Too much pressure!?!

[Bureaucrat]

I like this statewide reduction in limits concept. My father-in-law has been saying it for years now already. Take all the limits and cut them in half. (well pike might be a problem (1.5) but lets reduce everything.) Lots of people drive 5-8 hours to the "hot lake" because they want their kids to catch something when they fish.....not just stare at a bobber all day. Those that say it will hurt tourism and I can't feed my family on half a limit.....well then you will have to bring the family along and teach them how to fish....tourists-market to them that the fishing is great, not the harvest and they will come....if not then pressure is reduced! Resorts might have to make a few concessions in the overall plan as do the local sportsmen.

If we develop a problem of too many fish in a given lake we can regulate an increased harvest a lot easier than decreases in the public eye anyway.

Exactly.

What people don't understand is that if limits aren't pulled back, there won't be any decent fishing at all. It'll devolve into MN deer hunting, where limits are liberal but game is scarce. If the options are a legit shot at two fish vs a legal limit of four with no chance of getting a bite, I'll take two every day.

You're exactly right on managing up off the lower limit to address local issues vs the other way around.

I fished a catch and release only lake over Christmas, and I took home more pictures of 20"+ walleyes in one hour than I have in two seasons.

[laker1]

Open winters like this many lakes are really getting over harvested.

[halad]

The DNR says that the good fishing early takes up lots of the winter quota well close the lake from November 1st. to January 1st. This might hurt the resorts a bit but not as much as if the bite goes to hell because of lack of fish. The summer usually takes care of itself because of the wind causes lots of days that fishing is impossible. Last summer was an exception. Last Memorial weekend was solid boats on the east and south shore and the fishing was good.

[walleye34]

Johnny or Kelly

in my post where I talked about limiting road passes I know you guys dont run roads but Johnny you said you were a director of the Red Lake Assoc. I assume that is resorts and businesses? how strong is that organization?

My comment was could you get everybody to band togather and sell less road passes or would that be a pipe dream since all the revenue involved? I am a wheelhouse owner and I would be willing to pay a little more have a little less traffic and have wheelhouse spots a little more spread out. which you could do with less traffic. I always go out of the same resort( I wont say the name because that's not what it is about) and last year it was like pulling into a KOA campground. wheelhouse slots every 30 ft. and guess what the fishing sucked! the next day we found a guide services own spur roads plunked down all by ourselves and probably had the best evening of walleye fishing I have ever had. all it took was getting away from the KOA campground of wheelhouses. you would make a road pass reservation just like having to reserve a fish house or cabin?? Maybe the fee is double so $20/day but then the spots are not so crowded, you go in for lunch you dont wait for 1.5 hours to get a spot at the bar! for the guys who say this is a public land public lake....yep it is and there is a public access on the river that's all yours. you are paying to access the property to the road system. if you dont want to do that all public is welcome at any time but just cant cut across resort X's land. now if they do get on the lake by all means the water is public and they can drive on those ice roads! but red lake is a rare situation where in the winter there really is no public access.

[traveler]

Johnny or Kelly

in my post where I talked about limiting road passes I know you guys dont run roads but Johnny you said you were a director of the Red Lake Assoc. I assume that is resorts and businesses? how strong is that organization?

My comment was could you get everybody to band togather and sell less road passes or would that be a pipe dream since all the revenue involved?

I think that's the reality of it. Great thought though.

[Getanet]

My comment was could you get everybody to band togather and sell less road passes or would that be a pipe dream since all the revenue involved? I am a wheelhouse owner and I would be willing to pay a little more have a little less traffic and have wheelhouse spots a little more spread out. which you could do with less traffic.

Not to single this post out exclusively, but are you going to be OK with the idea of less road passes if you're one of the people who get turned away?

A lot of people have suggested limiting wheel house access, either by capping the number of houses or pricing people out of the market. It's usually followed by talk of how they'd appreciate less people near them and presumably better fishing - almost like they're certain their proposal wouldn't impact them and they'd still be able to access the lake.

[DTro]

Too much greed in the world to expect a bunch of private business to follow through on such a thing. Even with detailed logs, all it takes is one to cook the books and line the cash register and the flood gates would open.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

My comment was could you get everybody to band together and sell less road passes or would that be a pipe dream since all the revenue involved? I am a wheelhouse owner and I would be willing to pay a little more have a little less traffic and have wheelhouse spots a little more spread out. which you could do with less traffic.

This is something that no matter what I say someone will be mad but what the ever since I am no longer in the business what can someone do? Take my birthday away?

It would be hard to get everyone together. They tried with the cost of road passes for this winter and that went no where. There are some pretty major differences in how things are done on the lake between the roads along the east/north side (Waskish area) and the south shore. Along the Waskish side the roads try to roughly plan out the entire winter season so they are always moving to fresh ice over the entire season. Don't fish out the entire area your road goes to the first 3 weeks because you have nothing left for the rest of the year. The fishermen coming in Feb. are just as important as the fishermen for first ice. The roads also try to keep some separation between the roads and not cross roads back and forth. That is especially important in an emergency situation. If a call comes in that there is an emergency on road AA everyone can respond to road AA and start trying to find the emergency. If road AA crosses road CC then the person having the emergency may have gone on the lake on road AA and crossed over to road CC without knowing it. So the responders are looking on road AA when the emergency is really on road CC. Also along the Waskish side The roads respect each other and each stays in their own "area". That respect is not just to the operator of the other road but the fishermen on the other road. If road AA sends its customers over to fish along road CC it is not very fair to the fishermen on road CC that they are suddenly in a crowd. Also when road AA pushes into road CC then road CC has to move to find room so it bangs into road EE and on across the lake every road is changing it's plans. Once the respect between the roads breaks down chaos starts.

Quote:

I am a wheelhouse owner and I would be willing to pay a little more have a little less traffic and have wheelhouse spots a little more spread out. which you could do with less traffic.

That is what Beacon's tried this year. 50 season passes @ $250 a year whether you are someone with a wheel house or a day tripper. I think it has worked very well. The fishermen are more spread out and everyone is happier. It cost Beacons a lot of money in road fees this year but I think it will pay off in the future with returning customers. I have had fishermen tell me that next year they are getting a pass at Beacons just to get away from the crowding.

[BringAnExtension]

On another thread, this is the response to someone mentioning reaching the limit for walleyes.

"Just tell them you are fishing for crappies, perch and pike."

It is going to be hard to fix a problem when there are many people that think this is perfectly OK.

[Fishalittle]

How are they going to get a pass next year if the 50 are sold out now and all wish to return next year? Won't Beacons give those that had the pass this year first chance at it next year? Or will it be a free for all available on a certain date? Or will they sell more passes?

I personally was on the fence with this for a long time and did not purchase one...used a road just to the south and so far had a great season....but may regret that in future years if I can't get one later???

Only hiccup we ran into was when the parking lot was full and we had to go elsewhere for storage.

It will be interesting to see how this trial run works out in the end....and if others will join the idea?

[dj2quick35]

How are they going to get a pass next year if the 50 are sold out now and all wish to return next year? Won't Beacons give those that had the pass this year first chance at it next year? Or will it be a free for all available on a certain date? Or will they sell more passes?

I personally was on the fence with this for a long time and did not purchase one...used a road just to the south and so far had a great season....but may regret that in future years if I can't get one later???

Only hiccup we ran into was when the parking lot was full and we had to go elsewhere for storage.

It will be interesting to see how this trial run works out in the end....and if others will join the idea?

[Jmlsmp]

At the end of the day if all the resorts got together (that never going to happen) and raised the rate to $50 or only allowed so many people out of each access, another business person would open up another set of roads because there would be demand that the person could supply to give that person a desired profit to make it happen

[RIPN LIPS]

We were just up at Beacons fishing last weekend and it was great, Quiet, fish were biting, pretty much had the whole north end of the lake to are selves, ect. Think of it this way..the resort hunts down the best bite they can, they plow a road to it for there day shacks and sleepers and then come friday night and saturday morning the wheelhouse convoy rolls in and only pays $10 for the road pass and then they setup right on top of there houses that are paying more then $10 to fish there. I think this is a great idea to slow down the traffic/pressure on the lake. The owners at Beacons were great, I would recommend you check out the hotel or there sleepers they offer.

[Getanet]

At the end of the day if all the resorts got together (that never going to happen) and raised the rate to $50 or only allowed so many people out of each access, another business person would open up another set of roads because there would be demand that the person could supply to give that person a desired profit to make it happen

Small point of clarification, but they would have to have a private access. Can't charge people just to drive on the roads on the lake. When I was out of Rogers it didn't look like there was much else for shoreline development on that part of the lake.

[hayseed]

Just a question. I understand and support all the concerns, but aren't we putting the cart before the horse? Wouldn't it be wise to see if the current two fish limit or a decrease to one reduces the pressure to a point where a one or two fish limit for a couple years could straighten this all out. It's possible there may not be another winter like this for several years and pressure/harvest could equalize. I don't agree with limiting access as that is too much like rationing and too much like Europe where only the wealthy or connected get access to resources. Just my thoughts.

[walleye34]

here is my one last comment on this thread...we now have 10-11 pages of comments and ideas and I find it amazing nobody is complaining about a 2 or even no fish limit. 10 maybe even 5 years ago this thread would have been full of people complaining about limits and I can't keep any!!! it's good to see all of our attitudes have been changed and are changing to do whatever it takes to protect the resource. I think the Lindner boys were the first people to really pitch (CPR) catch- photo- release way back in the day and it has caught on! Red Lake is a very special place and as close if not better at times than the absolute best, remote, fly in fishing you could do anywhere in the world and we need to keep it that way whatever the cost.

[Reedo7]

[laker1]

Biologically the lake can grow and produce so many fish,the lake is doing that. The problem is the harvest rate is exceeding the lakes potential.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

Just a question. I understand and support all the concerns, but aren't we putting the cart before the horse? Wouldn't it be wise to see if the current two fish limit or a decrease to one reduces the pressure to a point where a one or two fish limit for a couple years could straighten this all out.

The January numbers will be crucial. Remember that for Dec. 2014 25,000 to 30,000 pounds were projected for the top end of pounds harvested but we ended up at 77,000 pounds. For the years from when walleye fishing reopened in 2006 until the 2013 harvest year total harvests for the entire year averaged 100,263 pounds.

[bturck]

Leaving in an hour, will post any results later today from Beacon Harbor.....see ya on the ice Kelly

[jerkbait]

On another thread, this is the response to someone mentioning reaching the limit for walleyes.

"Just tell them you are fishing for crappies, perch and pike."

It is going to be hard to fix a problem when there are many people that think this is perfectly OK.

They are still only keeping a limit. Some stay one short of their limit until the end. Still the same amount of fish being harvested.

[RIPN LIPS]

Heres a question we had in are shack up there last weekend. Do the fish from lower red and the other 1/2 of upper, migrate up to the legal side and stay there or do they head back to the lower section? They say there is still a large crappie population on lower that can be seem from the sky, so why don't these fish move north or maybe they can't, is there a reef, fence, or wall that does not allow them to cross over in to upper red?

[fishin4sum]

The fish can go wherever they want. There may be more Crappies down there cuz they are not tageted for commercial purposes and the lower lake is much deeper.

[kelly-p]

Quote:

Do the fish from lower red and the other 1/2 of upper, migrate up to the legal side and stay there or do they head back to the lower section?

I think the fish just move around both lakes with the bigger perch and walleye maybe staying in Lower due to the deeper water. I think that most of the crappies spend the warm summer months in the deeper and cooler waters of Lower and then in late winter start migrating to Upper to spawn because Upper is shallower with a dark bottom so Upper warms up quicker.

Quote:

They say there is still a large crappie population on lower that can be seem from the sky,

The story that schools of crappies were so big that they could be seen from a plane started in a bar. In the first 1 or 2 weeks of the "Crappie Boom". Some of us locals were sitting in the Muni in Kelliher and our local spray plane pilot told of flying over the Red River when the catfish were staging in front of the tributaries to spawn. He told of how the catfish would be packed in so tight that a person could see the black gob of catfish from the air. Well there were some strangers sitting just down the bar from us that must have overheard us and thought that we were talking about crappies in URL because the very next morning the story was on 3 different fishing forums about schools of crappies in URL so big that they could be seen from the air. None of ever said anything about it not being about crappies in URL but was really about catfish in the Red River. Every time that story comes around I have to chuckle. Shows how much you hear in a bar that you can believe.

[laker1]

When Lower Red lake walleye numbers were decimated by commercial netting and part of the Upper the same. The DNR said the only reason there was any walleyes left at all was because the Minnesota side was not commercialized,yes fished down some by angling but it still had fish while lower there was almost zero fish left. Because the rest of the lake was over fished the walleye from the Minnesota part when they did spread out it diluted what few were left over the entire two lakes.

Lower Red was so low in walleyes the spring run up the major inlet,it had only one walleye show up vs 1000's that should of showed up.

They probably do mix some but not completely between lakes.

[OLE77]

I'm quite sure they have to buy a non res tag to leave the compounds.

If they are found on this side of the line I believe they are fair for

catching.

[cookie129]

From the looks of it last night the new limit will have a huge impact .The wife was washing cloths in Kellier and said the vos gas station was empty when usally it is buzzing on a Friday. Hillmens tall tale taveren had 4 cars/trucks there when I came off the lake at 9. Westwind had about 10 when most Friday s tere is close to 30. I also saw very few wheel houses enter the lake yesterday on hillmens access. Laat week I set up 6 wheel houses this week 1. I have made one reservation since the announcement and that was Dan and has been coming in feb. for a couple years now. Rick also called for the middle of Feb. he is a good friend and hunting buddy.

[Tim_N]

Kelly P, question for you...

Do you know where a guy can find the statistics of the tribal harvest? Have they came close to their quota this year? Just curious if there has been any talks of reducing the harvest on that side of the lake to soften the blow...

Public info on RL Band Member Walleye harvests found on page 7 of the following link.

Red Lake DNR Newsletter Dec. 2014

http://www.redlakednr.org/PDF/2014_2015%20winter.pdf

Red Lake DNR has archived newsletters dating back to Dec. 2011 just navigate to following link and click on "Archive News".

http://www.redlakednr.org/index.html

[kelly-p]

Thanks Tim_N. and welcome to this Forum.

[bturck]

Excellent info...thanks for posting