Lanterns = Crappies

[Steve Foss]

Wade, AKA W.K. Sparrow:

I, for one, value your perspective. Your posts are the first time that I have seen a county attorney weight in on topics that concern all anglers.

There's a lot of "well, I think this" or "well, I think that," or "well, the regs say this" on this site.

But we all know that the law is an ongoing and fluid system. Legislators write them, COs cite them, prosecutors prosecute them, judges/juries decide them, and appeal judges decide them again. It never ends, and what is legal this year (or minute) might not be legal the next. As someone who makes his living based on the meaning of words, I can take those regs apart and find ambiguities left and right, loopeholes I could drive a HUMMR through.

If the COs let me, that is. COs have some autonomy. So do prosecutors. It's hard to know as an angler on any given day how a CO will respond to a given situation, and the same goes for prosecutors. The COs and prosecutors I have known are human beings (DUH!), not machines, and each interprets the law in his/her own way, not to mention that some days are better than others, just like for all the rest of the human population.

Wade, please keep posting, and don't let the peanut gallery put you off. Well, being a prosecutor, I doubt you will be deterred by simple rhetoric.

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"Worry less, fish more."
Steve Foss
[email protected]

[LABS4ME]

Wade...off the subject, how did you do on Red for your 1st visit? I know you didn't have the best weather. You can e-mail me if you want. Ken

[LABS4ME]

Sorry Wade, I just found your post about your weekend....Ken

[Guest]

looperhunter did something strike a cord? I along with true sportsmen don't leave trash on the lake, I pick it up when I see it. This is the typical attitude from the "new way of thinking about fishing", oh don't eat that fish you will hurt it when you kill it, or I am a real man I just catch the fish be impaling a hook into thier mouth and then let him go so I can do it again.
I never stated that I am against people who c/r fish, I said I am against people who slander somebody just because they want to actually eat the fish they catch, these are probally the same jerks that shoot wildlife just for the fun of it and have no plans of eating it.

[muskybuck]

I just have to get this out. I have been reading this board for a couple years now but I am very leary about posting things I think because of the amount of people who just rip the H... out of you for expressing your ideas. I have even read some posts about people who want to bring guns out on the ice because of other rude people. Last year I quit reading this board for many months because I was so sick of the rude comments. What I really wanted to get out is this. Last week end I found a package of crappies in the freezer dated Dec, 2000. It was absolutely delicious. It was frozen in a zip lock covered with water. There was no freezer burn. If you think fish in the freezer is no good after a couple weeks you are not doing it right. No fish that I put in the freezer gets thrown away. I believe that it is not good to brag about releasing all the fish you catch. I think that just gives fuel to the people who want to ban hunting and fishing because it really does amount to basically harassing the fish for your enjoyment. I fish for meat. Very seldom do I limit out on anything. If I were lucky enough to catch ten crappies I would consider that a great day of fishing, anywhere, anytime. If I do, I like to keep some in the freezer so I can have a meal of fish a few months later when I catch nothing. Which happens way too often. Because I am fishing for meat I do not keep a walleye over twenty inches because it does not taste very good. And the really big ones are for reproduction (spawning) or mounting, not meat. As far as I am concerned crappies and sunnies taste much better than walleyes anyway. Go ahead and rip me, but thats the way it is and I am sure I am not alone in this thinking.

[tightlines]

The original question/comment was ,does using a light to attract crappies and baitfish work and is it legal? Obviously it works quite well or the state would not have made it illegal. It is pretty obvious what we are doing with our lanterns above the ice. When we are putting it in a hole in the ice with the mantel below the surface, its cheating. To me there is no gray area here. Come on, lets get real here.If ya really need to "shine em in" go to the market and buy your fish. It just piss's me off when folks try to bend the regs to catch a few extra fish.

[This message has been edited by tightlines (edited 03-05-2003).]

[LABS4ME]

I don't know if my post started this whole "I don't think you should keep your limit" posts. Everyone is entitled to a limit if they choose. I've kept several limits from the lake, but I've NEVER exceeded my posession limit. If I keep a limit I choose to share my fish. Does this make me higher than thou? Nope! It's what I choose to do! I haven't ripped anyone for keeping a limit, nor will I. If you only get up once in a while, I don't blame you for wanting to put a bag of those delicious fish in the freezer. I do have a problem with all the posts from guys who catch a limit 1 night and go out and do the same the next night or weekend etc. etc. How many of them have multiple limits in the freezer? Sad! What I was trying to imply on my post was to go out and fish, have fun, and follow the law, that is the minimum we as sportsman owe to each other and to our resources. As I stated before don't worry about catching a limit, even if you only catch a few, you will have a great meal!

Good Luck! Rip some Lips!

Hi,...My name is Ken...and I'm an IBOT

[united jigsticker]

AMEN to that LABS4ME!

[This message has been edited by united jigsticker (edited 03-06-2003).]

[Guest]

Very good post Sparky 2!

[Guest]

thanks for the support guys, I don't post alot or use this site as a chat room, but I just felt something had to be said to protect the good old fashion fisherman values.

[jlm]

Just a thought, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy the fish at the market rather than planning a trip to the lake. That is directed to the guys who fish for meat only. I for one enjoy the catch more than the actual meal. Don't get me wrong, I love fish, but, I am more in it for the relaxation, quietness, to be around friends and family, and making new friends! Consequently, I have a lot of support and respect for those who take less than there limit. As they say, they will be bigger next year or they live to fight another day! If the Red gets fished out, none of us will continue to enjoy those slabs to the degree that we do now! People come to the Red from all over the world to enjoy the abundance of the catch and the great quality of fish to be caught. This is my perspective. So, my view of lanterns on the lake for attracting fish is a no no. I would never hesitate to tell you that to if you are breaking the law and the moral code of the fisherman. To those of you that abide by the rules, great, I have the utmost respect for you and will share a beer with you anytime. For those of you who continue to cheat, I hope you get a flat tire on the way to Red Lake or any other destination.

[Guest]

jlm, settle down buddy. Don't be wishing anything on fellow fisherman. I don't know why we keep getting back to how many fish someone takes. This post is about the lanterns, now I want somebody to anwer the question. Is it illegal or not? And if so then why is not illegal to shovel off a spot on the ice place a lantern there and have it illuminate light. We keep going round and round about this and some think that it's cheating, some think that a person is going to take more fish ect. ect. ect.. What it comes down to is that nobody can give anybody a straight answer on this issue.

[Guest]

suggesting that people who enjoy to eat alot of fish it would be cheaper to just go to the market is only adding fuel to the fire and dividing fishermen. If you only want to drink beer and socialize then why not just go to a bar then? If its family time your after then go on a picnic, you don't have to go to the lake. We have enough do-gooder groups and animal rights activists after us all as it is. The simple point is we all pay full price for a fishing licence which entitles us to a certain daily limit of each fish, and we should be able to take our daily limit if we are lucky enough to get them when and if we please(not exceeding the max possesion limit of course). If I want to catch my limit every weekend and eat fish 4 times a week so be it, if you don't want to; keep your oponions to yourself. Personally I don't really care, if you throw em back thats just more for the rest of us and if you keep your catch you certainly have that right, just like the rest of us if we choose so.

[Guest]

"When in dought", ................
We all know the rest of the story, "I think"
Good fishing all!

[Surface Tension]

CLAMP ON
If you shovel snow off the ice to attract fish and you know its illegal to use light to attract fish then the answer is yes. Would a CO cite you for it? probably not but moraly you know your doing something illegal.

We face questions like this every day.

The answer lies within you.

Heres a quote to live by"

"A particular virtue in wildlife ethics is that the hunter ordinarily has no gallery to applaud or disapprove of the conduct, whatever the acts, they are dictated by their own conscience, rather than that of onlookers."
Aldo Leopold
CLAMP OFF

[jlm]

If you do not live close to the lake it would be cheaper! In my experience anyway! Sorry, never would want to devide fisherman! I never said anything about those who keep limits, I am ok with that to, I just have a lot of respect for those who try to conserve the great fishing on the Red! Not sure if you (sparky2) were directing the limit thing to me or not but if you were I am not sure why. One other point, those who cheat in my opinion are not of the same thread of those who are ethical. Ok, to the question. Yes it is illegal to use light to attract fish. Anything below the surface of the ice is illegal and anything above the ice that is intended to attract fish is illegal! I don't thing using a lantern above the ice is a problem. If you cart in a 10 million candle watt light, it might be! Good luck fellas and get the big one!

[bigV]

Yes it is illegal to use artificial light with intent to attract fish- alright already......
The gray area is in the fact the CO can look at how your operating your lantern and make a case for his or her own interpetation as to what you may be intending to do. What the REAL intent of yours happens to be could turn out to be irrelevant.

A good way to decrease the catch might be to inact law not allowing people to move once they are set up on the ice? Then there would be lots more time to socialize and drink if your fishing dead water!!!
God I hope that doesn't happen-----

[LABS4ME]

Good post S.T. I guess that was the point I was trying to make earier...you just put it more eloquently. I think it has been answered "YES" it is illegal. You have a prosecutor saying he would/will prosecute this case. That to me says it is an illegal act. You ARE using an artificial light source to attract fish...period! Your intent is proven, not the outcome of the case. You are correct Pro-v, you may win the case, but at what cost? If you want the end all answer e-mail the DNR headquarters and put the question forth, after recieving the answer feel free to post it here. I think this thread has been hammered on enough....Let's get back to fishin'...see everyone up there! Ken

[Guest]

jlm
it was not directly at you, just a blanket statement. No harm , no foul.. Good fishing everybody

[Guest]

Again, nice post Sparky2. I like that.

Surface tension, thank you for your input your the only one that stepped up. All I wanted is someone to just come out and say it. No, you will not get sighted for it. Now its no longer a big deal. Is it illegal, maybe, maybe not? Does anybody know? Does it help catch fish? YES. Do people always try and better themselves in the fishing world? YES. It's just like if you had a chance to fish out of a boat with a graph or without a graph, which one would you chose? (I know, the one that is not illegal). You would chose the boat with the graph. Why? Because you would catch more fish! Just like with a lantern, you catch more fish. But if nobody has ever been sighted or nobody has ever lost anything, is it illegal? I just feel that it is legal otherwise others and myself would have been sighted for this. Right? Right...

[wh1stler]

lundprov-

If you want to the take the chance--go ahead. It seems like nobody is going to convince you otherwise.

wh1stler

[This message has been edited by wh1stler (edited 03-05-2003).]

[PUTZ]

Sure just when I was going to bring in A
bank of lights from the Metrodome.
Guess I will have to put them back
PUTZ

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If you ask I might let you touch the green hornet. I.B.O.T.#03

[Hastings gal]

Bryce could have called in the spacecraft for all of us! Hee Hee.

[jlm]

I know people who have been ticketed for this because they put the lantern below the ice in an auger hole. The funny part is that all those around him with lanterns on the ice were left alone. Co's are people to and make interpretations. Blatant disregard will result in a ticket for sure. I think he was fined $85 if I remember right. I would never be concerned about the light on top the ice! If I get ticketed for that, I would certainly fight that in court. I don't think most CO's would waste there time with that when they have bigger and better things to look after! Like these guys who love to take things from your fish house! Wish they would bring them back when they were done!

[juggs]

Jigsticker, I do believe that limits are not the only way to manage the harvest but I don't see the connection between snagging fish or using nets and using a light to attract them. Isn't what we call fishing, by definition, taking them on a hook and line in the mouth by "fooling" them? The fish still has to be lured into being caught and we all know that fish don't feed all the time. Just because they can be brought to us doesn't mean they can be caught. How many times do you mark fish on your sonar but are frustrated to go home empty handed? I do find it interesting that a lot of other states don't ban the use of lights but Minnesota does. Who wouldn't agree that catching more fish enhances anyone's trip to the water? I'm not going to argue that we should find ways to tip-toe around the law because the law should be obeyed, period. I just question whether that particluar law is consistent with other laws that govern other methods that increase our success.

[Guest]

Excellent post juggs. We can do a array or things to enhance our fishing experience, but if they are not biting you won't get a thing.

[Bryce]

What's that HastingsGal... beam them up and lose all the entertainment. I'm more I'm not sure what it's all about though. Me... I'm with NINETOES. Putting dimmers on the lights in my house for next year.

[united jigsticker]

My point was it's a game of odds.

Using a net INCREASES your odds and is deemed illegal.

Snagging fish when they aren't feeding INCREASES your odds, and is deemed illegal.

Using a light to attract fish when they're not there rather then searching for them INCREASES your odds and is also deemed illegal.

Nobody here is preaching about striving to be the "model angler". Nobody here thinks they are better then anyone else.

The ONLY point here is to abide by the law, and was best said "When in doubt....."

Gray area is just that. Gray area. The meaning of "Gray area" is that the subject could go either way.

If I think something could go against me, I believe it is best to just leave it be. Too many times an explanation has done no good. The CO, Judge, angry fellow angler, will believe whatever they think, make their own opinions, and do what they want with the issue, just as the angler, no matter what the law states, can do as he/she pleases as long as they don't get caught.

So, with that said, Good fishing to all, I'm done with this subject.

Fish On! Fish Off! ::Guzzle::

[This message has been edited by united jigsticker (edited 03-05-2003).]

[LABS4ME]

Hey Ninetoes...As long as the disco ball is "above the waterline" I guess I'm alright! Gotta go now, making a stick to hang it on from the boat, it'll be "above the waterline". You goin' up this weekend? Give me a call! Ken

[Guest]

Good to see the replies getting back to the original question. My Dad tought me if I thought it was wrong, don't do it. It was his right and it was a lot better than my left. If as much energy was used trying to locate fish as was discussed about this law, no crappie,wlleye,northern,sunny or perch would be safe in minnesota or else where.

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who left the line on the floor