Covid 19 Tips

[Tom Sawyer]

For those of you that would rather save your money for gas, instead of hoarding hand sanitizer ...

2 cups of 95% or greater isopropyl alcohol (99% pictured), 1 cup aloe vera gel

 

Good luck everyone  stay positive and productive. 

Don't forget to breathe,  there's still lots of ice out there Gustophsen

 

 

 

 

[Rick]

2 hours ago, Pat K said:

 

Had my hip replaced last week just a few days before the hospital stopped doing elective surgery. Doctors, nurses and therapist all preached the benefits of your 1st 4 tips but they also unanimously agreed that unless you were a food service or health care worker the masks served almost no purpose other than being a security blanket for the person wearing it.

And like your statement is worded it would protect other people more than the person wearing it. 

That would depend on what type of face mask as far as protecting yourself N95 and N99 properly fitted do filter out a virus.

 

So, their answer to you is confusing at best.

 

But yes, it was worded and aimed at ensuring you didn't unknowingly infect someone else. Who could then go onto some very serious health issues or wirse.

[DonkeyHodey]

41 minutes ago, Tom Sawyer said:

For those of you that would rather save your money for gas, instead of hoarding hand sanitizer ...

2 cups 60% or greater isopropyl alcohol, 1 cup aloe vera gel

...And don't touch your lure for at least 30 minutes after applying or the fish'll smell it and be scared away!  Those slab crappies you've been icing DO have a sense of smell, ya know...

 

...And be careful if you warm your hands over the campfire or try and light a smoke after applying...  

 

(*disclaimer:  we can take the virus seriously and still find something to laugh about.)

[Rick]

If you use towelettes be sure they state antiviral on them.

 

Wipe all surfaces prior to and after touching when out. Especially your credit cards.

 

Wipe hands as well.

 

Soap and water is the most effective at destroying this virus.

 

When masks become widely available, wear them whenever you are out, to protect others. 

[Pat K]

6 hours ago, Rick said:

If you use towelettes be sure they state antiviral on them.

 

Wipe all surfaces prior to and after touching when out. Especially your credit cards.

 

Wipe hands as well.

 

Soap and water is the most effective at destroying this virus.

 

When masks become widely available, wear them whenever you are out, to protect others. 

 

Had my hip replaced last week just a few days before the hospital stopped doing elective surgery. Doctors, nurses and therapist all preached the benefits of your 1st 4 tips but they also unanimously agreed that unless you were a food service or health care worker the masks served almost no purpose other than being a security blanket for the person wearing it.

And like your statement is worded it would protect other people more than the person wearing it. 

[Tom Sawyer]

https://www.kxl.com/19-things-you-should-stop-doing-at-the-grocery-store-in-the-age-of-coronavirus/

[Mike89]

good common sense things too!!!!  good share Tom!!   

[fishingallday]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:35 AM, Rick said:

If you use towelettes be sure they state antiviral on them.

 

Wipe all surfaces prior to and after touching when out. Especially your credit cards.

 

Wipe hands as well.

 

Soap and water is the most effective at destroying this virus.

 

When masks become widely available, wear them whenever you are out, to protect others. 

Thanks for the tips. Sometimes people forget good ol' soap kills viruses as well.

[BobT]

Here's another tip to keep in mind. I was watching KVRR from Fargo this morning and they showed a clip from the ND governor's message. He said the ND fishing opener will go as scheduled and out of state visitors are accepted but he did say something else that I think is rather important. He said that if it is noticed that people don't exercise the social distancing rules at the boat launches, they will be closed. I'm sure this warning would stand in MN as well.

 

It would be unfortunate for all of us to have to lose the privilege by the actions of just a few. Please keep this in mind if you go out.

Edited April 9, 2020 by BobT

[gimruis]

8 minutes ago, BobT said:

He said that if it is noticed that people don't exercise the social distancing rules at the boat launches, they will be closed. I'm sure this warning would stand in MN as well.

 

It would be unfortunate for all of us to have to lose the privilege by the actions of just a few. Please keep this in mind if you go out.

 

They knew this could be a problem at the Rainy River for the early walleye/sturgeon season so they shut her down before it even started.  Last week at Oconto, WI (Green Bay) there were WAY too many people from out of state (MN, IL) and across the state of Wisconsin there fishing so they shut that area down too.  People can't be driving across the state to do this like they normally would, and they can't pack their boats with 4 or 5 people either.  Go by yourself or with maybe one other person you have already been around and stay close to your house.  Keep your distance at the landing like Bob said otherwise it will only take a few abusers to ruin it for the rest of us.

[Kettle]

13 hours ago, fishingallday said:

Thanks for the tips. Sometimes people forget good ol' soap kills viruses as well.

Welcome fishingallday from NY, NY?

[Rick]

Welcome to FM @fishingallday

 

Keep us posted on how things are going in NY...please?

[delcecchi]

On 3/21/2020 at 5:12 PM, Pat K said:

 

Had my hip replaced last week just a few days before the hospital stopped doing elective surgery. Doctors, nurses and therapist all preached the benefits of your 1st 4 tips but they also unanimously agreed that unless you were a food service or health care worker the masks served almost no purpose other than being a security blanket for the person wearing it.

And like your statement is worded it would protect other people more than the person wearing it. 

And now the story has changed....

[Pat K]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:58 PM, delcecchi said:

And now the story has changed....

That was 3 1/2 weeks ago. Went in for PT earlier this week and they were giving cheap masks to anyone that wasn't wearing one as they came in the door.

[Grainbelt]

On 4/9/2020 at 8:50 AM, BobT said:

He said that if it is noticed that people don't exercise the social distancing rules at the boat launches, they will be closed. I'm sure this warning would stand in MN as well.

 

If this happens after the poor ice conditions that kept many off the lakes, the fishing should be good when this dilemma subsides. 

[Rick]

From Brian A:

Commissioner Malcolm and the U of M finally released a bit more model data/results yesterday, which Governor Walz is using as a large piece of input data for his decision making. I’d like to thank them for that. Now I’d like to throw on my engineer hat and see if any of that data even makes sense by comparing it to the IHME model.

???????:

Walz, Malcolm, and the U of Minnesota think Minnesota will see ????? ?????? and ICU demand of ???? ????. Peak of ???? ??.

Dr Fauci and the IHME model out of the U of Washington think Minnesota will see ??? ?????? and ICU demand of ??? ????. Peak of ????? ??.

??? ? ?? ????????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???????? ? ????-????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?? ? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ??? ? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????. Dr Fauci is a well-respected epidemiologist – more credentials than anyone who’s working on the U of M models as far as I can tell. He’s touting numbers from the IHME model out of the University of Washington -- so it’s not like I’m just re-tweeting random numbers from a right wing nutjob here.

Which model is correct? Why do we care? Well first off, if the U of M model is actually correct with a peak of July 13, then we should expect the stay-home order to be extended well into July. Their 95% confidence range goes out to 21 weeks actually on this date....so that July 13 date could really mean as late as August 17. All recommendations I’ve seen call it completely asinine to be relaxing restrictions prior to peaking. So, the half million Minnesotans currently out of work (and more to come) need to plan to remain out of work well past July 13 -- possibly almost to September. Planning a work/daycare/etc stoppage into July/August is a a lot different than planning to be out of work into early May following an April peak. At this point, one would have to suggest that even starting school in the fall is in question!

Furthermore, besides peak date issues (which have obvious economic and social implications), let's try an exercise where we assume the U of M model is correct on mortality and project a few numbers for nationwide death toll. Assume we are going to experience 22000 deaths here in MN -- the state with the lowest current per-capita infection rate, a fairly low population density, and only 5.6M total population. Now, do the math on what the US population of 327M should see. Even under the conservative (and simple) assumption that the other states had the same population density and demographics (we know NYC actually has 10x higher density than Minneapolis), ??? ? ?? ? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?.?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ? ????? ????? ??? ?.?? ??????? ??????!

<cough> <cough>

Does that seem correct? Have ANY other well-respected models suggested numbers in this range using a social distancing and stay-home order rules that we have in place? If we trust this U of M model, that means the rest of the country is royally effed – pardon the French. I guess my question is would you normally trust a home-grown model that's so far off from other nationally-respected models? One that is contradicting the other predictions by a factor of 50x? I know I don’t trust it. I've been trying to figure out whether Walz and Malcolm are intentionally lying to us, or if they are just incompetent. Sadly, I'm actually hoping it's the latter, as lying would open the door to a lot of political conspiracy theories that I don’t subscribe to.

--------------------------------

For reference, here’s the links to all the data above

Here's the PDF from the Minnesota department of health:

https://mn.gov/covid19/assets/MNmodel_PPT_tcm1148-427787.pdf

Lots of charts in there, and several scenarios. The one they seem to be focused on is "scenaro 4" that says 22000 deaths if we maintain our current trajectory (Stay-Home order through May 8 followed by lower social distancing for another 3 weeks).

Here's the IHME models:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/minnesota
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/new-york

I threw a NY link in there just for good measure -- not because I think MN will end up like NY, but to quickly illustrate that the U of M models are suggesting we'll be ALMOST TWICE AS BAD on mortality numbers as the IHME prediction for NY.

[papadarv]

Amazing per Walz  MN will not peak until July and we will see 22,000 dead. Just heard on Fox that Wisconsin expected to Peak tomorrow, Easter Sunday. 138 dead, 444 in hospital & 179 in ICU. MN 64 death, 145 in hospital, 69 in ICU and estimated 570 still sick - (798 recovered 1427 infected, Wis no longer track this). If you look at "hot spots, NY, WA, CA etc. where peak is  happening now you will see # death exceeds ICU. Here is today's MN COVID graph. I also don't see IHME model of 442 death with our peak forecast on April 26 is a bit overststed.

 

 

ICU started to flatten, death about to go above ICU, total recover blowout, estimate still sick lagging recoveries. Walz and U of M may want to get off there liberal high horse and look at real data.

 

While working on getting my boat ready today thought about hydroxychloroquine. President Trump talked about it, media, dems, doctors want ballistic. Media & dems hate him I get that but what about doctors and scientist dr's. I've seen numerous people totally grateful for the drug, it saved their life. I have yet to see ONE Dr. talk about one person who died because they took this drug. Hydroxychloroquine is cheap, been around for 50 years, all side effects totally understood, yet Dr's. still degrade usage. I say Follow The Money. I've watched more TV the past 10 days than I have in 6 months. Every 10 min there multitudes of adds many are very expensive drugs with pages of deadly side effects and a Dr. pushing use. There are a few new drugs in the works only it will be months or years before approved with billions of tax $$$ spent. If the 20+ million hydroxychloroquine prescriptions ( I understand it to be 5 pills 2 0n day one and 1 a day for next 4 days.) do indeed get to COVID sick people that get well we all could be safe fishing opening day. You'll also have some unhappy drug companies and Drs.

[Wanderer]

FWIW, I think Walz is overplaying his hand.  What we’ve done has been good but the numbers don’t support the need to continue much longer.  I heard his reason; other states gave up too soon and saw a second spike, but the plan was to get MN ready for the surge.  We’re there.

 

Our MN (and some other states) hospitals are treading water with extremely low census while we finish getting ready for the surge that doesn’t promise to live up to his modeling worst case scenario.  Not that we want it to, that’s a given.  Even Bethesda has an ultra low census they won’t report on the news.  
 

We’ve educated ourselves as a society.  Everyone that’s going to understand what they can do to help themselves and their neighbors are doing what they’re willing and able to do.  If others aren’t doing it now, they’re not going to, especially on a flat or declining curve.

 

Without going into too many details I’ll say I’ve worked a model myself and don’t see the results that warrant prolonging the Order.  And I’m not alone in my opinion.

[BobT]

42 minutes ago, Wanderer said:

Our MN (and some other states) hospitals are treading water with extremely low census while we finish getting ready for the surge that doesn’t promise to live up to his modeling worst case scenario.

The reality doesn't even come close to living up to the best base model scenario. Before someone says that social distancing was the key, the model scenarios included social distancing in the calculations. 

 

I understand the reasoning behind blowing it out of proportion. Scare the people into submission so they actually take the precautionary steps. But the downside is the panic and stress that is created. Many people are freaking out way beyond what is necessary.

Edited April 12, 2020 by BobT

[smurfy]

2 hours ago, Wanderer said:

FWIW, I think Walz is overplaying his hand.  What we’ve done has been good but the numbers don’t support the need to continue much longer.  I heard his reason; other states gave up too soon and saw a second spike, but the plan was to get MN ready for the surge.  We’re there.

 

Our MN (and some other states) hospitals are treading water with extremely low census while we finish getting ready for the surge that doesn’t promise to live up to his modeling worst case scenario.  Not that we want it to, that’s a given.  Even Bethesda has an ultra low census they won’t report on the news.  
 

We’ve educated ourselves as a society.  Everyone that’s going to understand what they can do to help themselves and their neighbors are doing what they’re willing and able to do.  If others aren’t doing it now, they’re not going to, especially on a flat or declining curve.

 

Without going into too many details I’ll say I’ve worked a model myself and don’t see the results that warrant prolonging the Order.  And I’m not alone in my opinion.

I agree, think it's way blown out of proportion. And I hear the idea of scaring the bejesus out of people to take it seriously. Just in my neighborhood alone I don't see the recommendation followed very closely.

 

I'd be very surprised if things weren't reopened after the may 4th date. I don't believe people will abide by much after that. 

[papadarv]

1 hour ago, smurfy said:

I agree, think it's way blown out of proportion. And I hear the idea of scaring the bejesus out of people to take it seriously. Just in my neighborhood alone I don't see the recommendation followed very closely.

 

I'd be very surprised if things weren't reopened after the may 4th date. I don't believe people will abide by much after that. 

Wanderer/smurfy I'm with you. Being well past the 65 age I opted a couple weeks off from Home Depot. My last few days many families with kids running around the store touching and licking everything and parents with no care about their kids behaviour. Attempting to maintain 6 ft. I got many nasty comments with colorfull metaphors as to how stupid we were. Drove by Menards, Home Depot & Walmart Monday and Thursday last time I have seen that many cars in parking lots was on Nov. black Friday. Maybe NY and other Hot spots got scared into submission but not that obvious here in "Minnesota Nice" 

[IceHawk]

Menards has know one under 16 policy going right now and Home depot is monitoring amount of people in store at one time.   Have to Admit a few us have commented lately that many aren't following the protocol near as much now. People are starting to ease back some. 

1 hour ago, smurfy said:

1 hour ago, smurfy said:

I agree, think it's way blown out of proportion. And I hear the idea of scaring the bejesus out of people to take it seriously. Just in my neighborhood alone I don't see the recommendation followed very closely.

 

I'd be very surprised if things weren't reopened after the may 4th date. I don't believe people will abide by much after that. 

 

Seeing the less social distanceing more and more. Yesterday for example saw a group of different couples probably 10 or better  at a local campground standing in a group not 6 foot apart slamming a few beers having a good ol time! . And if you would of drove by a local lake by me yesterday I don't know if you could of fit a chair between the amount of people shoulder to shoulder shore fishing and I guarantee they weren't all releated. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by IceHawk

[smurfy]

In all honesty I can't for the life of me wonder how this can go longer than the may 4th date. I have had follow this more then I care to with my job duties. I have the proclamations from MN, WI, SD. And ND. I also try to tune into Walz's updates as much as possible. 

 

The clear, to me anyway, message, these orders are simply to give the medical professionals and hospital the time they need to get the much needed supplies and things in order for this supposed mass histeria. Like much of the other mass illnesses your never going to completely stop or prevent it.

[Kettle]

Anarchy will slowly ensue on small levels. I'm actually figuring that the state mandates will go to May 8th as scenario 4 seems to be the one Walz is following. I also think social distancing recommendations will be in place through Aug 28th as that is in scenario 4 as well. Not saying that I agree with it in the least but I see the writing on the wall. It will be interesting to see what business get added to essential in the upcoming weeks and if it leans to favor a group of voting constituents. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Kettle

[smurfy]

Kettle, hope your wrong, but I don't see it that way. There are already people looking into lawsuit's over this. in either Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn center there already fighting with lawyers over his decision not to all essential construction to begin work. More is coming.

[Rick]

Interesting read.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/?fbclid=IwAR0qiuxAvId46hTz0lk1lvbZgGVvDZ6ZZSmyBV1fIlEXWFUpdS2s6cjMWHI

[BobT]

Maybe my opinion about this carries a little bias, but I can't help but think those who are self-employed should be able to get some kind of unemployment compensation since this is a government mandated shutdown for them. Those with employees can qualify for a loan/grant as part of the $2T package but my daughter is a hair dresser and does not have employees. She rents her space and during this lock down she still has to pay for that space. I told her to talk to her landlord about cutting some of the cost but I understand that her landlord still has her own obligations to meet. He apartment landlord cut the rent in half during the lock down so that was great. Fortunately for my daughter, in the year and a half that she has been self-employed she did a great job of building up a savings account. When she started on her own, I told her that I highly recommend that she try to save and maintain up to a minimum of one year's salary....just in case. She now is living off her savings but I am quite certain she hasn't been able to save a year's supply yet.  

[Kettle]

Currently in MN the average age of death from COVID19 from the states webpage is 86 years old and the median US life expectancy is 79.2 years old. So although unfortunately there have been some young people succumbed to this virus it does affect older individuals at a higher rate which is similar to other illnesses. The death rate per 1,000,000 is 67 in the US. If you do the math for MN population that would total close to 400 deaths which is obviously horrible but inline with the national statistics projected for the state through May. Keep in mind that the death rate from pneumonia every year in the US is 151 people per 1,000,000. I'm not undermining the severity of this virus and MN has more than enough taken precautions. Even if the mortality rate increases by 2.5 times as much it's mortality rate is still less than pneumonia which prior to the 1940's pneumonia was know as The Death of Man metaphorically speaking 

[gimruis]

I thought Walz over played his hand too when he extended the order until May 4.  Minnesota has one of the lowest infection rates in the country and the lowest in the area around here too.  I understand that he's trying to be overly cautious but I think he could have done a more "relaxed" approach than he did.  Protecting the elderly and people with underlying health conditions is going to be extended for a longer period of time.  Everything we do now shows results in about 2 weeks.

 

I don't care for the model he's using (U of MN).  That model isn't updated regularly like the CDC/U of Wash/Federal Govt models are.  It shows a peak in the summer, and the other ones being used shows a peak here next week.  How can models be THAT far off?  Models are data driven.  So one of them isn't using the proper data.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm all for good hygiene, distancing, and no groups larger than 10.  And its likely that quite a few people have this virus than what are confirmed to be positive by official testing.  On the positive side, this whole thing has made people appreciate respect for other's "personal bubble."  I hope that continues for a long time.  I was always nervous when someone I didn't know was standing a foot away from me in public breathing down my neck.

Edited April 13, 2020 by gimruis

[BobT]

13 hours ago, Kettle said:

Currently in MN the average age of death from COVID19 from the states webpage is 86 years old and the median US life expectancy is 79.2 years old. So although unfortunately there have been some young people succumbed to this virus it does affect older individuals at a higher rate which is similar to other illnesses. The death rate per 1,000,000 is 67 in the US. If you do the math for MN population that would total close to 400 deaths which is obviously horrible but inline with the national statistics projected for the state through May. Keep in mind that the death rate from pneumonia every year in the US is 151 people per 1,000,000. I'm not undermining the severity of this virus and MN has more than enough taken precautions. Even if the mortality rate increases by 2.5 times as much it's mortality rate is still less than pneumonia which prior to the 1940's pneumonia was know as The Death of Man metaphorically speaking 

I don't know how accurate this is but I have recently seen reports from multiple sources that the CDC has been including all deaths where the victim tested positive for COVID-19 either before or after death as a COVID-19 fatality. This skews the data to put a higher death toll than reality. One of the sources I saw was from a highly respected doctor in Montana who was raising concern about how the death certificates were being filed. A couple other sources mentioned that the number of deaths attributed to pneumonia so far in 2020 have dropped compared to the average over the past decades or two (possibly considerably) in the timeline of our COVID-19 pandemic. In other words, people that would normally have probably died from pneumonia anyway have been recorded as COVID-19 cases. 

 

Like I said, I do not know how accurate this information is but it does have reason to give one pause.

Edited April 13, 2020 by BobT

[Tom Sawyer]

Some more common sense ....