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kelly-p

Walleye Surplus Ends On Red Lake For Now

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kelly-p

A drop of 20% is planned, to protect the stock of spawners

By Tony Kennedy  Star Tribune

 December 7, 2019 — 4:56pm

State and tribal fisheries managers will cut the walleye harvest on Red Lake next year by 20% to adjust to a reduction in spawners and to maintain a good quantity of the lake’s signature fish.

The change follows a year in which fishing regulations were loosened to check a walleye surplus. Henry Drewes, DNR regional fisheries manager in Bemidji, said spring/summer regulations will be determined in April after the winter catch is analyzed.

“When the fish are there, we loosen the harvest,” Drewes said. “We had a surplus in spawner stock abundance. … We’ve fallen back to ‘optimal.’ ”

The DNR and Red Lake Nation agreed to smaller harvest targets on Wednesday, the same day that the state and band renewed the official memorandums of understanding to co-manage Red Lake’s walleyes. The Chippewa band controls 85% of Minnesota’s largest inland lake. The remainder — 48,000 acres of Upper Red Lake — is state territory.

“Obviously, the fishery is in really good shape,’’ DNR Fisheries Chief Brad Parsons said.

He was on hand Wednesday at Seven Clans Casino in Red Lake, along with DNR Commissioner Sarah Strommen and Red Lake Tribal Chairman Darrell Seki Sr., to fortify what began 20 years ago as the Red Lake Walleye Recovery Project.

In the mid-1990s, Red Lake’s famous walleye fishery collapsed from overharvest. Then-DNR Commissioner Rod Sando and then-Red Lake Chairman Bobby Whitefeather forged a partnership, and a joint technical committee was formed. The committee replenished the waters with a seven-year harvest moratorium, coupled with a walleye stocking program. Today, walleye reproduction is natural.

Drewes said the first four memorandums of agreement between the parties were each five years long. The new agreement is written to last 10 years — recognition that the short-term recovery phase is over.

“We’ve reached a condition of stability,” Drewes said.

Under regulations that began Dec. 1, state-licensed anglers this winter will once again be allowed to keep four walleyes, with only one fish longer than 17 inches. But the DNR’s overall walleye harvest goal through next summer has been lowered from 300,000 pounds to 240,000 pounds. Gone will be the spring/summer regulation that allowed a four-walleye bag with one over 20 inches. Next season’s downsized guidelines will depend on the volume of walleyes caught through the ice.

Overall, the DNR will frame regulations to fit a new annual harvest limit of 5 pounds of walleye per acre of water. That’s down from last year’s targeted rate of 6.25 pounds per acre. Drewes said Red Lake Nation will ratchet down its commercial harvest of walleyes at a similar rate per acre, capturing about 1 million pounds of walleyes in total. The band operates one of the largest freshwater commercial fisheries in the United States, established in 1917.

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leech~~

Walleye Surplus Ends On Red Lake

 

"Drewes said Red Lake Nation will ratchet down its commercial harvest of walleyes at a similar rate per acre, capturing about 1 million pounds of walleyes in total. The band operates one of the largest freshwater commercial fisheries in the United States"

 

Needed for the Subsistence living of it 5,873 people! 😆😆

Edited by leech~~
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gimruis

They'll error on the cautious side of conservative on this because they don't want a repeat of what happened to this lake 15 years ago.  Its a lot easier to try and prevent the problem than it is to fix it after it occurs.

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Xplorer
14 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Walleye Surplus Ends On Red Lake

 

"Drewes said Red Lake Nation will ratchet down its commercial harvest of walleyes at a similar rate per acre, capturing about 1 million pounds of walleyes in total. The band operates one of the largest freshwater commercial fisheries in the United States"

 

Needed for the Subsistence living of it 5,873 people! 😆😆

 

No idea where you get this idea of subsistence, that has never been a condition of this agreement.

Lets put it in perspective since you seem to be hung up on the fact that there are 5873 tribe members profiting from this commercial fishery.

If the tribe makes a profit of $5 per pound of walleye harvested, and they harvest their entire 1 million pounds of walleye, that will produce a net yearly profit of exactly $852 per tribe member per year......... Yea that's livin' high off the hog. Family of 4, well that gets you a whole $3408 for the year.

 

Question for ya Leech..... they put a concrete wall on the rez line thru the lake this spring.  Which side gets fished out first (with no additional restrictions added to lower harvest for either side), State side or Tribe side?   

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leech~~
3 hours ago, Xplorer said:

 

No idea where you get this idea of subsistence, that has never been a condition of this agreement.

Lets put it in perspective since you seem to be hung up on the fact that there are 5873 tribe members profiting from this commercial fishery.

If the tribe makes a profit of $5 per pound of walleye harvested, and they harvest their entire 1 million pounds of walleye, that will produce a net yearly profit of exactly $852 per tribe member per year......... Yea that's livin' high off the hog. Family of 4, well that gets you a whole $3408 for the year.

 

Question for ya Leech..... they put a concrete wall on the rez line thru the lake this spring.  Which side gets fished out first (with no additional restrictions added to lower harvest for either side), State side or Tribe side?   

 

I know I know silly me. I keep going back to the intent and verbiage of the Origin treaty.  Yeah know the whole right to Hunt and fish within the Ceded territory for subsistence-thing.  

Words that are still used today in their Regs below.  We both know the days of the canoe and torch light are long gone and eating fish for subsistence (food) has been replaced from Lbs to amount of cash! Is the Fishery a big money maker that the Band can live off of probably not, do they need to live off Walleye for food anymore probably not.  Is the Seven Clans Casino helping to fill the Fisheries void of days gone by?  Dang right skippy!  😉   

 

But, it would be interesting to build your imaginary lake wall and see what happens in 10 years under two different management styles!  😄

 

Open-Water Spearing and Netting Regulations: 1837 Ceded Territory in Minnesota.  

"Lakes other than Mille Lacs. Net fisheries in lakes other than Mille Lacs are intended to provide opportunity for subsistence harvest of walleye; so muskellunge and sturgeon may not be kept, nor can northern pike in excess of the bag limit, nor can commercial nets be set. Subsistence gillnetting is allowed from June 1 to March 1 in any lake that is 1,000 acres or larger and in all lakes identified in 9.08(2) of the Model Code. In lakes 1,000 acres or larger, the allowable mesh sizes (bar) are 1.5 to 1.75 inches. In identified lakes under 1,000 acres, only 1.75 inch mesh (bar) may be used. Nets may be up to 100 feet in length and 4 feet deep"

Edited by leech~~
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kelly-p
2 hours ago, leech~~ said:

1837 Ceded Territory in Minnesota.

I  am not really knowledgeable about treaty's but wasn't that concerning the area around Mille Lacs and part of Wisconsin?

Concerning the Red Lake Band I think you want to look at the Treaties of 1863, 1864 and the Nelson Act of 1899. I could be wrong but I do not think the Red Lake Band ever ceded what is the present Reservation including their waters of URL and LRL.

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leech~~
1 hour ago, kelly-p said:

I  am not really knowledgeable about treaty's but wasn't that concerning the area around Mille Lacs and part of Wisconsin?

Concerning the Red Lake Band I think you want to look at the Treaties of 1863, 1864 and the Nelson Act of 1899. I could be wrong but I do not think the Red Lake Band ever ceded what is the present Reservation including their waters of URL and LRL.

 

So, your pretty sure that not one of them say anything about Subsistence Hunting or fishing? 🙄

 

Edited by leech~~

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Rick
1 hour ago, leech~~ said:

 

So, your pretty sure that not one of them say anything about Subsistence Hunting or fishing? 🙄

 

You're the one who brought it into the conversation. Don't you think it's on you to tell us?

 

Under $4000 for a family of 4 is at best, subsistence or below. Even if it was by chance part of the treaty language.

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leech~~
32 minutes ago, Rick said:

You're the one who brought it into the conversation. Don't you think it's on you to tell us?

 

Under $4000 for a family of 4 is at best, subsistence or below. Even if it was by chance part of the treaty language.

 

So did you miss this part above?

"We both know the days of the canoe and torch light are long gone and eating fish for subsistence (food) has been replaced from Lbs to amount of cash! Is the Fishery a big money maker that the Band can live off of probably not, do they need to live off Walleye for food anymore probably not.  Is the Seven Clans Casino helping to fill the Fisheries void of days gone by?"

 

Even if it is not in the treaty language your just going off semantics, subsistence gathering is in just about all Treaties to ensure that they had a way and right to exist. Some of the Treaty language was stated the way it was to help the bands from fighting each other over Hunting and Fishing on each others lands. The Fishery is not the only way the band makes a living Rick. In the past there was lot of trading of Wild Rice, goods made out of Deer hides, fish and meat.  Today they have way more options then ever before with improved Fishery and of course the Casino.  How the Band elders divides all the income within the band I have no idea as it does not effect me nor you. 

 

 

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leech~~
2 hours ago, Rick said:

You're the one who brought it into the conversation. Don't you think it's on you to tell us?

 

 

Ok can you stop being such a Diick-Rick!  😁

 

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING Between The Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, And The United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs

 

Reservation Waters: The Band will determine allocation between recreational, subsistence, and commercial harvests. Differing harvest methods may be managed with a combination of strategies 1 and 2 above. Commercial harvest will be regulated to meet the predetermined commercial quota. At this time there is a large amount of uncertainty on how the Band plans to fish and how future harvest allocations may be split among the various types of fishing. If during the season it appears that the quota in one category may exceed the pre-determined allocation, it may be possible to reallocate from the remaining categories to prevent exceeding the reservation's total allowable catch. The commercial quota will be calculated by multiplying the upper limit of the target harvest zone by total reservation acres then applying the percentage of the harvest allocation that the Band has declared for commercial fishing. Size and age structure of the commercial catch will be managed by gear regulation to protect and maintain spawning stock. Once the quota has been reached, commercial fishing will be suspended until the following year. Estimates of subsistence and angling harvest will be less precise than estimates of the commercial harvest

Edited by leech~~

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gimruis

I think they should just stop using nets.  If they want fish, they should have to use fish and line like everyone else.  Just my personal opinion.

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Rick

We all have an interest in maintaining the lake. I thank god we have this gem to fish and am grateful it's producing again. I'm grateful to all those who worked on the recovery for all of us to enjoy and/or gain economic benefit from.

 

If people like you came in to the place you made your livelihood (subsistence) and told you how to produce your goods or services, how well would you listen?

 

A fish meal is a fish meal no matter how it was gathered.

 

Let's find a positive way to co-exist with each other. The bitterness is not becoming nor is it productive.

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Xplorer
14 hours ago, leech~~ said:

 

I know I know silly me. I keep going back to the intent and verbiage of the Origin treaty.  Yeah know the whole right to Hunt and fish within the Ceded territory for subsistence-thing.  

Words that are still used today in their Regs below.  We both know the days of the canoe and torch light are long gone and eating fish for subsistence (food) has been replaced from Lbs to amount of cash! Is the Fishery a big money maker that the Band can live off of probably not, do they need to live off Walleye for food anymore probably not.  Is the Seven Clans Casino helping to fill the Fisheries void of days gone by?  Dang right skippy!  😉   

 

But, it would be interesting to build your imaginary lake wall and see what happens in 10 years under two different management styles!  😄

 

Open-Water Spearing and Netting Regulations: 1837 Ceded Territory in Minnesota.  

"Lakes other than Mille Lacs. Net fisheries in lakes other than Mille Lacs are intended to provide opportunity for subsistence harvest of walleye; so muskellunge and sturgeon may not be kept, nor can northern pike in excess of the bag limit, nor can commercial nets be set. Subsistence gillnetting is allowed from June 1 to March 1 in any lake that is 1,000 acres or larger and in all lakes identified in 9.08(2) of the Model Code. In lakes 1,000 acres or larger, the allowable mesh sizes (bar) are 1.5 to 1.75 inches. In identified lakes under 1,000 acres, only 1.75 inch mesh (bar) may be used. Nets may be up to 100 feet in length and 4 feet deep"

 

Seriously???   You dont even know that the Red Lakes are not, and never were, a part of the 1837 treaty or part of the Ceded territory, yet you spout off here as if its fact? Take that carp back to the Mille Lacs forum where it belongs.    If you want a little FACT finding mission, take a look for the maps of the 1837 and 1854 ceded territories.  Not even close to Red Lakes.

I'll save ya the difficult google search, heres the maps for both https://data.glifwc.org/ceded/

So stop biatching about a system that is working on the Red Lakes.  Its been the best walleye lake in MN basically since it reopened in 2006.  And yes, I have fished it every year since then, how about you????   Tried to see if I could find even one fishing report from you on this forum........ crickets.

 

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creepworm
1 hour ago, gimruis said:

I think they should just stop using nets.  If they want fish, they should have to use fish and line like everyone else.  Just my personal opinion.

 

That is a fair opinion. My opinion is that as long as the safe harvest level is not exceeded, I really don't care if it takes them 1 day, 6 months, or a whole year; or if they are using hook and line, nets, or dynamite. That is the tribes choice to make.

 

Some people go home to a super model every night; I do not. Some people have billions of dollars; I do not. Some people can net walleye on Red Lake; I can not. Life is not and never will be fair.

Edited by creepworm
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leech~~
27 minutes ago, Xplorer said:

 

Seriously???   You dont even know that the Red Lakes are not, and never were, a part of the 1837 treaty or part of the Ceded territory, yet you spout off here as if its fact? Take that carp back to the Mille Lacs forum where it belongs.    If you want a little FACT finding mission, take a look for the maps of the 1837 and 1854 ceded territories.  Not even close to Red Lakes.

I'll save ya the difficult google search, heres the maps for both https://data.glifwc.org/ceded/

So stop biatching about a system that is working on the Red Lakes.  Its been the best walleye lake in MN basically since it reopened in 2006.  And yes, I have fished it every year since then, how about you????   Tried to see if I could find even one fishing report from you on this forum........ crickets.

 

 

Yeah, I think I made that correction after Kelly pointed that out. Weren't you the one looking for the word "subsistence" verbiage being used in one of my earlier posts? So, I found examples under two different bands Fishing Information. 

Be happy!  🙂

 

As far as this Ice seasons fishing reports. Yeah, like many I'm kind of waiting for the ice to get a tad bit safer. I usually don't hit the Ice until after Christmas.  That way my wife and kids don't have to remember how I died on thin ice during that time every year.

Lets don't make this subject personal, it effects everyone.  Like I said before, I hope the Band has the system right-this time for the sake of all mankind!  

 

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING Between The Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, And The United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs

 

Reservation Waters: The Band will determine allocation between recreational, subsistence, and commercial harvests. Differing harvest methods may be managed with a combination of strategies 1 and 2 above. Commercial harvest will be regulated to meet the predetermined commercial quota. At this time there is a large amount of uncertainty on how the Band plans to fish and how future harvest allocations may be split among the various types of fishing. If during the season it appears that the quota in one category may exceed the pre-determined allocation, it may be possible to reallocate from the remaining categories to prevent exceeding the reservation's total allowable catch. The commercial quota will be calculated by multiplying the upper limit of the target harvest zone by total reservation acres then applying the percentage of the harvest allocation that the Band has declared for commercial fishing. Size and age structure of the commercial catch will be managed by gear regulation to protect and maintain spawning stock. Once the quota has been reached, commercial fishing will be suspended until the following year. Estimates of subsistence and angling harvest will be less precise than estimates of the commercial harvest

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Rick
3 minutes ago, leech~~ said:

 

Yeah, I think I made that correction after Kelly pointed that out. Weren't you the one looking for the word "subsistence" verbiage being used in one of my earlier posts? So, I found examples under two different bands Fishing Information. 

Be happy!  🙂

 

As far as this Ice seasons fishing reports. Yeah, like many I'm kind of waiting for the ice to get a tad bit safer. I usually don't hit the Ice until after Christmas.  That way my wife and kids don't have to remember how I died on thin ice during that time every year.

Lets don't make this subject personal, it effects everyone.  Like I said before, I hope the Band has the system right-this time for the sake of all mankind!  

 

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING Between The Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians, The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, And The United States Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs

 

Reservation Waters: The Band will determine allocation between recreational, subsistence, and commercial harvests. Differing harvest methods may be managed with a combination of strategies 1 and 2 above. Commercial harvest will be regulated to meet the predetermined commercial quota. At this time there is a large amount of uncertainty on how the Band plans to fish and how future harvest allocations may be split among the various types of fishing. If during the season it appears that the quota in one category may exceed the pre-determined allocation, it may be possible to reallocate from the remaining categories to prevent exceeding the reservation's total allowable catch. The commercial quota will be calculated by multiplying the upper limit of the target harvest zone by total reservation acres then applying the percentage of the harvest allocation that the Band has declared for commercial fishing. Size and age structure of the commercial catch will be managed by gear regulation to protect and maintain spawning stock. Once the quota has been reached, commercial fishing will be suspended until the following year. Estimates of subsistence and angling harvest will be less precise than estimates of the commercial harvest

The sentences, in the treaty language above, using subsistence indicate it is but one of many reasons for fishing. You indicated subsistence fishing is the only reason they should have for fishing based on the treaty.

 

Clearly the way you were talking about it should be corrected to indicate they clearly intend to fish in many different ways to suit any of their intended purposes, don't you think?

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leech~~
14 minutes ago, Rick said:

The sentences, in the treaty language above, using subsistence indicate it is but one of many reasons for fishing. You indicated subsistence fishing is the only reason they should have for fishing based on the treaty.

 

Clearly the way you were talking about it should be corrected to indicate they clearly intend to fish in many different ways to suit any of their intended purposes, don't you think?

 

Going off the Origin Treaty the needs of the people at the Time, was for the need of subsistence to feed their people. Treaties aren't just for land boundaries, most also outline the resources and use of them within. 

 

But, Treaties, much like our Constitution is always changing, amended and interpreted the way people want it to read for their own gains. 

Again, let's stick with the issues of this topic and not make it personal.  I haven't pointed out one members views on this subject, only replied to them.  I am hopeful as anyone that after a 100 years of misuse and abuse of this lake that all of us on both sides of the use chain can work out the issues to keep it healthy and productive.  Carry-on-Topic!  😉

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Xplorer

I was looking for ANY reports from you on the URL forum, as in historically back to 2006.

You keep trying to make this situation appear the same as Mille Lacs, and it is not and never will be.  

The State has no, and most likely will never, have any say in what the band can do with its resources within the reservation. Which includes about 350,000 surface acres of lower and upper Red Lakes.   

The Memorandum has been in place for about 20 years, and has only produced the best walleye fishery in the state.  

So what exactly is your issue with an extension to an agreement that has produced this fine fishery the past 15 years?

 

Edited by Xplorer
SP
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Xplorer

Just so folks know, I do know Leech.  He's a good guy!  I even had to help get him out of a swamp on his sled one-time, on a ride a few years ago LOL 😂   

I just dont get why folks care about HOW a quota is met, rather than that the quota is sustainable for the fishery.   Which in the case of Red Lake since 2006, the memorandum has done.  Why does it matter how those fish are harvested?

The lake is being pounded on the state side right now by thousands of fisherpeople each weekend.  In two weeks I will be there for 3 days with my son for the first of probably 3 trips this winter.  My son has caught hundreds of walleyes out of Red since 2006.  I am thankful for the trips/times we've had there over the years, and most importantly, believe by what I've seen since 2006, that there will be many more hundreds of walleyes he will catch in the future due to the memorandum.

The relationship the State and Band have in regards to this fishery is unique to Red Lakes.  Its working, based on both State and Band data.  And that's a good thing.

 

With that I'm out on this one.   See ya in a couple weeks Kelly, say hi to Patsy and give Fred a pat on the head for me.  Dylan and I went thru all of our gear and just need to patiently wait it out now😀

 

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Wanderer

Last question: who’s on top?

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leech~~
1 minute ago, Wanderer said:

Last question: who’s on top?

 

Of course me. Remember, I don't want to share that fish!  😆

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