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Netting on Red


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Where oh where in the wide world of sports does it state that a indian has to be restricted to living on a reservation? By law,and constitution, are not the natives of this great country garanteed the same rights to life liberty and the persuit of happiness just as any other american? To compare the native population to jews and the "whiteman" to nazi? get your head fixed. If there is to be a comparison to any of the massive loss of life... The conflicts with the indian "nations" would be better served to be compared to a civil war or a revolution. The intent was not to eliminate a race, but to instill a belief and solidfy a nation. Is what happened here 150 years ago that much different than what is happening in places like the middle east and africa today, or what happened in russia when communism came, or the french revolution. Or even our own civil war in the 1860's?

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This issue (netting) has been around and around and discussed again and again. The best post I have seen on this forum concerning this is the post by Mixed Dna on 03-05-02. I'ld like to meet him/her someday. He/She accepts things and also trys to make things better rather then complaining.

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Waskish Minnow Station
218-647-8652

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Here is the post Kelly is referring to by Mixed DNA:

I am a member of the Red Lake Nation. I have been fishing URL for many years now. THe fishing on Lower Red Lake is supposed to be closed. The members of the res can fish the lake with lines and hooks only. Anyone caught fishing with a net or keeping walleyes have the same penalties as a non-member fishing the lower lake. For this reason, many members choose to fish URL. We have to buy a MN Fishing license and follow the same rules as everyone else. Many members welcome the closing of the lake. We like to see the walleye population regenerated and we support the new rules. Some of you might not know this but the members cannot use power motors on lower red. We have the same issues as others when it comes to a few bad seeds spoiling the crops for everyone. Many of my family and freinds only fish the lower lake in search of the large perch. Belief it or not many of the people I know release the crappies they catch. They are only interested in the meat of the perch.
Unfortunately, I have also heard of members taking fish illegally from the lake. THe tribal coucil, MN DNR and in some case the FBI try to deal with these individuals as the rumors spread across the res. THe major problem in catching the poachers is the size of the lake. It is very difficult to police such a large lake. Fortunately, there are enough members who support the regulations that many of the poachers are caught and dealt with by the authorities.
I know that the anamosities and stereotypes about the indians will never change. And there are some indians who feed the fire to keep these anamosities alive. Maybe someday the lake will be open to all and we will all be able to enjoy the wonderful fishing we've experienced on URL utilizing the entire lake.

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I might be a little late with this post but I just don't know how you (FOG) can compare a reservation to concentration camp.
A reservation they can come and go as freely as they want, they can get a job if they wish to , they are not forced to live there and they have food readily available to them.
concentration camps ,to my knowledge,did not offer any of that and the people had no other choices.
I know this is a very heated topic but I really don't think anyone is going to change history. In the end nobody wins everyone loses.


Just my thoughts
Thank you for listning
JAR JAR

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Yes the White Man screwed the Native Ameriacans, BUT THAT WAS OVER A CENTURY AGO!!!! Time to get over it!!!! Move on. Get on with the business of living!!!

Practice their cultural events!! Give me a break!! Get out the torches and the birch bark canoes and leave the spot lights, boats and motor at home. What the hell does netting and selling fish have to with practicing a culture that didn't have markets at that time???

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I haven't a clue on how you get off stating that I'm back peddling. My stance is pretty firm that we're screwing the natives over and if you think it ended a 100 years ago, get a clue. Go ahead and remain ignorant, its your call. As for those of us who strive for equality, its always going to be an uphill battle because of ignorant jackholes as such.

Fish On!

Stephen

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seems to me i heard this same noise coming from the back of my mini van just earlier today.kids squabling. you just put up with it for so long, then WHAM! they're all grounded til they can play nice. noses to the wall boys!

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Hey FOGS! Us Norwegians don't like being called names and poked fun at either, but we learn to deal with it, right?

As a side note, I find it simply incredible that you are the only one who knows anything around here. grin.gif

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Hey FOGGY , what exactly is a "jackhole"?

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... Just stirrin the pot...

[This message has been edited by Bigtoes (edited 08-30-2002).]

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Well FOG let's see, we give them a monthly living expense, we build them homes, we build them roads, we let them runs casinos, we help them in every way we can. And this is screwing them. Give me a break!!!

Since the dawn of mankind it has been divide and conquer. In any other society at that time they would have been put into slavery and or slaughtered.

I also have some very good friends that are Native American, so I am not a racist. And yes, they do know that I believe that way, and to a certain extent so do they.


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I appreciate everyones thoughts and opinions on this subject matter. My reference to the reservations being like concentration camps is that when they were first initiated, the natives didn't have a choice. Either you abided by the white man and moved to the res or you were killed. I didn't say the were an exact comparison but that they were the same in many respects. The natives can obviously come and go as they wish now, however, that's not why the U.S. originally came up with reservations. Their intent was to confine the natives. Thankfully, as the world of prejudisms lessen, equality becomes more apparent. Some of us are more concerned just about themselves rather than the U.S. as a melting pot. Its not just about me and my rights but rather everyones rights. It concerns me that so many people find this topic to be racially motivated and not about whats just due to the natives. If our forefathers signed a pact with the natives then we should live by that document. I'm just trying to show the other side of the story, not to convince or persuade you to give up what you believe in but to educate so that you better understand the natives. Perhaps this will give you some insight and make you think twice about what you're fighting for. And by the way, the word Indian isn't a proper name for a Native American (Indian=India). Any native reading this post would probably agree. Its like calling a black man a negro. Get with the times people so you don't look so dang stupid; change is good.

Fish On!

Stephen

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FOGS , nice back peddling! You make a statement on more than one occasion then back peddle. Your political correctness finally spills over! For types as your self Im sure its pretty hard to contain. You are fairly presumptuous to tell everyone here that your here to "educate" us! HA HA HA HA HA!!! And what exactly quailifies you to educate anyone ? Remember these words "all men are created equal"

------------------
... Just stirrin the pot...

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WOW!!! You don't read the site for a week and look at the whilrwind that got stirred up!

I think everyone needs to think in terms of "ours" not mine and theirs...remember the lakes are connected so unfortunately the actions of the Indians (and FOGS I will use this term as the Indians call themselves that ((see mixed DNA's message)) and I do have some Chippewa blood in me although not enough to be "entitled".) do impact the whole lake and the resources. If the whole waters were land locked and they wanted to diminish the fishery and it only affected their members, so be it. I have looked into this subject of netting, and the Walleye collapse, and the blame dosen't solely fall on the Indians. Greed is within all races of man and I guarantee you for years people on URL would take out limits of fish in the morning and go out and get another in the eve and to top it off buy fish from the Indians on the way home. My father-in-law even admits to some of this. When there is a bonanza of a natural resource we all (regardless of race) look to it as "never ending" (logging at the turn of the century, gold mines, cod fishing in the North Atlantic and now the crappies on URL) and we all want our share and if we "cheat" a little "it won't hurt anything"...but multiply that by all the cheaters X all the times they do it X all the consecutive years and you start to deal with the problem. Look at Rogers web-site and watch how many times a picture of the same guy comes up catching limits of crappies. You think they are legal? I don't know how you get rid of that many fish. So to get back on the subject are the Indians solely to blame? No way! but the additional pressure they put on the resource through illicit nets and the reduction of mesh size to net perch were the brunt of the final collapse. I feel they should be allowed to continue their culture but I feel our forefathers intentions were not for them to be able to set up a commercial fish processing plant and sell fish. The treaties rights are twisted around enough so as to allow them to just about do as they please, and in this era of political correctness no one will ever dare stand up to it, especially if you're in polotics. (which brings up my one major bone of contention...Why are the members of another "nation" (the Indian) allowed to vote for our elected officials but we cnnot vote for theirs? Hence the problem of a nation in a nation). If they are to continue this practice of netting they should have to report their catch to the state to monitor their catch. They have never been required to do this in the past!

Also FOGS you state that "our" treatment of the Indians in the past was appalling. Does this include me? as I am only second generation American on my fathers side or am I exempted? Funny thing race...some are downtrodden and picked on and given only the basic chances to get started but they manage to pick themselves up and become integrated, successful memebers of society. (re: the Hmong's in my area, and all the Latino's that are willing to work there tails off to make it in our society). Remember respect is not given...it's earned!

The Indians may not have been treated the same as the "white" people 150 years ago, but at least they did not have to flee a country as my grandfather did...I can't think of another country that made provisions for "the native population" like the Americans did! Was it perfect? Probably not...We will probably ever know the absolute truth to what it was like as this land was being settled...probably not. Believe me as stories and accounts are being recorded and passed down the details will be "adjusted" so as to "spin" it to fit what the author wants. The liberal bleeding hearts will say how appalling it was and the supremicist will say how wonderful they were treated by giving them this or that. The truth lies somewhere in between. I do know that with hard work and education that every member of this nation has the ability to succeed. I'm not saying racism no longer exists and I'm not saying it is going to be as easy for an Indian to walk off the Res. and get the same opportunties as we white people but it is possible with hard work and effort! All races have felt the same dilemas, and right now, the latest would be the Somali's, but you see them every day driving Taxi's, working in stores etc. to get their kids an opportunity to make it in this Nation.

So in closing let's hope that we all have learned from our past mistakes. Let's respect the lake and it's opportunities and more importantly let's RESPECT EACH OTHER!

Good Luck! Rip some Lips!

Ken

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Reading "LABS4ME" little addition to this long winded topic reminds me of that big old plane diving down and dropping fire retardant on the big ugly fire below. Lets just all get along and work together and learn from past mistakes. We only live on this planet once(as far as I know) so lets not waste time fighting about 100 years ago. The lake is in great shape and is getting better every year from what I have seen. So it appears something good is happening!?

mean people suck (of any color)
So go out of your way to be nice to someone!!

crappie getter

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I just took some time to read the entire topic. WOW! A whole lot of opinions and information in there. I think Labs4me said it best.

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As long as we are in a sort of spiritual and compassionate mood, I was thinking a short eulogy would be in order:


Dear Lord:

Thank you for helping us put aside our differences (at least for the time being) and lay this issue to rest because we have so much to be thankful for, and so little time to do it in.
Grant us sharp hooks and strong lines, and very little trouble with our outboards.
Give us the strength and perserverence to drive 500 miles for a weekend fishing trip.
Deliver us from evil and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
Forever and ever.

Amen.

smile.gif

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  • 4 weeks later...

To all you people that love the red lake area so much. I like to fish probbably more than most people in this state, but what I can't understand is why some of the idiots that go up that way (primairly 612ers)is what I like to call them anyway seem so intent on taking home their limits and then some. I went up there last year after being away from home for several years as I was in the navy and I listen to people bitch and moan all day as they haden't caught their limit yet.


As for the spearing and netting issue. I am all for it, just as long as they do it like their ancestors did. No one forced them to live like they do in this day and age, and by the way I wish the gov would give me(What was written here was out of line. I usually stay out of this but the words I deleted couldn't stay on the forum. kelly-p)

[This message has been edited by kelly-p (edited 10-01-2002).]

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I though all the mud slinging was done!? Is a 651er the same as a 612er??? I like to drink too!!! I practice catch and release!! Pretty stange huh!

crappie getter.

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