Fon du Lac Gill Nets in Vermillion

[panfried]

Just read an article in the Outdoor News stating that the Fon du Lac tribe has now decided they want to excercise their right to gill net Vermillion this year for Walleyes due to the low numbers on Mille Lacs.

I don't even fish Vermillion and this upsets me. Yes, it is a small number of fish at only 2,500 lbs allowed but once they start when will they stop? When it too is yielding poor numbers? Then what? Move on to the next lake and do the same thing? Maybe I am way off base with my thoughts as to how this will play out but I am curious as to what everyone else thinks.

[Bigfatbert]

Yup , they will now be exercising there given right to net on the big V. Another lake to bight the dust ? Not sure at this point ,time will tell.

Although this being a new story to read about, netting has been going on for years on the lake by local tribal members each and every spring ,for not only walleye , but for any brand of fish that the lake has , including Muskie.. I personally have seen local tribal members doing such in the spring , and it's not a pretty sight to see all those girls in the nets. Some members may be somewhat picky as to size taken home , but others are not ,and many 20 plus inch fish are being taken by this method each and every spring already. It does get old to see slot sizes , and limits given to us fishermen , and to abide by our given laws and regs , just to see all those big girls taken out of the lakes in a net.... Things are just not right.

[delcecchi]

Then tell the president to stop the harvest. The country agreed, as a condition of the natives giving up rights to the land, to allow the natives to continue to harvest fish and game subject to the pleasure of the president, or something like that. He has a phone and a pen. The president is the only one who can change the situation, although negotiation and compromise might help.

[theharvester]

I thought all men were created equal but i guess not

[Sculpin]

The treaty's are at the pleasure of the President, correct. But there is NOTHING in the treaty's to suggest that gill nets are part of the plan for harvest. At some point the DNR, Governor, somebody, needs to stiffen their collective spines and say no nets.

I do not contest the treaty's, nor do I begrudge the Natives their fair share.

I simply challenge them to go out and catch their fish like the rest of the angling public. They know it would be IMPOSSIBLE to achieve their quota via hook and line.

No nets, particularly during spawn.

[trolloni]

The president hates walleye[according to a thread in silly town awhile back!]dont look for much there!i dont think anyone envisioned a gill net as a tool for fishing during the 1800s either !If its only 2500 lbs it would be acceptable ,[big big lake!]i think i have a bigger problem with the dnr taking millions of walleyes [probably billions over the last 20 years]out of Pike river hatchery and sending them all over, instead of putting them back into big v!

[Pzswenj]

My mindset is the courts have visited and ruled on the issue, and that's that. They are a sovereign nation, and our country gave them rights in a treaty that resulted in our country acquiring the rights to the land we now all take for granted as being available to us. In exchange, they were given the right to hunt and fish, among other things, in these lands. It is their right, and I don't begrudge that fact.

If we are arguing the country could not have foreseen gill nets, apply the same logic to the 2nd amendment, and and decide if you still feel that is a reasonable argument to make.

[gunner55]

^^^^^^^I have to agree

[TomWehler]

As mentioned this has been hashed over an the rulers that rule this stuff have decided / put a stamp on it, but a few things should be amended.

*No modern spearing equipment, old school TIME PERIOD of treaty spearing equipment only.

**Treaty netting / spearing that is allowed should be done AFTER spawn an during open season like everyone else DNR rules over for health of lake.

***Gill netting used should be of appropriate size for walleye, tullies, whitefish... ONLY...(Small / Medium) mesh.

Take it or leave it.

As I read in articles, DNR feel not to many netters will show up an take could be minimal to limit weight give or take but feel even if at full tare weight 2500 LB lake will be just fine.

It is more the how an when it is done that is messed up.

Maybe not using casino, golf field or marina can also provide a buzz kill.

Pre- election letters, phone calls and in person meetings can work.

Now on the lighter side: Fat bottom girls make the rock'n world go round!

Keep on Rocken!

Tommy

[cartway]

Three things I wonder about:

1. Just because you have a right does it mean it is responsible to exercise that right? Is this good stewardship of the resource? Is this band in need of the subsistence?

2. Does the DNR consider the conflict in logic of having a slot that denies fish to the general public that will end up in nets?

3. What happens to all the other game fish species other than walleye caught in the nets?

In my opinion this just leads to unfortunate outcomes for the resource and relationships.

[Sculpin]

As far as what is known as "by-catch" species netted other than walleyes, those fish must be turned over to Tribal Officials, who will in turn use them for the elderly Nutrition program. (Outdoor News 4/3/15.)

Down at Mille Lacs, by-catch fish, particularly pike/muskies, were often times dumped back in the lake, so as not to go against the quota for that species.

Doubt there will be a pike or similar poundage quota at Vermilion, until and unless the other tribes pull away from Mille Lacs and declare to fish on Vermillion. Then you will see some real gill net "fishing".

[RuddyDuck]

At least they told the truth last year. They said they wouldn't spear it and they aren't.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/248998921.html

If all they take is 2500lbs, then it probably isn't a big deal, but it does seem like once the ball gets rolling, the pounds always go up.

[delcecchi]

This is fon du lac not bois forte. Remember this next time you are at casino in duluth or Black Bear. Maybe take your casino trade to Fortune Bay instead.

They have a legal right to net.

[Reid Saarela]

After looking at many forums about this issue, all I have seen are people complaining about how the walleye fishing has gotten remarkably worse on vermilion in the past 10 years. That doesn't have much to do with the fond du lac tribe netting now but have people on this forum noticed a decline in the walleye fishing the in the last 10 years? Also, I know it is hard to say, but how big of an impact do you guys think the fond du lac netting will have on the walleyes. One thing I have noticed in the last 2-3 years is a lot more dink (8-12) inch walleye.

[Sculpin]

Not to worry a bit. The DNR assured everyone that would listen that the gillnetting/ spearing/slots/management debacle's impact on Mille Lacs would be negligible. This assurance has been going on for 15 years.

Why, only today it was announced that we could harvest one fish from the once great fishery.

They acknowledge that are no fish in the lake within the harvestable slot, but people will still come in droves.

NOT

[delcecchi]

It is beginning to more and more look like it was the slots that were the problem and not the netting. The West end of Vermilion has had poor walleye recruitment for years, and no netting. Folks have had to go east to catch eaters, and now the east is slipping. And not because of netting.

Quote:

DNR: Lake Vermilion walleye count down

Marshall Helmberger

While Vermilion still enjoys a healthy walleye population, anglers may have to work a bit harder this summer to score a limit like this.

REGIONAL—The impact of a couple weak year classes may finally be catching up with Lake Vermilion’s walleye population.

The latest gillnetting survey conducted by the Department of Natural Resources tallied a lakewide average of 10.8 fish per net, a sharp reduction from the 18.3 fish-per-net average in 2013.

While a catch of 10.8 walleye per net would be great news on most Minnesota lakes, for a powerhouse walleye producer like Vermilion, it’s the lowest number since 1993.

“It reminds me a bit of the saying on Prairie Home Companion,” said Duane Williams, large lake specialist at the DNR’s area headquarters in Tower. “But you can’t always be above average.”

Yet Vermilion had been on a roll lately, enjoying consistently above-average walleye numbers for almost two decades. Indeed, walleye numbers have run above the long-term average of just under 15 walleye-per-net for 13 of the last 18 years.

According to Williams, a weak 2009-year class is having a noticeable impact on the numbers currently, but he said that’s all part of the normal fluctuation within fish populations. Cool springs and summers tend to reduce walleye reproduction, said Williams, and the very cool summer weather in 2009 apparently followed that pattern.

At the same time, DNR test nets captured fewer walleye from the strong 2010 and 2011-year classes, which had comprised a hefty share of Vermilion’s walleye population in the 2013 census. Williams said fishing pressure could be one reason for the drop in those numbers, since fish from those year classes were the most sought by anglers over the past year or two. But the DNR’s creel survey last summer showed fewer anglers plying Vermilion’s waters, and recorded an estimated harvest of 45,400 pounds, well below the lake’s safe harvest level of 65,000-pounds.

Williams said last year’s late ice-out and continued cold weather in May and June likely suppressed some fishing pressure last year.

“I’m not too concerned about it at this point,” said Williams.

And Williams said the survey did find a silver lining in the 2012-year class, which appears to be very strong. While those fish may be a bit small to attract most anglers this summer, he said they could be in the “eater-sized” range by fall.

The survey also showed that Vermilion maintains a strong population of larger fish, no doubt a result of the protected slot that kicks in at 18 inches. Walleye numbers in the 19-22 inch range were well above average and helped push the average size of a Lake Vermilion walleye to 14.3 inches, itself well above the long-term mean.

[Sculpin]

Interesting to note the remark "Vermilion maintains a strong population of larger fish"

In hindsight, It is believed that a significant contributing factor to the collapse at Mille Lacs, was the year after year accumulation of big fish in the lake. The resultant cannibalism of the smaller fish, reduction in the perch population, collapse of the forage base, and the overall imbalance of the fishery were all contributing factors.

Gill nets will in fact be a factor if the other bands declare to net on Vermillion. It's disruptive to the spawn, plain and simple. There is a reason the season is closed statewide during the spawning period. Let the band have their fish, but it's a hook and line fishery. If the Fond Du Lac Band can go out and catch 2500 LBS of fish, I tip my hat to them.

[delcecchi]

Interesting to note the remark "Vermilion maintains a strong population of larger fish"

In hindsight, It is believed that a significant contributing factor to the collapse at Mille Lacs, was the year after year accumulation of big fish in the lake. The resultant cannibalism of the smaller fish, reduction in the perch population, collapse of the forage base, and the overall imbalance of the fishery were all contributing factors.

Gill nets will in fact be a factor if the other bands declare to net on Vermillion. It's disruptive to the spawn, plain and simple. There is a reason the season is closed statewide during the spawning period. Let the band have their fish, but it's a hook and line fishery. If the Fond Du Lac Band can go out and catch 2500 LBS of fish, I tip my hat to them.

The reason the season is closed during the spawn is historical, not scientific. And it isn't up to the DNR how they take their fish, that was settled in court. Sorry to say.

[Sculpin]

It may be "historical" as you say, but lets please not bring science into play. The DNR has been employing what they believe to be "science" on Mille Lacs for the last 15 years. It has been tagging, electroshocking, gill netting, spring assessments, fall assessments, creel census, fairy dust, and blue ribbon panels to no avail. They just admitted they failed with the slots.

If you really believe taking spawning fish during the spawn is not disruptive you have not been paying much attention to fisheries management history. Is wiping out spawning pan fish a good thing ? Bass on beds ? Why do you think Saganaga/Seagull has been closed for years during the spawn, it was a slaughter for decades. These fish need protection. The reason the Bands gillnet during the spawn is because it's the ONLY time they can achieve their harvest quota's. If they had to hook and line it like the general fishing population they would never get it done.

[delcecchi]

It may be "historical" as you say, but lets please not bring science into play. The DNR has been employing what they believe to be "science" on Mille Lacs for the last 15 years. It has been tagging, electroshocking, gill netting, spring assessments, fall assessments, creel census, fairy dust, and blue ribbon panels to no avail. They just admitted they failed with the slots.

If you really believe taking spawning fish during the spawn is not disruptive you have not been paying much attention to fisheries management history. Is wiping out spawning pan fish a good thing ? Bass on beds ? Why do you think Saganaga/Seagull has been closed for years during the spawn, it was a slaughter for decades. These fish need protection. The reason the Bands gillnet during the spawn is because it's the ONLY time they can achieve their harvest quota's. If they had to hook and line it like the general fishing population they would never get it done.

The DNR themselves has said there is no scientific basis for the seasons being what they are.

Sag and Seagull were closed to protect a segment of trophy fish. The overall population was not threatened.

Red lake was gill netted all year, quite successfully.

[creepworm]

If you really believe taking spawning fish during the spawn is not disruptive you have not been paying much attention to fisheries management history.

Ya, and fishing in the Dakotas is down right terrible. Probably why boat ramps are full of pickups and boat trailers with MN license plates.

[Sculpin]

History has shown that Red Lake has been gill netted "quite successfully", you nailed that one Del. Never any net harm done up that way.

They tried to maintain the commercial fishery at Red with hook and line harvest, they could not do it, so they dropped the net's back in. Time will tell how that fishery plays back out. In addition, the hook and liners have Upper Red Lake right at the edge of the harvest limit. So perhaps there is no "right way" but I'll say again, if the Tribes had to harvest their quota via hook and line they could not do it. I do not begrudge them their fish, but gill netting is not the way to fish. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

[jigginjim]

Vermillion is the tribes next lake to ruin the fishing. Then the tribe will walk in buy out all the resorts and cabin owners. It will happen to Milles Lacs in the next two to three years. I will bet money on that, there you go guys keep spending your hard earned money in the casinos, giving the tribes money for court cases.

May be we should stop buying fishing licenses, maybe that would wake the Capital morons.... they dictate the DNR..

[laker1]

The Sag-Seagull harvest got out of hand and in a small area potential is present to harvest a high percentage of big walleye in the lakes.

South Dakota is a different type fishery in more fertile water.

One of the big reasons to have seasons is to spread the catch of so called surplus fish over a entire year,not a few days.

What the tribe takes at present is a drop in the bucket and is insignificant. The future take if increased,than it may be a different story.

[mwal]

Read up on South Dakota. Most of their waters are put and take stocked fish other than the big Mo etc

[creepworm]

Read up on South Dakota. Most of their waters are put and take stocked fish other than the big Mo etc

Not accurate, not at all accurate.

This year they stocked more lakes than normal due to the lower water levels since 2012 and the poor hatches that resulted, but prior to that it was a monitor fish levels and supplement with stocking only if the lakes fell below management goals, which was rare.

Stocking reports for nesd

2013

http://gfp.sd.gov/fishing-boating/tacklebox/lake-surveys/northeast-lakes/docs/2013StockingNE.pdf

2012

http://gfp.sd.gov/fishing-boating/tacklebox/lake-surveys/northeast-lakes/docs/2012StockingNE.pdf

2011

http://gfp.sd.gov/fishing-boating/tacklebox/lake-surveys/northeast-lakes/docs/2011StockingNE.pdf

Please note, the more pressured lakes are rarely stocked, and when they are it is not anywhere near "put and take" numbers.

[upnorth]

Not to worry a bit. The DNR assured everyone that would listen that the gillnetting/ spearing/slots/management debacle's impact on Mille Lacs would be negligible. This assurance has been going on for 15 years.

Why, only today it was announced that we could harvest one fish from the once great fishery.

They acknowledge that are no fish in the lake within the harvestable slot, but people will still come in droves.

NOT

The MNDNR has no say in the tribes fishing. They don't set the quota, they don't get to say how the tribes can fish. The most they can hope for is to negotiate with the tribe to come to something compromise on how many fish the tribes and how many the anglers take.

Part of the reason the lakes collapses is they are trying to keep anglers happy and let them take some fish out of the lakes.

This is a federal matter not a state matter. The Treaty's were not made with the state of Minnesota, they were with the federal govt. If you want to get your thoughts and opinions to someone who can do something the President and maybe your congress critters. Carping about the Governor and the DNR is wasting time and energy.

[delcecchi]

Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken, along with the reps,

Walz, maybe help

Kline, maybe help

Paulsen

McCollum

Ellison ANFW

Emmer

Peterson

Nolan who ought to be doing something but won't .

[eyeguy 54]

sheesh people, c and r those silly eyes and eat gills and crappies. much better! lol

[Cliff Wagenbach]

sheesh people, c and r those silly eyes and eat gills and crappies. much better! lol

That may be all we will be able to keep and eat in 10 years!

Cliff