Dnr's future plan for walleye slot?

[Bandersnatch]

10 hours ago, Roosterslayer05 said:

First things first, the natives netted in 2013.  I lived on the lake that year and I saw natives netting.  It was such a late ice out that they didn't net as much as they wanted, but they did net.

 

1.  The estimate is pretty accurate.  The fall gill net survey estimates have been done for 50 years.  It's the baseline estimate.  If you have a better way then 50 years of data you let me know.   Also, the special population assessment's they do are a simple mark and recapture study.  The mathematics involved are simple, and they can figure out the error rate based on effort and the amount of fish tagged.  Example:  The estimate is 250,000 fish with a standard deviation of 25,000.  That means that mathematically there's a 68% chance that the population falls between 225,000 and 275,000 and there's a 95% chance the population falls between 200,000 and 300,000.  When both the special population assessment and the fall gill net survey are showing a population of around the same amount of fish, for years, you can conclude the walleyes are down.  Concluding otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.

2.  The D.N.R was forced to target the same size fish because of the quota being measured by "poundage".  The resorts didn't want a possible shutdown or a reduced bag limit for years.  The businesses pressured the DNR to allow as many walleyes to be kept as possible.  Since the quota is based on pounds the slot was geared towards smaller fish.  Instead of having a limit of one or two fish between, say, 20-23 inches the resorts wanted 4 smaller fish.  It's equal parts the resorts putting pressure and the DNR capitulating to that pressure.  Everyone is culpable here, including the resorts.

3.  The current hooking mortality estimate is based on a hooking mortality study that was done on Mille Lacs years ago.  You can find the article on google scholar. You can argue that the fishing "pressure" estimate might not be accurate, but the hooking mortality data based on the study appears to be sound.

1) You are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that for the 50 years that the netting survey has been done, I have dollars to doughnuts that the nets go in the same spot...........every year..........while the DNR talks about changes to the lake.....and does not change methods themselves.

2) So we agree on this point. Politics over Biology.

3) Show Me The Dead Fish (hard line in the sand on an estimate doesn't work for me)

33 minutes ago, tfin said:

IMO Mille and all the lakes in Minnesota that are in danger are that way because they are over fished period.  Whether it's netting or the fact that when 1 lake gets shut down another gets hammered.  Communication between anglers due to sites like this as well as all of the other advantages we have gained over the last 2 decades makes it easier for us to find fish and put them in the boat.  All of us that pull fish from a lake are to blame.  Blaming the dnr for being unable to make a difference is a poor mindset.  It's akin to blaming police for not being able to stop crime.  They can't stop crime but without them there would be a whole lot more.  Likewise, without the dnr,  the lakes would already be empty. 

A lot of us have nice boats and spare time to fish, some more than others but we all like to get out as much as possible.  We do it for fun and to put a little food on our table.  The tribes use their fish for consumption as well as to fuel their economy.  The problem as I see it is diversity.  If we cannot change our ways then we will continue to blame the dnr, tribes or once in a while, even ourselves.  Nobody thinks it's smart to invest all their money in a risky stock so they diversify.  The tribes need to find other ways to make money and diversify their income,  use money to get into manufacturing or something.  The common fisherman needs to catch and release, stop freezing fish and keep to the possession limit, and maybe find a different way to relax from time to time. 

The last thing is that with all of the social sites and networking, it's easy to lambast a group of people in relative safety(guilty myself from time to time).  Nobody takes advice that's given in the form of an insult.  Making a person see red while trying to get them to change their ways is useless.  Cooperation between the different groups of people fishing the lake is the only way to make a lasting change.  I feel bad for the businesses that depend on the lake but it's no different than what we all face with normal economic up and downs.  Many of us are tradesmen that have been laid off for long periods when the economy is down.  Some will travel away from their families to do what's needed during the rough years.  The tribes should be able to find different ways to make a living as well but it's up to them to make that decision.  One that won't be helped by a bunch of hate mail. 

 Some of that is very true, but then some of it is very Earned as well.

 

As an example, advertising how "We will have a Blue Ribbon Panel study this issue" and then what happens?

Said Blue Ribbon Panel is provided with the very same (two year old stale data by the way) data that was collected by the MNDNR to rehash it. The "Panel" did no testing themselves. Hell, did they even hit the lake? LOL!

To me? It was like going into the Dealership to buy a car, and having them run the "I'll have to take this to my Manager" game on you.

 

JMO

I was incorrect!

 

From the Rep. Sondra Erickson 15A - Legislative Update:

 

"Artificial bait such as Gulp is allowed"

 

 

[delcecchi]

So, what data do you think is incorrect?

[Bandersnatch]

17 minutes ago, delcecchi said:

So, what data do you think is incorrect?

I have no idea, and apparently neither does anyone else, since we have nothing to compare it to.

It would be like going into court, with only one side of the issue being presented.

 

[delcecchi]

So, you don't have any particular dispute with the data, except it must be wrong since it doesn't agree with your opinion.   "That's interesting "

[Bandersnatch]

14 hours ago, delcecchi said:

So, you don't have any particular dispute with the data, except it must be wrong since it doesn't agree with your opinion.   "That's interesting "

What is interesting is that you view my comment about A Sample Of One as "must be wrong".

 

[delcecchi]

7 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

What is interesting is that you view my comment about A Sample Of One as "must be wrong".

 

I was characrterizing your comment about the data.  Do you think the DNR data about fish population is correct or not?  You seemed to be insinuating that, but didn't come out and say it.  So, what is your opinion about the accuracy of the DNR estimates of walleye population? 

"That's interesting" was my way of expressing doubt about your statement.  

So, what do you think about the walleye population?  And why do you think what you do? 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, delcecchi said:

I was characrterizing your comment about the data.  Do you think the DNR data about fish population is correct or not?  You seemed to be insinuating that, but didn't come out and say it.  So, what is your opinion about the accuracy of the DNR estimates of walleye population? 

"That's interesting" was my way of expressing doubt about your statement.  

So, what do you think about the walleye population?  And why do you think what you do? 

You have already asked this, and I have already answered it.

[delcecchi]

2 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You have already asked this, and I have already answered it.

Ok, I reviewed back, all your posts in this thread.  You think the DNR population estimates are bogus, it is clear.  But, maybe I missed it, you never said what you think the population is.  Is the actual population higher or lower than what the DNR says? 

I guess you believe that test netting in the same location every year is invalid, so how should the locations be chosen each year?   

[leech~~]

4 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

You have already asked this, and I have already answered it.

Bander, dude you can't get away from Del. Without some of the old Gang in Silly town like P Floyd, BigDave and alike to bicker with all day he has left the ST limits and searching for something to make his day go by. This is now 12 pages of re-hashed same old same old.

Did you know that Brain worm and Global Warming are killing our Moose and not Wolves! Read the DNR reports!

[delcecchi]

18 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Bander, dude you can't get away from Del. Without some of the old Gang in Silly town like P Floyd, BigDave and alike to bicker with all day he has left the ST limits and searching for something to make his day go by. This is now 12 pages of re-hashed same old same old.

Did you know that Brain worm and Global Warming are killing our Moose and not Wolves! Read the DNR reports!

So, leech, what do you think the fish population of Mille Lacs is compared to what the DNR says?

There is a lot of loose talk.  So asking people what they think the answer is seems fair to me. 

[Fowlmouth]

 The big thing these days is lead core trolling in the middle of the summer. They drag walleyes at 2 mph threw the thermocline. Most die. I know guys that go out and boat 100 plus in the summer that way. Ban lead core as well, or better yet shut the whole lake down for a year or two.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Fowlmouth

[ANYFISH2]

1 hour ago, Fowlmouth said:

 The big thing these days is lead core trolling in the middle of the summer. They drag walleyes at 2 mph threw the thermocline. Most die. I know guys that go out and boat 100 plus in the summer that way. Ban lead core as well, or better yet shut the whole lake down for a year or two.

There rarely is development of a thermocline in Mille Lacs, FYI.  Lake is mixed throughout the year by wind and it relative shallow nature.

Sorry I don't buy it.

[BartmanMN]

DNR dropped the No Live bait rule for 2016.

[leech~~]

56 minutes ago, BartmanMN said:

DNR dropped the No Live bait rule for 2016.

Oh thans god that will help save the lake!

[Bandersnatch]

Good. Now the people that want to fish Panfish on the lake don't have to be penalized for the DNR's screw ups.

Actually, now that we are on the topic again, why not re-institute the One Walleye Over 28" as well?

If predation is what the DNR claims it is, then thinning out the large Walleye would only help right?

[city slicker]

This is ridiculous, how can this be possible? There have been how many studies and experts that came to the conclusion that was set. Now...city  

[eyechoholic]

They must have gotten an ear full from portside and all the other bate shops. I think it's great that initial decision was B.S.  I'm looking foward to going up there again now and catching and releasing tons of walleyes. But that artificial scare would have kept me away. How about ban lead coring walleyes from being yanked out of 30 feet of water at water skiing speeds instead. For one it takes zero skill to do and it's not even enjoyable

 

[Bass Thumb]

Now that live bait is allowed, the DNR is just going to close the season that much sooner. 

The no-live-bait rule, designed to reduce hooking mortality, was specifically intended to extend the season as long as possible. Maybe it wouldn't have even needed closing, which was the hope.

Now a closed season in late-summer, early-fall is all but assured. 

[JigSawJimmy]

This live bait ban reversal is disgusting. Pandering to a few wallets and local politicians looking for voting grease.

Didn't anybody take Spock seriously when he made that profound statement,  "the needs of the many..."?

The lake is an All You Can Eat Buffet. Everyone is selling a plate and everyone comes back for seconds.

Cash is king.

[delcecchi]

Be fun to watch to see what happens long about july or august....

How big are the DNR's cojones? 

[ANYFISH2]

Here is my take, if the DNR would start managing the lake with a little more biology and less politics the lake would recover much quicker.

The Mille Lacs resort/business community can look into the mirror with shame, Imo!  When was the last time a slot or regulation was imposed or proposed that they didn't scream and holler about.  It is always about how it will impact their bottom dollar.  Guess what Mille Lacs, the pandering to help you squeak by has a MAJOR role in the demise of your lake.  You force those, you seem to think cant do Thier job right, to soften regs and thus prolong the downward trend.  It is a shame.

And to think the likes of Twin Pines et al... blame the natives, sheese!

[JigSawJimmy]

Solid post.

These folks are slinging haymakers just to have the last few steaks in the freezer

Next on the docket :

Mille Lacs Lake Residents v.  Minnesota anglers

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Slot limits didn't seem to save this one in Garrison, MN last week.....

[leech~~]

15 minutes ago, Tom Sawyer said:

Slot limits didn't seem to save this one in Garrison, MN last week.....

Ha, There it is!

[eyechoholic]

10 hours ago, leech~~ said:

Ha, There it is!

Does that count against there quota? It's at the least a 600 pounder there!

[delcecchi]

Doesn't count.  Was from before the SC case and the quotas, so is grandfathered...

[JigSawJimmy]

Other places I've seen people who try to talk objectively but are discounted by the reasoning they lack a "dog in the fight".

What does that mean exactly? Because one does not have a paycheck tied directly to the lake therefore all but excluding one's voice and taking on ridicule? 

I think those that do not have a financial tie have the greater position in being non bias and have validity to their opinion and curiosity.

No emotion, dispassion, anger, hate, bank account or any other contaminants to clout view.

[delcecchi]

13 hours ago, JigSawJimmy said:

Other places I've seen people who try to talk objectively but are discounted by the reasoning they lack a "dog in the fight".

What does that mean exactly? Because one does not have a paycheck tied directly to the lake therefore all but excluding one's voice and taking on ridicule? 

I think those that do not have a financial tie have the greater position in being non bias and have validity to their opinion and curiosity.

No emotion, dispassion, anger, hate, bank account or any other contaminants to clout view.

I interpret "I don't have a dog in this fight " as meaning they have no personal benefit associated with the issue.  Like saying they have no conflict of interest. 

Certainly businesses have to worry more about the short term, or there  might not be a long term for them.

[fishhook34]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 6:46 PM, Sculpin said:

Or by hook and line, like the rest of the angling world, now wouldn't that be a most novel approach.!!

Anyone know about Bayport King Plant fishing, carppies or white bass.

[delcecchi]

Surprise.  Anglers already over the quota.  State refuses to abide by agreement, leaves season open.   Shows what the priorities are.