Benefits of non-oxy in a new boat motor other than storage

[Hookmaster]

The motor on my new 1875 Pro Guide is the Yamaha VF90, a.k.a. VMAX 90 SHO. I haven't picked up the boat yet but believe the manual recommends E10 (10% ethanol). I talked to a mechanic in the Yamaha booth at the Boat Show (who services all motor manufacturers) and he said to run E10 since there is no performance improvement in running non-oxy. What are others running in newer (< 5 years old) Yamaha 4-strokes? I still plan to talk to Yamaha but haven't made that call yet.

[mrpike1973]

I have a 3 year old Yamaha 4 stroke 30 hp motor I run RIng free and run non oxy since new never I repeat never had an issue ever. Any boat motor regardless of brand when i ran ethanal always had problems of some sort I would rather row my boat than but ethanal in it. For me it is what my dealer recommended me to do. 

[gimruis]

I have a 4-stroke 2015 Mercury and have always put nothing but ethanol free premium in it.  In fact, I put this ethanol free premium in all of my "seasonal" engines (lawn mower, snow blower, outboard motor, etc).  The issue with using gasoline with ethanol is when the engine sits around for a long period of time with it in there.  If you use your outboard motor regularly all year round, then there is not an issue (like your truck).  You could simply add a fuel stailizer instead too, just make sure you have the proper mixture.

 

I'm sure plenty of people use plain old 87 octane with ethanol and that is their decision, but I have a choice and I choose to use ethanol free premium because its a variable I can control when it comes to maintaining the life of a seasonal engine.

[Bigfatbert]

2 hours ago, Hookmaster said:

The motor on my new 1875 Pro Guide is the Yamaha VF90, a.k.a. VMAX 90 SHO. I haven't picked up the boat yet but believe the manual recommends E10 (10% ethanol). 

“recommends” and “can” are to different words with two different meanings , and i would bet it does not recommend E10 but it can definitely use it , and a savings at he pump would be there for you usually and you will be a happy camper . There can definitely be costs at a later time that you may have to deal with that would probably negate any savings  at the pump that you may save by using the E10. Water issues come to mind and definitely can come to haunt you and your ever so precious new rig . Also I would definitely avoid discount gas stations and there products that surely are not ’s 2’s with the larger gas companies gasoline products ,.  Ima non oxy person and wouldn’t have it any other way , but to each his own I guess ....  and I hope your all washing those hands these days , good day to all , cheers !!

[Hookmaster]

I've used non-oxy in all my small engines, boat motors and snowmobile for 20+ years. I put Stabil in the non-oxy year-round and Ring Free in my current 1999 Yamaha F100. No issues. Will continue this approach with the new motor.

 

This was supposed to be in the "Equipment Expert" thread. I don't know how it got in this one. It's good there still is ice around or maybe no one would have seen it.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Hookmaster

[huntnfish]

I have a 2005 Suzuki 115 and always run ethanol free premium. I am running the boat every weekend and pulling tubes a lot of the time. My boat has a 30 gallon tank and last year I went through just under 2 tanks. I have owned the boat 3 years. This was my first 4 stroke and I was amazed at how much better they are on fuel compared to the old 2 strokes. My dad had a mid 90s 135 Mercury and I remember having to fill gas more than twice a weekend when pulling tubes. I am fine with paying a little more for the peace of mind. I should say that when I am not pulling the kids and just heading out fishing I don’t run at wide open. I normally keep the RPMs around 4K. 

I know some that run aviation fuel in their outboards and small engines also. They say that when they started doing that a lot of their problems with the seasonal motors went away. 

 

[gimruis]

9 hours ago, huntnfish said:

My boat has a 30 gallon tank and last year I went through just under 2 tanks

 

That is some incredible fuel effeciency huntnfish.  I usually go through about 2 tanks/season in mine and I have an 18 gallon tank.  I went fishing 41 times last season.  Wish my truck got that kind of effeciency.

[AlwaysFishing23]

There’s nothing wrong with running non oxy but really in direct injected or EFI units it really doesn’t matter. Those engines are designed to run on ethanol but running non oxy certainly doesn’t hurt it. I run a 75hp 2 stroke yammie. Previous owner bought it new and ran 87 its entire life and I’m continuing that as that’s what he always run. That is a carb unit so running non oxy would not hurt but never had any issues with it yet. And also running a lower octane fuel helps in the spring and fall when temps Are cooler as it doesn’t take as much to ignite 87 vs 91. But when it comes to sleds (very dear to me) its 91 non oxy every fill up no matter how much per gallon it cost me. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by AlwaysFishing23

[Mike89]

non oxy all the way, even in the Harley....  

[gimruis]

Can someone explain to me what they mean when they say "non oxy?"  Is this just another term for ethanol free premium?

[AlwaysFishing23]

“Non oxygenated premium”. Non oxy is just short for it. 

[gimruis]

1 minute ago, AlwaysFishing23 said:

“Non oxygenated premium”. Non oxy is just short for it. 

 

So is that the same as ethanol free premium?  I've never even seen the term "non oxygenated premium" labeled at the pump.

Edited March 12, 2020 by gimruis

[AlwaysFishing23]

That’s correct! I haven’t either so yes technically the name is non oxygenated premium. But I say non oxy premium. Not sure why 

[SkunkedAgain]

Non-oxy is just another name for ethanol free. It's confusing for no good reason. Mention it in other parts of the country or even neighboring states and you get confused looks. They know ethanol free, but non-oxy is a foreign term!

 

My 2009 Suzuki 90hp EFI is supposed to be run only on non-oxy per the owner's manual. It says that you can run on ethanol in a pinch without any damage, but it says not to do it on a regular basis.

 

I used to always have carburetor issues in my 1997 snowmobile. Once I switched over to non-oxy in all of my toys and power equipment, I ceased having a need to clean carburetors. I'm not rich but I'm not poor either. The cost of putting non-oxy in my tanks is worth it and does not put a dent in my retirement plans.

 

Do what Yamaha recommends. I put ethanol in my truck because Ram says that is fine and the fuel is constantly moving through the system. 

[Getanet]

My folks pontoon has a 40hp Yamaha 4 stroke. The motor was hard to start and ran horribly when they first got it (brand new). Like Mr. Pike, they now use non-oxy with Ringfree and it runs just fine. Kind of a pain and more expensive, but its a smaller lake and they don't take it out all the time, so 5 gallons last quite a while..

 

 

[BobT]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:48 PM, Hookmaster said:

The motor on my new 1875 Pro Guide is the Yamaha VF90, a.k.a. VMAX 90 SHO. I haven't picked up the boat yet but believe the manual recommends E10 (10% ethanol). I talked to a mechanic in the Yamaha booth at the Boat Show (who services all motor manufacturers) and he said to run E10 since there is no performance improvement in running non-oxy. What are others running in newer (< 5 years old) Yamaha 4-strokes? I still plan to talk to Yamaha but haven't made that call yet.

Performance could be hindered. The engine computer system is designed to perform best using the recommended fuel. If the owner's manual recommends E10 blend then that is what your motor will perform best on. 

 

Here's something to consider. Back in the 20th century when unleaded fuel first hit the market, there was widespread concern about using it in engines without the lead and that it could cause problems. One that I recall was that engine life would be affected by the lack of lubrication the lead provided. Engines last much longer today than they did then. Then, when E10 hit the market, there were all kinds of concerns again. One that I recall was that the alcohol would loosen rust particles inside the fuel tanks, plugging up the fuel filter. I have never experienced this in any gasoline powered engine I have ever owned. 

 

In 1994, when I bought my old Farmall M tractor, it occurred to me that it was manufactured in 1948 when fuel included lead and no ethanol. For this reason, at first I bought a lead substitute to mix in the fuel. The additive cost me almost $5.00 per quart, although that was enough to treat 32 gallons of fuel. One day I happened to read the label and discovered there was only one ingredient listed....kerosene. I couldn't believe I was paying nearly $5.00 per quart for something I could get at the local service station for $1.65 per gallon. Talk about a major scam. I mixed kerosene in the fuel for a while but as the years went by, I occasionally forgot about it and today I just use regular E10 gasoline with no additives and my 1948 tractor runs fine. I have never had issues with plugged fuel filters, engine wear (still original), or even performance that I could attribute to the fuel. 

 

I use regular E10 in everything including 2007 ATV, 2012 Cub Cadet riding lawn mower, 40+ year old push lawn mower that I rarely use, 40+ year old garden tiller that is used twice per year, chainsaw I purchased new in 1985 that is used maybe once per year, 2014 Ford Edge, 2016 Ford 150, 15 year old Jiffy 10" ice auger, and 2012 90hp Evinrude E-TEC. The only engines I use stabilzer in are my E-TEC for winter storage and my ice auger for summer storage.

 

I do not drain fuel from the tanks even for those items I rarely use. The gas I have mixed for my chainsaw is currently almost 2 years old and is stored in an old anti-freeze bottle. A side note: I used that chainsaw professionally for four years in the 1980's so the engine is well used. I do not know how old the fuel is in my push lawn mower except that it is at least 2 years old. I do not experience issues but I also store all of these items out of the weather so maybe that plays a role.

Edited March 13, 2020 by BobT

[Meterman]

I am not an expert on this, but I have been told by trusted sources that the issue with Ethanol-gas in boats and other small engines is the fact that the fuel may stay in the tank for long periods without being consumed or turnover.   When I purchased my new boat in 2012 with a 225HP and 9.9 HP Yamaho 4-stroke outboards, a good friend of mine shared that he had to spend several thousand dollars repairing the motors on a new boat of theirs due to an ethanol issue causing damage.  With the money you have invested in your boat and motors, I believe it is worth the additional $$ to run non-oxy or "no ethanol" gasoline in my opinion.   I do purchase 87 octane non-oxy gas when I can versus the 91 octane premium and have had no issues.   I also use non-oxy in my mowers, snowblowers, any small engines.

[BobT]

On a somewhat related side note, I have experienced fuel issues with biodiesel. Two years ago my Allis-Chalmers 190XT began to give me a lot of trouble. It fluctuated up and down a lot at idle, no power, and just plain horrible performance. I suspected it had to be something with the injector fuel pump and considering its age, 1968 model, this wasn't surprising. I brought my tractor in for repair. After they tested it, they agreed with my fuel pump theory.

 

When I went to pick it up after it was repaired I asked what the pump re-builder determined to be the problem. The diagnosis was "biofuel damage." I asked what that meant and was told that the fuel pump was damaged from biodiesel fuel. So, I did some digging and learned that with biodiesel there are inherent potential issues along with the benefits. Using biodiesel fuels can result in a net improvement of emissions and can improve cetane levels. On the other hand, bio-diesel fuel has its drawbacks particularly when it comes to storage.

 

It depends a lot on how it is stored but on average, old school diesel fuel had a shelf life from 1-2 years before it began to break down. With the introduction of today's low sulfur requirements, the shelf life of diesel fuel dropped to about 6-8 months on average depending on storage methods. Biodiesel, however, due to its organic materials, has an average shelf life of 4-6 weeks depending on storage methods. Because a portion of the biodiesel is composed from organic matter, it is subject to bacterial and mold growth and this can be damaging to fuel injector pumps.

 

Until then I was not aware that I had been using biodiesel so I contacted my supplier to ask if I had been using biodiesel. He sais, "Yes. It has been required by law in MN for the past 10 years." I use about 130-150 gallons of diesel fuel per year in my farming operation so I usually fill my storage tank once each year. My tank is located on the north side of my tree grove so it is not exposed to direct sunlight, which helps improve its shelf life but not enough to avoid issues completely. My supplier now includes an additive in my tank to keep bacterial and mold growth in check. 

 

Most of my neighbors use more fuel and so theirs doesn't sit long enough to become an issue. Same thing for highway vehicles. Just a word of warning. If you have a diesel pickup and you let it set for long periods of time, it might be good to consider protecting it from this issue. Also, since home heating oil sits most of the summer, it wouldn't hurt to think about that as well.

Edited April 4, 2020 by BobT