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kelly-p

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leech~~

Lot's of really good reading and points in the above.  Hope they have learned some lessons from the past and the Greed doesn't come back again!  It's always Man's Greed that makes them fail! 😕

 

"Commercial fishing grew from 200 Indian netters
 in the 1960s to a peak of 600 in the 1980s,
 with some individuals setting 80 nets, Bedeau
 said. With large bonuses from the association,
some of them made $80,000 per season, he said.

"It was greed," Dickenson said. "The culture
 got lost."

 

"In 1989, the tribe's commercial netters
 registered a record 948,000 pounds of walleye."

 

And this years quota was just about back to that of 820,000.  So did they learn anything? 🤔

Edited by leech~~

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Wanderer
10 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Walleye 11lb – Morning Catch

$175.89 – $186.89

It’s what Red Lake Fishery is famous for. Walleye is craved as one of the best-tasting fish available. They are prized for their rich, tender, flaky character. This is healthy eating too! Walleye is low in saturated fat with significant amounts of magnesium, potassium and Vitamin B12.

Our Morning Catch Walleye is Wild-caught, hand-filleted and shipped to you the same day. You can’t get fresher, healthier fish anywhere.

 

image.png.567cebc4dab72627332b08896b6a3ea1.png

 


You sure this is from Red Lake in MN?  There’s a Red Lake in Canada that’s a commercial fishery.  Often confused with MN.

6B5E6104-D435-4AF6-9F01-A73BA38F9AC0.thumb.png.56959b4205acc64f9d58eb17b2da3179.png

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kelly-p
5 hours ago, leech~~ said:

"In 1989, the tribe's commercial netters
 registered a record 948,000 pounds of walleye."

The ones netting guessed that the bootlegged pounds were more then what was going through the fisheries.  There were some very big customers for the bootlegged walleyes they were not just sold in bars and parking lots but entire truck loads to one destination.  Many of them then resold the fish again. White people were also bootlegging out of the State waters some of them were even putting gill nets in the rivers during the spawning run. There was plenty of blame to go around.

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leech~~
2 hours ago, Wanderer said:


You sure this is from Red Lake in MN?  There’s a Red Lake in Canada that’s a commercial fishery.  Often confused with MN.

 

 

🙄😏🙄

Red Lake Nation Fishery
19050 Highway 1 East
Redby, MN 56670

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjAq-2m1qLmAhUBeawKHY5qDksQFjAAegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fredlakewalleye.com%2F&usg=AOvVaw1nHj6YkRKvxzCJ0_4YRnXE

Edited by leech~~
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Wanderer

Fact checker says OK. 😋  You may or may not believe this but I was partially poking the bear too. 😉

 

Cheaper per pound than going up to fish and limits every time.

Edited by Wanderer
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leech~~
1 hour ago, Wanderer said:

Fact checker says OK. 😋  You may or may not believe this but I was partially poking the bear too. 😉

 

Cheaper per pound than going up to fish and limits every time.

 

Did you see that you can buy cheeks too. That's way cheaper then most street corners in Mpls! mooning-448.gif

Walleye Cheeks 3lb – Fresh Frozen

$56.85

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tfin

Leech,

 

"In 1989, the tribe's commercial netters
 registered a record 948,000 pounds of walleye."

 

And this years quota was just about back to that of 820,000.  So did they learn anything?

 

You posted this as if it makes a point but it has no bearing what so ever.  It seams that you're the one that can't seem to learn anything.  Stop using non related information to try to prove a point.  In 1989 the total lbs of fish in the lake may have been 1/100 of what it I this year.  So what if the Indians use it as a commercial fishery.  We took the whole country from the and use it for commercial everything all in the name of greed!  Realize that giving them a piece of water and letting them do with it what they want is a good thing and they are working with us to make it a well sustained fishery  But in order to do that you would have to be selfless for a second.  


 

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bowhuntingboy1
On 12/7/2019 at 8:11 AM, tfin said:

Leech,

 

"In 1989, the tribe's commercial netters
 registered a record 948,000 pounds of walleye."

 

And this years quota was just about back to that of 820,000.  So did they learn anything?

 

You posted this as if it makes a point but it has no bearing what so ever.  It seams that you're the one that can't seem to learn anything.  Stop using non related information to try to prove a point.  In 1989 the total lbs of fish in the lake may have been 1/100 of what it I this year.  So what if the Indians use it as a commercial fishery.  We took the whole country from the and use it for commercial everything all in the name of greed!  Realize that giving them a piece of water and letting them do with it what they want is a good thing and they are working with us to make it a well sustained fishery  But in order to do that you would have to be selfless for a second.


 

So to right a wrong that occured over 200 years ago, we just let them destroy a lake? Because if they take out fish at the rate they did in the early 90s, which as leech pointed out, it is getting close, the lake will get to the point it was at in the late 90s. Like people have said, there was blame to go around, but at the end of the day, in my eyes, having two sets of rules for two sets of people is just counterproductive.

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kelly-p
4 hours ago, bowhuntingboy1 said:

we just let them destroy a lake? Because if they take out fish at the rate they did in the early 90s, which as leech pointed out, it is getting close, the lake will get to the point it was at in the late 90s.

In the 1970's the Red Lakes went into a 4 year "boom/bust" cycle. Only 1 good year class at a time. That year class would get big enough to spawn then be caught out of the lake. The fry from that year class would be the only strong year class in the lake so they would grow rapidly then spawn and be caught out repeating the cycle. By the late 70's it was well known that there was a very good chance that the Red Lakes walleyes would collapse.  Then in the early 90's that year class was caught out before it spawned. The rest is history. Right now there are multiple year class's in the Red Lakes.

18% of the Red Lakes are State waters. For the 2019 harvest season 160,830 pounds of walleyes were harvested from those State waters. for the entire 2019 harvest years 299,377 pounds of walleyes were harvested from the State waters. We, anglers in the State waters are harvesting more then twice as many pounds of walleyes as we did in the 90's. 82% percent of the Red Lakes are Band waters. For the 2019 harvest season the Band harvested 443,148 pounds of walleyes. Less then 1/4 of what they were harvesting in the 90's. Yet you are pointing fingers at the Band?  Show us something then that is more then bar talk and rumors.

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bowhuntingboy1
7 hours ago, kelly-p said:

In the 1970's the Red Lakes went into a 4 year "boom/bust" cycle. Only 1 good year class at a time. That year class would get big enough to spawn then be caught out of the lake. The fry from that year class would be the only strong year class in the lake so they would grow rapidly then spawn and be caught out repeating the cycle. By the late 70's it was well known that there was a very good chance that the Red Lakes walleyes would collapse.  Then in the early 90's that year class was caught out before it spawned. The rest is history. Right now there are multiple year class's in the Red Lakes.

18% of the Red Lakes are State waters. For the 2019 harvest season 160,830 pounds of walleyes were harvested from those State waters. for the entire 2019 harvest years 299,377 pounds of walleyes were harvested from the State waters. We, anglers in the State waters are harvesting more then twice as many pounds of walleyes as we did in the 90's. 82% percent of the Red Lakes are Band waters. For the 2019 harvest season the Band harvested 443,148 pounds of walleyes. Less then 1/4 of what they were harvesting in the 90's. Yet you are pointing fingers at the Band?  Show us something then that is more then bar talk and rumors.

If the quota in the 90s was only 100kish more than it is now, that's a problem as it signifies they could potentially reach very near that quota. There is several year classes because 10s of thousands of dollars were dumped into stocking the lake, with the band funding about 2/3, which we should be grateful for. Still cost the state 28k and that is not a situation you want to have to keep a lake running. If we dont either have more huge, expensive stockings or stop tribal netting, red lake will again one day struggle. 

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kelly-p
32 minutes ago, bowhuntingboy1 said:

If the quota in the 90s was only 100kish more than it is now,

Are you forgetting about the estimated 1,500,000 pounds of walleyes a year bootlegged  in the 90's?

 

20 minutes ago, leech~~ said:

There is several year classes because 10s of thousands of dollars were dumped into stocking the lake

The last of the stocked fish died off 7 or 8 years ago. This is all natural spawn now.

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bowhuntingboy1
10 hours ago, kelly-p said:

Are you forgetting about the estimated 1,500,000 pounds of walleyes a year bootlegged  in the 90's?

 

The last of the stocked fish died off 7 or 8 years ago. This is all natural spawn 

Natural spawn from the several year classes stocked into the lake. When you give millions of walleyes 7 years of no fishing and free reign with very few species of natural predators compared to most lakes and regulate the lake thereafter, of course there is going to be some good spawning classes. There would be minimal classes right now if not for the stocking. And as for the estimate, I would be aware of estimates of the black market, doesn't seem like the easiest thing to estimate. On that note, there is most likely still black market walleye sales going on, although they may not be as large, this coupled with the potential for the band to take nearly as many legal fish as they did in the 90s could very likely cause the lake to one day again struggle. Maybe not as bad as it was in the late 90s, but we shouldn't use rock bottom as the baseline for struggling. And as for any drama going on, totally unnecessary and I dont want any part of it. We dont need to bring any emotion into discussions

Edited by bowhuntingboy1
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bowhuntingboy1

Another thing, why should I feel guilty about whatever happend 200+ years ago? I dont know about you, but 200 years ago, my family was in Germany. If I'm expected to feel guilty because people that happend to have the same race as me stole land 200 years ago, then I dont know what is wrong with our country. 

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walros

I think most of the problem here is that no one trusts each other to have their best interests in this matter. I think the lake was abused, both sides realize what a great fishery it was and are trying to make it back into what it was. Personally I think they have done that and deserve credit for doing so. Is everyone going to be happy, seriously doubt that is gonna happen but it is a great fishery that should be around for many years. For that we should be grateful that both sides have compromised their positions for the greater good of this lake. Rant over !

 

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Rick

If you have personal issues please report the post. If your post goes off topic in an area that can be reported or messaged to me privately it has been and will be removed for the sake of keeping the peace here. Good points made from every angle, let's keep it that way. No personal attacks. If you want to address me personally about an action I may have taken, please private message.

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leech~~
On 12/7/2019 at 8:11 AM, tfin said:

Leech,

 

"In 1989, the tribe's commercial netters
 registered a record 948,000 pounds of walleye."

 

And this years quota was just about back to that of 820,000.  So did they learn anything?

 

You posted this as if it makes a point but it has no bearing what so ever.  It seams that you're the one that can't seem to learn anything.  Stop using non related information to try to prove a point.  In 1989 the total lbs of fish in the lake may have been 1/100 of what it I this year.  So what if the Indians use it as a commercial fishery.  We took the whole country from the and use it for commercial everything all in the name of greed!  Realize that giving them a piece of water and letting them do with it what they want is a good thing and they are working with us to make it a well sustained fishery  But in order to do that you would have to be selfless for a second.  


 

 

Can you please show me any of the data I used was wrong. I'm sure the MN DNR, Red Lake Band and Kelly would love to see that because all the data numbers I used came from those sources. 

As as far as making a point, do you have one to add on this subject?  You added no information or new facts what so ever, other then your feelings and an old history lesson that we have all heard a 1000 times.  The fact is, the Red Lake Band is in charge and manages the majority of the largest fresh water lake in the state of Minnesota.  For the sake of all mankind we hope they get it right this-time!  😕 

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kelly-p
11 hours ago, bowhuntingboy1 said:

this coupled with the potential for the band to take nearly as many legal fish as they did in the 90s could very likely cause the lake to one day again struggle.

So what do you feel should be the cap for the number of pounds of walleyes the Band can harvest from the Red Lakes?

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leech~~
53 minutes ago, kelly-p said:

So what do you feel should be the cap for the number of pounds of walleyes the Band can harvest from the Red Lakes?

 

Shouldn't there be some kind of tribal need number? After all, isn't this Hunting, fishing-gathering thing really all about subsistence living?  🤔

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bowhuntingboy1
54 minutes ago, kelly-p said:

So what do you feel should be the cap for the number of pounds of walleyes the Band can harvest from the Red Lakes?

I feel it would be best to shut down commercial fishing from red lake and simply have the natives follow the same regs as everyone else. You could say this is unrealistic, but you asked for what I think and this is my opinion. Another alternative I see is let the natives have lrl to do whatever they want with and compromise so everyone else gets access to the entirety of url with the same regs for everyone and a closing to commercial fishing. Then we see 20 years down the road how each lake is doing. This is obviously also very unrealistic, but I'd love to see it happend. 

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leech~~
kelly-p
14 minutes ago, bowhuntingboy1 said:

I feel it would be best to shut down commercial fishing from red lake and simply have the natives follow the same regs as everyone else. You could say this is unrealistic, but you asked for what I think and this is my opinion. Another alternative I see is let the natives have lrl to do whatever they want with and compromise so everyone else gets access to the entirety of url with the same regs for everyone and a closing to commercial fishing. Then we see 20 years down the road how each lake is doing. This is obviously also very unrealistic, but I'd love to see it happend. 

If that was tried I would guess that the Band would be in court very fast to get the boundary dispute settled. Then all of URL could be Bands waters. If you're going to poke a sleeping bear better be prepared for him to wake up.

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bowhuntingboy1
29 minutes ago, kelly-p said:

If that was tried I would guess that the Band would be in court very fast to get the boundary dispute settled. Then all of URL could be Bands waters. If you're going to poke a sleeping bear better be prepared for him to wake up.

That's why I said it's very unrealistic. 

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Did you NOT read the part of the story where the tribal fisheries was created by the BIA (whites)? Other bands in N MN also had fisheries created but did not stick with it as Red Lake did.

 

What I don't understand is the misinformation spread and how we always are jealous when someone (the band) has something we don't?

 

To me, if you want netting banned then you should be prepared to give up your electronics trolling motors and just row on lakes where you want to fish.

 

We're in this together. Its working.

 

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ozzie

Just remember when you point fingers there are at least 3 pointing back at you!!!  This is never an easy subject to debate because of the emotions that are involved.  Every time someone blames the RLB for commercial fishing or netting, I get why they are opposed to it, but at the same time I just laugh a little.  Yes commercial netting can be a bad thing, but if it is regulated closely and they are on top of things, why do we care how they get their allocated pounds of fish?  I can promise you that what ever poundage is reportedly taken out of the state controlled waters is higher due to thieves that can't fish by the rules.  I don't agree with certain pollical issues that play into the area up there, but that debate is way beyond my education level!!  I do know that we sure do complain a lot about the RLB, and how they get their walleye poundage, on a huge lake that we can't even enter!!  I think the RLB has a good handle on what is happening on their portion of the lake, and if there is any illegal activity going on their side, they will handle it accordingly.  I don't believe they are looking the other way towards illegal netting the way it may have been in the past.  What I do know of Red Lake is that it is a beautiful lake that is certainly abused on the state controlled portion with illegal harvesting and horrible actions regarding disposing of garbage in the winter.  If we could clean up our act, and were perfect, then I think we could look at other and try to figure out what is going wrong, but first we need to correct our issues!!  Good Luck

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Random dude

Best to listen to Kelly on this one.   He has been around long enough to see the booms and busts and attended all the meetings on the rebuilding after the crash.   The way I look at it, look at the hordes of fishermen on the small non-tribal portion.   Now imagine spreading that kind of pressure on the entire upper and lower lake, it would crash in a matter of a few years.   I honestly think we owe a debt of gratitude for the low lbs/acre harvest on the vast tribal waters.   If they harvested as much per acre as we did, crash time.   The non-tribal waters are the factory that keeps healthy population going that we're seeing now.  It must be working, results speak for themselves.

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