constant noise, regardless of how quiet you are to permit a stand going up and down. Geez, think about it for a while. My stomach absolutely turns thinking about crawling up in someone elses stand, be it private, public or what ever the land status is. Yeah, I've put up a stand on public land and left it for the duration of the season, unless I'm done w/the area. If some other loser wants to use it and I show up; that is for him to rationalize and I'll use my head and find some way to make a hunt happen. I'm not going to lower my self to use someone elses, though.
So, I live by the question..."is it my stand or not"? If not, I cinch up my pants and move on.

[kpj5br]

I've been watching this post for days and keeping my mouth shut, but I think a serious point that needs to be made has not been made yet (point 1 is just my opinion, point 2 is the point I haven't seen made yet).

1. When it comes to tree stands, be it ladder or attached, or any other, I personally think it is morally and ethically fine for a hunter to place one and leave it for the season, and everyone else should leave it alone, or at the very least, use it when it is clear the hunter is not using it that day, and leave it be. That is my moral/ethical opinion, however it is not the law, as has been said here many times. See point 2:

2) Why is it that the law says you don't "own" stands/blinds left unattended on public property? I have a response there as well, and I think the spirit of the law is a good one: For many years, use of public land turned very sour when it came to "stands", which turned into "shacks", which turned into mini-houses, permanent structures, and groups of hunters claiming it as "their land". And not the "shack", the surrounding 40 acres of "public" land!

So the legislature along with the DNR has enough of it (and the complaints that go along with it), and they outright say nothing at all.

Deer hunting in Minnesota is a very emotional subject, more so than I have seen anywhere else (except maybe Wisconsin), if we took the emotion out of it, I don't think these topics would turn into such heated debates.

[ricqik]

All this preaching about being ethical and law abiding citizens in other threads and yet some still break the law and boldly admits it on here. While you at it why not bring 2 or maybe 3 extra gun along with your bow and a crossbow too. It's in the regulation, follow it. I don't like the idea of open and closed fishing season, but it's the law and I have to follow it.

[This message has been edited by ricqik (edited 08-30-2004).]

[lakevet]

Sorry if this is a bit long. Since the 1880's my family has deer hunted in Minnesota. Alot has changed over that time. Growing up I got in on a taste of the way hunting had been for decades. We had "permanent" stands on the farms and adjacent public lands. Many of these stands had been rebuilt countless times as they had been used by many generations of my family. To this day I can take you to trees that my great grandfathers shot deer out of over 100 years ago. These locations had been found as the result of much experience over the years. When my family would log these areas, these special trees would be left, even though it was lost income to do so.When I first started hunting (1970's), if I saw someone in the woods, even on public land, I knew who they were and usually they were a relative. People from the cities hung close to their cabins and we didn't see them farther back. The very few we did see we knew because they had hunted specific stands for 20 or more years. We respected them because they were hunters who knew the woods and worked for their deer. Permanent stands were actually trees with a branch that was easy to stand on or built with nails and hardwood branches from the area. No apartments in the sky. We felt we "owned" the public land as the family had logged (paying the county money for stumpage) and hunted it since white man settled that area, white man being us. It was a wonderful time and I was blessed to be able to experience it. So when people from urban and suburban areas started showing up in "our stands" rather than scouting and building their own stands we were mad. We felt they were lazy thieves.They ruined our traditional way of hunting which was making drives. They would not talk to you, just give you a blank stare. They would hear us start a drive and walk / 4 wheel into the line of our standers and shoot deer out of our drives. One time that it happened, they shot a buck. My cousin who had tracked the buck through the drive, only to find a guy from the cities had shot it after posting in front of one of our standers, had the guy wave the knife in his face while the knife holder yelled that it was public land ,etc. I was right there when it happened. We walked away and reported it. Another time I was driving deer and heard shooting from one of "our" stand locations. 2 bucks had gone by the stander. However, it was someone who didn't know the area and walked in looking for someone's stand to get into. When I got close he yelled at me to "get the **** out of here as this is my stand". I calmly told him that my cousin and I had just rebuilt that stand 2 weeks ago, and if he would climb down and look under the platform he was standing on he would see our initials. Well that cooled him some but he still said he had every right to be in that stand. Legally he did. He was raised with a different ethic than me but the law is the law. I was going to continue driving and told him so and as such didn't need the stand. Well, we talked alittle more and it turns out I had chased 2 bucks by him. He shot at a little one then a big one came and he shot at that. I wished him good luck after asking him to maybe think more about the other guy when hunting. I started into the woods and after 20 yds found a blood trail. Another 60 yds and I was standing over a 13 pt buck bigger than anything I have shot to this day. It was dead. To be honest if it had twitched I would have shot it and kept it. But it didn't. So I went back to the guy. He was down on the ground looking for the blood trail of the other buck. He couldn't find it. I showed him where that blood trail started. Then I took him to the blood trail of the bigger buck. When I showed him his buck, he finally got off his high horse and said thanks. He also said he had come into the woods with the purpose of finding someone's stand to use. I told him not using other peoples stands would be thanks enough and to be sure and get the other buck. He said he would. I never saw him again and a cousin found the dead second buck (a spike) 40 yds from were the blood trail started. It was 2 days later. The guy never got the other buck. I was 18 at the time and the guy was in his 40's. I should have gotten ID on him and reported him. The rifle season kept getting worse on public land so we removed our permanent stands and went with portables that we put up and take down each drive or sit. We do the same on our farms. That was 15 years ago. Extra work but worth it. For the young and older hunters who can't put up the stands others go with to set them up. We have fewer hunters on the public, less tresspass on our farms, and they get less deer as they have to "do it on their own" as we are no longer "guiding" for them. So guys and gals, I am asking you to do the same. Don't use other peoples stands even if legal, don't use permanent stands on public land, do the extra work to put up and take down your portables, get info and report violations, and above all keep your cool and be polite. Remember, we are all in this together.Thanks for listening to my 2 cents.

Be sure to take a kid hunting!

lakevet

[BLACKJACK]

Interesting post lakevet!

As someone else has said, deer hunting brings out the passion in people, and also the craziness and rudeness and classlessness that we're all trying to escape from during our regular everyday lives. Too many hunters on a limited number of spots doesn't help. And even if you think that you've walked way back in the bush and found a spot that nobody else will find, eventually someone will, or have already. We just have to be courteous and do onto others as we want them to do to us.