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monstermoose78

Disbelief - mille lacs walleyes - harvest decisions

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monstermoose78
25 minutes ago, gimruis said:

 

The lake is not being mismanaged for everyone.  Bass anglers and muskie anglers are enjoying what is perhaps the golden age of their target species out there right now.  Its ranked #1 in the country for bass fishing and #6 in the country for muskie fishing.  So clearly, something is being done right for those game fish species.  People are coming up from Texas, Alabama, and Missouri to bass fish.  I know this because I saw the license plates of their trailers at the accesses this spring.  I'm not saying that I agree with how the lake is managed for walleyes and certainly I disagree with the tribal harvest of spawning fish, but to say that the lake is mismanaged for everyone is totally not true.

Why are the Bass people going nuts because of increased number of fish that can be harvested. Muskies need to be harvested as well, but musky people will say the opposite. Why stock fish no one can keep. O let’s blame pike, smallies, and muskies for the decline in walleyes numbers. O wait there is no decline!! Mille Lacs is close to huge population of people and receives a huge amount of fishing pressure compared to many other lakes. The lake is being mismanaged and that is my opinion and majority of others opinions. 

I just want the perch fishing to come back some and with all those big eyes in the lake it’s not going to happen!! I want to see the resorts make money and people passing fishing on to the next generation!!

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Sculpin

Sorry,  but I did not in fact "compare" any other lakes to Mille Lacs, I simply pointed out that if they profiled some of the major walleye lakes with hooking mortality the way they do Mille Lacs, that a cry would go up across the land, and perhaps people would take notice. Its only fair, and if the "science" is right, lets roll it out for all the lakes. Its gotta be good ???

Your points are well taken, but as I'm sure you know, summer "mortality" takes place everywhere,  as it does in winter. How many gut hooked 10" saugers do you suppose went back under the ice at LOTWS last winter ?? In fact, angling pressure at Red Lake, LOTWS, and Leech, season wide, is almost comparable to Mille Lacs, and in the case of Red, may have exceeded it.

I would also add, that I personally participated in a 2 year hooking mortality study on Mille Lacs. I fished as a volunteer, and we fished Rocks, Mud, and Sand, Live bait, as well as artificial baits. In a nutshell, each volunteer boat got a 25 gallon plastic tub, and an air horn. When you caught a fish, you placed it in the tub you had filled with surface  water, blew the horn ,and a boat would come and take your fish, measure it, ask how you caught it, and then throw it in their tub, and transport it to a net set up in the fishing area, the net was about 25ft deep, like a giant fish basket, and maybe 6 ft in diameter, with a big ring float attached to it. I think they kept them in there for at least 3 days, maybe 5, can't recall. Seemingly, nothing to eat, basically in a big bag. nothing ever came of it, but they "thought" they could prescribe lower mortality as a result. A total boondoggle.

At the end of the day you can't make this poop up. Most people have no idea of what a total cluster it's been at Mille Lacs for the last 20 years. Big fish eating little fish, ?? Guess what, this is about the third cycle of that scenario, with no end in sight.  They are learning as they go, and scratching their collective heads harder all the time. Zeeb's, water clarity, zooplankton, spiny water fleas, milfoil, cannibalization, perch cycles, et.al. On it goes. In addition, they can't agree with the Tribes about anything.......NOTHING. It's why they never agreed upon a safe harvest level this year. 

I do not care to speak to the creel folks. You are under no obligation to do so, and I have no ill will toward them, but its nothing more than a bunch of guesstimates, darts, Ouija, and tarot cards.  The blue ribbon panel notwithstanding. One gentleman on the north end has been doing it for decades, a good guy, and even he does believe the numbers, and nor should YOU.

Mille lacs will NEVER be more than a 2 fish lake, which is fine, but I hope they hurry, I'm not getting any younger..       

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BobT
19 hours ago, Sculpin said:

I would also add, that I personally participated in a 2 year hooking mortality study on Mille Lacs. I fished as a volunteer, and we fished Rocks, Mud, and Sand, Live bait, as well as artificial baits. In a nutshell, each volunteer boat got a 25 gallon plastic tub, and an air horn. When you caught a fish, you placed it in the tub you had filled with surface  water, blew the horn ,and a boat would come and take your fish, measure it, ask how you caught it, and then throw it in their tub, and transport it to a net set up in the fishing area, the net was about 25ft deep, like a giant fish basket, and maybe 6 ft in diameter, with a big ring float attached to it. I think they kept them in there for at least 3 days, maybe 5, can't recall. Seemingly, nothing to eat, basically in a big bag.

Placing a wild fish in such a small confined area could have in itself added more stress to the fish causing mortality to one that may have survived outside the jail. 

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gimruis
On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:46 PM, monstermoose78 said:

Why stock fish no one can keep.

Just because you can't or don't harvest them doesn't mean they aren't worth targeting.  Bass and musky anglers pursue their target species because they enjoy it, not because they want to harvest them.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Like it or not, that is the trend in today's modern fishing world.  Over harvest of our fish populations is exactly what has led to the decline of those species.  People need to get over the idea of targeting fish solely for the sake of keeping them (aka the meat hunters).

I see your point on the perch, and I agree.  They represent the food that a lot of fish in that lake like to eat and when they are not present in sustainable numbers, there are too many mouths to feed.

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ANYFISH2
2 hours ago, gimruis said:

  People need to get over the idea of targeting fish solely for the sake of keeping them (aka the meat hunters).

Sorry If this looks out of context.

I disagree with this part of your statement.

Harvesting fish for  Food is the most reasonable and excepted reason to fish.

To imply it not the right reason to fish is obsured.

Now, reguarding trying to protect species and populations, we should be happy to forgo our harvest to help the populations.  That is, if some are truly concerned for the fish, and not thier freezers.

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monstermoose78
7 hours ago, gimruis said:

Just because you can't or don't harvest them doesn't mean they aren't worth targeting.  Bass and musky anglers pursue their target species because they enjoy it, not because they want to harvest them.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Like it or not, that is the trend in today's modern fishing world.  Over harvest of our fish populations is exactly what has led to the decline of those species.  People need to get over the idea of targeting fish solely for the sake of keeping them (aka the meat hunters).

I see your point on the perch, and I agree.  They represent the food that a lot of fish in that lake like to eat and when they are not present in sustainable numbers, there are too many mouths to feed.

I release most of the fish I catch but I am a believer of keeping a big fish for the wall. Most musky and bass guys release them all anyways, so why not let someone keep what they think is a trophy fish. If you think I am a meat hunter you have not read many of the posts I have posted.

The bottom line is Mille Lacs messed up from to many big fish. Yes the fishing is amazing at this time, but the lake is out of whack. I keep fish about one out of ten trips and that’s to give my grandma some fresh fish. 

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grundy

I would like to post my opinion on Mille Lacs but nobody would like it so I will keep my mouth shut!! What about the fish net with all the dead walleyes in it? Yeah right!! Now you know what I'm talking about.

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Sculpin

The vast majority of people that fish do so to harvest a few fish. I think for the most part the days of the meat hunter, and freezer fillers  are gone. Very few people take the time and expense to arrange a trip, and then release all their fish,  Bass fishermen aside. However, if a bass tasted like a perch, or a walleye, or a crappie, they'd ALL be gone. 

The thing to be most concerned about is recruitment of young people to fish and hunt. I saw a news announcement from the DNR the other day stating fishing license sales are down 40,000 YOY. That's a huge number, and it's only going to get worse.  In addition, the average age of a fishing license buyer is getting pretty old. Same as deer hunting, duck hunting, and most other shooting sports.

Once politicians see the decline in the revenue,  and the voting block diminished, the more difficult it will become fund the DNR. That's why there is so much political apathy about things like Mille Lacs lake, metro politico's don't have a clue, don't care, and won't care. The liberal block doesn't care, won't ever care, nor would they go in their pocket to help.

Sorry for the rant, but it's the tip of a huge iceberg. Mille Lacs is the canary in the coal mine, more is on the way, take it to the bank.   

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PRO-V
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, grundy said:

I would like to post my opinion on Mille Lacs but nobody would like it so I will keep my mouth shut!! What about the fish net with all the dead walleyes in it? Yeah right!! Now you know what I'm talking about.

Agreed. I think it's also crazy that the current tribe killed the largest Souix village there was, drove them almost completely out of Minnesota and built a casino near the site. Now it's claimed we took their ancestoral ground and resources. Maybe they should pack up and move back to Canada and Wisconsin and let the Sioux have their land back. I'm so tired of this crap I could scream.

Edited by PRO-V
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ANYFISH2

If you think netting is the reason for the decline in walleyes or the reason for poor managment, we can discuss that.  They certainly are a factor in all of this.

Make sure sure to keep the discussion about the nets, and policy, please don't turn it into a racial discussion!

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PRO-V
30 minutes ago, ANYFISH2 said:

If you think netting is the reason for the decline in walleyes or the reason for poor managment, we can discuss that.  They certainly are a factor in all of this.

Make sure sure to keep the discussion about the nets, and policy, please don't turn it into a racial discussion!

Was not turning it into a racial discussion. I just feel we should all be equal in all things as fellow countryman. If groups get to pick and choose when they have the equal rights and when they have extra or special rights then we are not all really treated equally are we? I have always respected people of different races and expect the same in return.

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ANYFISH2

Sorry Pro-v, did not try to insinuate that you did.  

Just felt like the thread could go the wrong way.  

 

 

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PRO-V

I hear ya. I view this as a political issue not a racial issue. I just feel that until all U.S. citizens are treated the same we will not have true equality.

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delcecchi
On 7/7/2018 at 4:06 PM, Sculpin said:

.Vermilion is a prime example, I think their allowable harvest is something like 65,000. Hooking mortality alone would wipe that out..

They do take hooking mortality into consideration on Vermilion. 

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Sculpin

Interesting...What was hooking mortality in 2017, and what is it thus far in 2018 ?

I just spent two weeks on Vermilion, and I did see a number of floaters on the east end. 

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walros

I am no fish biologist but I look at what North Dakota does with their stocking as well as our fishery stocking and notice one difference that may have an impact on our lakes.  When North Dakota stocks a lake with prime predator fish (walleye, northern, bass, etc.) they also stock bait fish (minnows, perch, etc.), this may be something that would help the stocked fish have a greater chance of survival short and long term. So my question is, why don't our state biologists do the same? I would like to think that having a abundance of food would make the predator fish stocking more likely to be successful.

 

Okay, I am interested in hearing some of the biologists responses.

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tfin

So Gimruis has a problem with meat hunters on the lake.  Then he should be promoting the use of cameras instead of guns when out hunting birds or animals.  If you want to fish for sport and look down on those that fish for food then go get a hand held fishing game and sit on the shore.  Believing something is the truth doesn't mean that it is.  You can say the lake isn't mismanaged all you want and that the surveys work because the people using them have advanced degrees.  I work for people in construction that have degrees but don't know crap about what actually happens on a construction site.  The worst thing to happen to electricians is schools putting out project management courses.  Now instead of people with practical knowledge running jobs we have people schooled in theory with big ideas and egos to match.  You Gimruis seem to be the same.  Saying that people shouldn't fish for food and saying they are the problem is insanity.  You have no place in this conversation.

 

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Agronomist_at_IA

I think anybody can see that the food/forage base is or has declined in Mille lacs.......having a lot of large fish doesn't help it at all. I think they should thin the herd.

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monstermoose78

Let’s get them 22-27 inch fish out of the lake

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gimruis
On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:47 AM, tfin said:

So Gimruis has a problem with meat hunters on the lake.  Then he should be promoting the use of cameras instead of guns when out hunting birds or animals.  If you want to fish for sport and look down on those that fish for food then go get a hand held fishing game and sit on the shore.  Believing something is the truth doesn't mean that it is.  You can say the lake isn't mismanaged all you want and that the surveys work because the people using them have advanced degrees.  I work for people in construction that have degrees but don't know crap about what actually happens on a construction site.  The worst thing to happen to electricians is schools putting out project management courses.  Now instead of people with practical knowledge running jobs we have people schooled in theory with big ideas and egos to match.  You Gimruis seem to be the same.  Saying that people shouldn't fish for food and saying they are the problem is insanity.  You have no place in this conversation.

 

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

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Agronomist_at_IA
13 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Ok, so all the biologists, scientists, and compiled data is wrong and you're right.  Lets rape and pillage the lake until there's absolutely nothing left.  Great idea tfin.  In fact, maybe when the walleyes are all gone we should harvest all the muskies, smallmouth bass, and pike in the lake too.  And then blame the DNR for it.  Go fly a kite

 

Well......The issue is that the biologists, scientists, and others have looked at the compiled data regardless if the data is good or bad, and have no consensus on what is really wrong or going on or how to fix. So out of confusion and not understanding on what's going on they've taken a course of action which doesn't seem to be working. Leaving a bunch of large walleyes in a lake with low forage doesn't work to well. If young recruitment of walleye isn't happening, maybe they should look at trying something else.....

 

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bbfenatic
On 7/12/2018 at 8:08 PM, Sculpin said:

The vast majority of people that fish do so to harvest a few fish. I think for the most part the days of the meat hunter, and freezer fillers  are gone. Very few people take the time and expense to arrange a trip, and then release all their fish,  Bass fishermen aside. However, if a bass tasted like a perch, or a walleye, or a crappie, they'd ALL be gone. 

The thing to be most concerned about is recruitment of young people to fish and hunt. I saw a news announcement from the DNR the other day stating fishing license sales are down 40,000 YOY. That's a huge number, and it's only going to get worse.  In addition, the average age of a fishing license buyer is getting pretty old. Same as deer hunting, duck hunting, and most other shooting sports.

Once politicians see the decline in the revenue,  and the voting block diminished, the more difficult it will become fund the DNR. That's why there is so much political apathy about things like Mille Lacs lake, metro politico's don't have a clue, don't care, and won't care. The liberal block doesn't care, won't ever care, nor would they go in their pocket to help.

Sorry for the rant, but it's the tip of a huge iceberg. Mille Lacs is the canary in the coal mine, more is on the way, take it to the bank.   

 

I agree...recruiting young people is the key but keep in mind these millennials tend to be more on the "no limit"  catch and release only side of the argument and you couple that with the fact that our DNR is recruiting these same millennials to work for them....so it makes it harder to sway both sides of the same fence.  IMO they should cut all limits of all species in half state-wide immediately, including all boundary lakes/rivers like LOW and see what the fish population looks like in 10 yrs...this includes keeping any local slot limits in place plus opening Mille Lacs back up to a reasonable keep. Half a limit is plenty to keep for those of us who enjoy a fish fry now and then IMO.

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ozzie
On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:46 PM, monstermoose78 said:

Let’s get them 22-27 inch fish out of the lake

 

yeah lets get those prime breeders out of the lake!!!  🙄  some of the stuff said on the Mille Lacs situation is just unbelievable...

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monstermoose78

No the most productive females are 18-22 inches. 

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gimruis
On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 3:34 PM, bbfenatic said:

recruiting young people is the key but keep in mind these millennials tend to be more on the "no limit"  catch and release only

 

Totally true.  The younger generation is far more interested in protecting the resource and the older generation is far more interested in meat hunting.  Its definitely a generational gap thing.

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