IT'S THE LAW!

[graffitigreg]

Often a question about the fish and game laws pops up on this site. I think most of us would like to get a real interpretation of the laws from the DNR. I think most of us would use the information wisely. Most of us want to know the rules so we can play fair.

Usually the forum posters sorta muddle around and come up with one or several interpretations. Often someone will quote chapter and verse from the regulations but and all too often we get, "Depends on the mood of the Conservation Officer".

What I'm wondering, and the reason for my post is this: Would the moderators of this great website please contact the DNR headquarters and find us someone there that would take the questions we generate and give us a reasoned explanation of the law so these questions can be a learning experience? What a great way for the DNR to educate us and help us be better sportspersons.

How about it?

[This message has been edited by graffitigreg (edited 04-28-2002).]

[graffitigreg]

OOPS! OOPS! OOPS! I never figured you'd think I was asking all these questions for myself. Some of the questions I used in my example have pretty evident answers. But regardless of how evident they are to me - the questions do arise on the forum.

What I was trying to encourage was somehow providing folks with the best possible answer. If the DNR comes on the forum and in response says, "According to section 8, paragraph 3, subsection 1a: "Intentionally gaffing a fish during a season closed to their taking is a misdemeanor punishable by blah bla balh" then those that are trying to learn what the rules are will have a honest to god answer.

NINETOE, I'll accept the challenge. I'll approach the DNR with the idea and see how they respond. I just don't want a bunch of guys to mug me the next time I set foot in West Wind because on the new forum they found out fishing with dynamite is illegal.

[This message has been edited by graffitigreg (edited 04-28-2002).]

[metro 1]

If I ever need a clarification on the laws or any out door question concerning MN DNR just ask them .e-mail @ [email protected] I think we all know what's right and what's wrong , but any questions ask them . Metro

[Guest]

graffitigreg

Call your local CO. Ask he or she a direct question and I am sure they will grant you a direct answer.

I am very familiar with these regulations, I have to be, and it is my livelihood at stake if I am not.

When I have a question or if I am in need of a clarification on an interpretation they are eager to help. They do not hesitate or attempt to and side step nothing, they will tell you.

Give them a call, no need for dramatics.

Just ask and you shall receive.

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Backwater Eddy.......><,sUMo,>

Backwater Guiding
Ed Carlson
(701)-281-2300

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[Guest]

Backwater Eddy,

Think about the confusion one might have about intentionally fishing for a certain species during the closed season. "I'm talking about the Crappies on Red". I've fished for them with the biggest fattest Shiners I could get my hands on in the winter. In the summer I've trolled Rappalas for them. Any other lake I don't think you could say you were fishing for Crappies but the Crapodiles on Red are a different story.

Good luck

Ukes

[NINETOE]

Greg, I hear by nominate you to do it! So as soon as you have all the answers post them here!

------------------
...GoodLuck.....

[Guest]

Gaffing a fish in a closed season is absolutely a violation.

By gaffing you show intent to keep the fish. It is unreasonable to consider a gaffed fish a less then intrusive manner of handling a fish. If witness it will be violation for sure.

The length of time a fish unintentionally caught while in a closed season is to be as short as possible. This would fall into the realm of discretion of the observing conservation officer. If the observing official feels it was an undue length of time of retention of the fish, you are likely to be sited for a number of things, excluding intentionally fishing for a species in a closed season.

Basically if you walk away from the hole or area you caught the fish at, it shows intent. This I got from a CO when asked about the situation.

You are to unhook and release the unintentionally caught fish as soon as humanly possible, in a fashion that will lessen any harm done by the catch.

The conservation official may also render a decision if you are intentionally fishing for a species in a closed season. This they will do by observation and by consideration of the tactics used while you are angling.

(Example) It would be unreasonable to assume if your fishing with 8" smelt and 30# dacron on a tip-up rigged with a Swedish hook that you are targeting panfish.

Similar judgments may be made if they feel you are intentionally fishing for a species of fish on open water. They will watch and see how you behave before they act. They often consider the taking of a photograph as an intention act of fishing for a species; you may find it difficult to argue in court.

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Backwater Eddy.......><,sUMo,>

Backwater Guiding
Ed Carlson
(701)-281-2300

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[swamptiger]

I hereby nominate Eddy for the job of interpreting the "finer points of the law". Looks to me like he's got it down pretty good.

[Guest]

Unfortunately, if you give people an inch they take a mile. The law is written for us to follow, immediately means immediatlely. If you push the DNR for a clarification they will tell you this, they have to maintain consistancy. Will a CO cite a person for CPR of a trophy out of season, only if you do something to p*** him off. But you have to have a law that protects the fish. Once you put a fish in your livewell, by law you are to keep it. How many of us fish tourneys and cull after you reach your limit, it's against the letter of the law yet good to throw fish back that you aren't going to keep. I think instead of trying to back the CO's and DNR into a corner, people need to keep the resource #1 and you can't go wrong. As far as gaffing a fish, you should never gaff a fish you intend to throw back in season or out!!! I mean come on, taking a small wired hook out and letting something go is one thing. Sticking an 1/8 inch diameter chunk of steel into a fish and letting it go, doesn't matter what part of the fish it's in it still isn't a good idea!!

[Guest]

The CO has to make the call, and again they do it by observation, not guess work.

On boundary waters rivers where one state is open for a species while the other is not this situation is a mess.

The Red had this situation for years and many anglers would fish intentionally for a species in a closed season.

Fortunately the states got together and came up with an agreement that works and is largely fair for anglers on both sides of the border. Cooperation is much better then confrontation!

Believe me, if they think your intentionally fishing for a species in a closed season.

Odds are they will have it all on video and documented before they ask you Wasssuuppp.

Keep that in mind.

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Backwater Eddy.......><,sUMo,>

Backwater Guiding
Ed Carlson
(701)-281-2300

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[bieganekbaitco]

Gregory.....You've been missin out on some fine fishin lately!!! When you coming up next????? You buy the brews and I'll put you on fish!!! Last night was beautiful on the big pond.

Back water Eddy....I listened to you this winter talking to Curt Quensell on KKAQ. You where very interesting...lets go fishing sometime. Later.....Markus

[Guest]

Lots of folks have cell phones with them now days, if your in question, call the local DNR office.

The best rule of thumb is: If your nervous about what your doin, then maybe ya shouldn't aughta be doing that!

[graffitigreg]

Let me try this. NO ANSWERS! JUST QUESTIONS! OK? PLEASE?

Most of this thread except for NINETOE trying to pass his duty to me and Mark's invitation for a Crappie and a Cocktail have been "Call the DNR. They will give you an answer."

AND... TRY TO REMEMBER - NO QUESTION IS A DUMB QUESTION (But try to stay on topic .

If you have a question you'd like to ask the DNR then please post it here. If there are enough questions, and the idea seems to have legs, I'll see if I can find the answer person.

[This message has been edited by graffitigreg (edited 04-28-2002).]

[NateEboy-1]

NINETOE,Is it your duty to moderate this site in the way that greg suggests? Are you getting paid to moderate this site or do you do it for pleasure in your spare time? Kelly, what kind of shoes should I wear when I rent one of your sleepers next year? Greg, do you go to the butcher shop and ask, Where's the milk? Seriously, doesn't everybody get a copy of the regulations when they buy a liscense? If you want to know whats going on in the red lake area, come to this site. If your regulation book doesn,t answer your question then call the DNR. Sorry for the sarcasim,but I think your approach to your topic was harsh. Good luck with your candidicy for educational forums moderator, you have my vote. Ken

[Guest]

The DNR and the NDG&F both have Q&A sections on their respective web sites. They do not feel compelled to host Q&A forums on privately owned web sites because of state Vs private interest conflicts inevitably pop up.

You and I as a taxpayers and hunting or fishing license holder have the right to request and receiver information from the appropriate authorities, and also to gain a response in a timely manner.

The respective agencies have boundaries that they need to stay in as a state funded organization. Even an off duty state employee may be sticking his neck out by monitoring and hosting a public forum as an authority on subjects associated with his or her job. Darn good way to get canned is what I am saying.

Although they do have individuals who are designated to be PR spokespersons. They also do need to stay in bounds to cover their job description, and there back 40.

We as forum moderators try to offer our best feedback but also try to know when to say look elsewhere for answers.

This I feel is the case here. When you need detailed legal interpretations of a state law, it is time to ask the folks paid to enforce them, we are not lawyers.

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Backwater Eddy.......><,sUMo,>

Backwater Guiding
Ed Carlson
(701)-281-2300

http://home.talkcity.com/ResortRd/backwtr1/index.html

[swamptiger]

I think Labrat had a very good point when he said "if you are nervous about what your doin, then maybe you shouldn't aughto be doin that". There is always some discretion and judgement involved in everything. My guiding rule is if I don't know for sure, I just don't do it. This is a good way to stay out of trouble. Above all, be courteous & polite to COs. This goes a long ways.

Gross violations where there is no doubt are a whole different story again...

[Buckets]

sometimes it's better not to ask ,, but here goes anyway .. Is it leeegle to take the license off your hard house to use on your portable ?? Does a house have to have a license tag on it if not in use ?? Seems to me The old Co on LOTW years ago wouldn't say anything about it when a house tag expired and was sitting for a couple weeks till the next trip.. and he wasn't known for letting any-thing get by him.. (except I heard some-thing went (in) him once ! A guy once told me a CO warned him for fishing out of his pickup with tipups without a shelter license !??!

[NINETOE]

NateEboy-1 No it is not my responsibility to post or interperet state fish and game laws. I do this in my spare time and I do not get paid.

[This message has been edited by NINETOE (edited 03-18-2002).]

[Surface Tension]

Buckets if its on the ice it needs a license.
So no you cant take it off when you leave and use it on an other shack.
As far as the the original post. The fish and game laws are clearly stated in the regulation hand out. Read them and keep it with you when fishing. If you follow the way it is "worded" and "key words" there shouldnt be any gray area. Heres an example, "Imediate release" It means just that. If your not sure what imediate means take a dictionary with you. Now you know how the term "To the Letter of the Law" can about. Laws are written to exclude any loop holes or gray areas. If you have to ask if weighing it first is ok then dont. Would a CO ticket you if you did? He could. I hope this puts this to rest. Good Luck,ST.

[Rick]

The DNR has been asked to monitor a Forum and have not committed to it in the past. We sincerely doubt they will.

They do check the site often and occasionally answer questions and provide information, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I too would like them to be involved in a special DNR Forum. I would be happy to create it and woud put a link to their e-mail address on the forum as well.

I did have a DNR Forum in the past, but it was not used very often, so turned into a waste of resources with too much DNR bashing going on.

If anyone can get them to monitor a DNR forum I will be happy to put it up. We would want one of them to be a Moderator for that forum.

Normal FishingMinneosta.com policies would need to be followed there as well. It will not be allowed to become a DNR bashing forum. Just good solid discussion and exhange.

Greg,
it's in your court now. Let us know how if you can get a member of the DNR to answer questions posed here in a DNR Questions and Answers Forum.

[smoker108]

Surface tension, You do not need a license on your house if your not fishin in it.I was selling a house at L.O.W. last year and asked the C.O. when he stopped to check us.I didn't want to leave my license on it when the buyer came to get it. I have a hard sided house at URL also and checked with a C.O. there too .He said the same thing.I went all of last year and this year with 1 license for all my houses and never had a problem. If you read the rules it says while fishing.

Dark houses, fish houses, and
portable shelters placed on the ice for shelter while fishing must be
licensed, except that a license is not required on border waters with
Wisconsin, Iowa, and South Dakota.

I think that is what grafittigreg is gettin at.

[graffitigreg]

BUCKETS: I took your post and made four questions out of it. I sent the questions to the DNR information website this morning. No reply yet but I don't know how long they usually take to issue a reply. When I get the reponse I'll post it here - verbatim.

NINETOE: I wanna be paid

RICK: I'm testing the waters. It's pretty obvious there are some misconceptions and, this may or may not be the way to clear some of them up. Also, I may or may not have the time. If the previous DNR forum was, as you say, a bunch of DNR bashing we'll have to find a way to insulate the DNR. They won't want to cooperate unless the atmosphere is positive.

SMOKER108: Exactly!

[Surface Tension]

"Dark house's,fish house's and portable shelter's placed on the ice for shelter while fishing must be licensed"

It dosent say while you fish.
It say's if you use a shelter to fish from, it has to be licensed.
Now someone is going to ask, How does a CO know if the shelter is for fishing and not sleeping? If theres holes in the floor it must be for fishing. Like earlier post stated if you have to ask or your not sure dont do it. Is this a generation thing or is it me. Why push your luck.

[smoker108]

It say's if you use a shelter to fish from, it has to be licensed

I couldn't find that quote anywhere.
I had to ask the CO because of the sale so I did.Both replies were the same.They said as long as you are not fishing in it you don't need a license on it.You still need your name and adress or DL # on it. I even specifically asked about moving one license from one house to another and they both said it was OK.
I wanted to make sure it wasn't just one COs interpretation that is why I asked another .
It was news to me also , I had been buying 3 licenses every year before that.

[Surface Tension]

Smoker, If you asked a CO and he said it was ok I guess Im going to have to ask my CO. I know you need the ID reguardless of what your doing.

[N4652E]

Surface Tension and Smoker108: READ THE RULE. It does not say you have to be fishing from the shelter, only that you have a "shelter on the ice while fishing".

I asked a CO about using a tent with a heater for the kids to warm up in while we fished. Yup, that is a shelter used while fishing and needs a license, even with a solid floor, and even though you only use it to warm up and you fish out in the open.

He also said I should have a shelter license if I use the truck to warm up and leave the rods out on the ice. If I pull the tip-ups and rods when I get in the truck, I am not fishing and do not need the shelter license with me.

That is what the law states. My experience tells me the CO's have some latitude, and will strictly enforce this if they are having a bad day or you really aggravate or abuse them.

[Surface Tension]

N4652E, I think thats what I said.
Who's on first. wowowowowwow

As far as needing a shelter while sitting in a truck while fishing. I think this is a story that is passed along like the two Jamacan's a toothbrush and a camera story.

[Buckets]

See ! It's just better not to ask sometimes!Ha ! It seem's like a grey area and likely to get attention and hammered out.. but I will continue to move my license around and unless they prove i'm in two places at once or change the wording I think I'll be OK . Been ck,ed alot and so far never a question about the way I stik on my tag .. and no problems with no current tag on a empty house either.. tipup!

[Buckets]

ST, also I know some who put a shelter on the ice for their skateing rink and dont license them ..

[Surface Tension]

Buckets Thats right. I didnt say you had to licence them.