Jump to content
  • GUESTS

    If You  want access  to member only forums on FM, You will need to Sign-in or  Sign-Up now .

    This box will disappear once you are signed in as a member.

Too much pressure!?!


InTheSchool

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 316
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • kelly-p

    31

  • bturck

    18

  • cookie129

    17

  • crestliner61

    16

Quote:
Restocking?

As I stated before restocking is not an option because more walleyes are being harvested right now then could ever be stocked.

Quote:
How about a $10,000 yearly outfitter fee

The outfitters would not be paying that fee. The fishermen renting that house would end up paying that fee. Some outfitters run 4 houses like Cookie and some run over 20 house so Cookie would be charging $2,500 extra a house while others would be charging under $500 per house. Would kinda squash the little guys out wouldn't it? So to be fair maybe a $1,000 fee on every wheelhouse sold in MN? $250 fee on every portable? Ice augers, $50? Almost missed fishing rods, $10? Wait, ice skimmers can be added, $.50? Then there is tackle, $.25 a hook? The State could make a ton of money here. ICE CHISELS!!! Another $1 a chisel? Bait, how could I miss bait, $.75 a scoop? This could go on forever and by the time we are done adding things we will have needed to hire another 1,000 people working in new State offices to keep track of it grin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
So why do they narrow down the slot in July, make it 20-26, and let people harvest those prime spawners?? Granted the pressure is probably less at that time but every fish counts!

When they planned the limits and estimated the harvest for 2014 no one, not DNR, not Technical Committee, not Advisory Committee could for see the rapid increase in fishing pressure. Part of increased pressure was weather related. For the most part calm winds over the summer allowed people to fish more and the cool temperatures kept the fish in shallower all summer. No snow this winter allowed people to fish a bigger area.

I do no have the harvest numbers for 2014 here but I think the numbers were in the 70,000 pound range. In 2012 we harvested 26,724 pounds all summer.

addition

I was wrong on the summer harvest. Summer harvest for 2014 was 111,671 pounds of walleyes. The 10 year average summer harvest (2006-2013) was 49,658 pounds of walleyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what if the renters need to pay extra for putting fingerlings into the lake. Guys getting on the lake with their own houses, augers, vexi's, and so on are paying their own way on the lake with their own gear. The outfitters are bringing guys and gals out who have may just only purchased a fishing license to contribute to our sport. Without question in my mind outfitters and guides should have to buy an expensive guiding license to help with lake conservation and the future. I own lake property in the Winnie area and half the boats I see are guide boats at times. Dozens when the bite is hot. How should someone be able to take from a recourse day in and day out without putting back in? I can only have one limit of walleyes in possession at a time but guides can take a few trips a day with multiple clients and everybody gets a limit everyday....... I'm paying property tax on a lake to watch this and am active in the lake association. Never seen a guide or an outfitter at a meeting except once. It was to explain to our group how a implementing a slot could hurt our walleye fishing..... Hmmmmmm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How could restocking not help? Is it gonna hurt?? Putting one walleye in the lake helps. Proper restocking with sound management by ALL is the key to great fishing forever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what if the renters need to pay extra for putting fingerlings into the lake. Guys getting on the lake with their own houses, augers, vexi's, and so on are paying their own way on the lake with their own gear. The outfitters are bringing guys and gals out who have may just only purchased a fishing license to contribute to our sport. Without question in my mind outfitters and guides should have to buy an expensive guiding license to help with lake conservation and the future. I own lake property in the Winnie area and half the boats I see are guide boats at times. Dozens when the bite is hot. How should someone be able to take from a recourse day in and day out without putting back in? I can only have one limit of walleyes in possession at a time but guides can take a few trips a day with multiple clients and everybody gets a limit everyday....... I'm paying property tax on a lake to watch this and am active in the lake association. Never seen a guide or an outfitter at a meeting except once. It was to explain to our group how a implementing a slot could hurt our walleye fishing..... Hmmmmmm.

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing at the outfitters as the problem in this thread. The post above is just one example. All of the gear mentioned above does absolutely nothing to help or improve the lake, so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

While I don't have the stats, there aren't that many outfitters to choose from and I would put the total number of houses by outfitters at around 200 houses. Granted, most of the time those houses are occupied, but the number still pales in comparison to how many houses are out there. And at least in my personal experience, not every house rental is catching fish blush Honestly, when you're renting a sleeper you're basically paying a place to sleep. Most aren't going to move you all around the lake until you find the hot bite. Guys with portables or their own wheel houses have much more freedom to move around the lake. If renting a sleeper guaranteed me a limit, I have a refund coming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mean to point fingers at any one individual but I do believe if you are profiting from a resource, you should have to pay something significant for that resources replacement. There is nothing in place within state laws to make that happen and there dam well should be in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will check and see if any of the info from the creel census shows where the fishing pressure is coming from. What % comes from rental houses versus wheel houses versus daytrippers.

I would guess that the number of rental houses is right around Getanet's estimate of 200. So if you had 3,000 houses on the lake one the weekends and 200 of them are rentals you are looking at about 6 or 7% of the fishing pressure coming from rentals. From 5 years ago until now about 1/3 of the rental business's have closed up and are no longer in business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would guess that the number of rental houses is right around Getanet's estimate of 200. So if you had 3,000 houses on the lake one the weekends and 200 of them are rentals you are looking at about 6 or 7% of the fishing pressure coming from rentals. From 5 years ago until now about 1/3 of the rental business's have closed up and are no longer in business.

Mine was a pretty rough estimate. When I was looking at renting a house there seemed to be around a dozen places to rent from. Some of the bigger ones have 20 houses of various sizes and based on Cookies' posts I know some guys only run 4-5 houses.

With how great the walleye bite has been I'm surprised that many people have closed up. Was the crappie run more popular that the current walleye run?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
I don't mean to point fingers at any one individual but I do believe if you are profiting from a resource, you should have to pay something significant for that resources replacement.

Tackle companies included? Wheelhouse manufacturers? Gas stations? Auger companies? Why single out the people fishing in rental houses?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't have a dog in the fight because as I stated earlier, We do not fish Red for most of the reasons posted above, BUT, it appears the only answer is to let the pressure problem take care of itself. When the fishing dies, the pressure will go back to normal or less do to the length of drive for most people to get their? Hook and line fishing will not kill the lake, it did not before. What we do on 18% of the lake can make some difference, but it certainly will not be the main factor on wether the lake lives or dies? I don't blame anyone. Its the nature of the beast, when the unnatural amount of fish go away, so will the unnatural number of fisherman. It appears legislation only points to more finger pointing?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cant agree. Guides customers pay for the resource when they buy license. A guide/outfitter profits off their ability to help someone utilize a resource they already paid for. What your proposing is assess a fee based on someones skill at catching fish? That is ludicrous for too many reasons to list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lakerape 2015 is going on up there this year. It isn't the rental houses that are causing it. If you must blame a "group" of fisherman, it is pretty obvious it is the gazillions of wheel houses that are taking more than any amount of people by a long shot. Doesn't help that the fish on Red have been basically on a suicide bite for a few years straight and there you have it.

Ice fishing has become so commercialized the last 10 years it's unreal. Used to be you had to have some skill and patience to build yourself a fishhouse if you wanted one. Now there are a hundred different manufacturers out there and the pressure on ALL the lakes in MN are increasing tenfold.

There isn't a good answer to help decrease the pressure. The only way that happens is if the bite slows up, the lake gets fished out, or some of the other walleye "destinations" start to pump out fish. It is just the nature of the beast when it comes to ice fishing nowadays. A lake fires up, lakerape starts, and the masses will take as many as they can until they are gone.

Sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
With how great the walleye bite has been I'm surprised that many people have closed up. Was the crappie run more popular that the current walleye run?

We didn't see a drop off in our business changing from crappies to walleyes even when the walleye limits were 2 fish right after walleye fishing opened back up after the recovery. But we had a lot of really great people that really enjoyed fishing rather then people that felt that a fishing trip was only good if you filled their bucket. Many of our old customers now have their own wheelhouse. With that I'm out of here. Behave yourselves or you will have to stay after school. grin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone seems to be only looking at this from an ice fishing point of view. There is only fishable/legal ice for Dec, Jan, and Feb. for the most part. 3 months only and usually less as most of Dec is a no go for wheelhouses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this year was a perfect storm.

Great early ice and early.

Low gas prices.

And a great walleye bite.

We were up the 1st weekend in Dec and 3 of us in 3 days fishing out of portables less then 8 hours a day caught 450 eyes.

URL is easy to fish. If you are not catching fish move 50ft and bam you limit out in 15-20 minutes.

It is crazy. I am sure many people take more then their limit. That I wish they would get caught or turned in. I fish with barbless hooks and if I lose a fish who cares. I am in it for the action and getting my son and my Dad the chance to catch fish like no other lake. I hit URL lake once a year and it is truly enjoyable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone seems to be only looking at this from an ice fishing point of view. There is only fishable/legal ice for Dec, Jan, and Feb. for the most part. 3 months only and usually less as most of Dec is a no go for wheelhouses.

Winter angler hours of fishing pressure for 2014 harvest year. Dec. (2013)....231,185 angler hours. Jan. 2014....428,312 angler hours. Feb. 2014....421,490 angler hours for a total winter time angler hours of 1,080,987 hours. Total summer angler hours for 2014, 182,873. So far in the 2015 harvest year Dec. 2014 had over 500,000 angler hours.

The DNR feels that they can predict winter harvest to within about 10% if, big, big if, they can predict angler trips to URL. From the 2012 harvest year until the 2014 harvest year angler trips to URL increased 85%. Almost double in 2 years!

The average wheelhouse fishing trip to URL during the 2014 season was 40 hours long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are all talking about "xxx" resort roads. I've never been up there or anywhere up north for that matter, but how can people charge to drive around on a public lake? What is stopping anyone from just getting on them? [/quote

There's no problem with accessing from a public landing, but you can usually drive as far as the shoreline. The road system some of the resorts maintain is substantial and the cost is substantial. So without the resorts fisherman would mostly be limited to access by snowmobile, ATV or feet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm of the perfect storm line of thinking too,only I would add that the reports from other lakes,LOW & ML especially,have been contributing factor as well IMO.I know that from early July on ~ 95% of the eyes I caught were 12-14 inchers.We have a place down by Winnie & the only time I caught a couple I could've kept was late Sept or early Oct while crappie fishing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are very few things managers of the lake can control. They can’t control the weather, they can’t control who owns wheelhouses, and they can’t control the price of gas. The one thing they CAN control is harvest.

Whether you pull a wheelhouse 8 from hours away, or walk on foot from your lake home or whether you rent 1 house or 100 it is a shared (renewable yet finite) resource and when too many people take too many fish it has to stop.

I’ll tell ya what and I know it seems far fetched, but I think the MNDNR should consider looking into limited access permits for some of the largest bodies of water. The grass will always be plentiful if you limit the number of sheep allowed to graze.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People are more mobile than ever before and better equipped for fishing. The lake can only produce finite amount of fish while anglers only get more efficient and many have more time than ever to go fishing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Sandy300

Winter angler hours of fishing pressure for 2014 harvest year. Dec. (2013)....231' date='185 angler hours. Jan. 2014....428,312 angler hours. Feb. 2014....421,490 angler hours for a total winter time angler hours of 1,080,987 hours. Total summer angler hours for 2014, 182,873........

The average wheelhouse fishing trip to URL during the 2014 season was 40 hours long. [/quote']

So they count every hour an ice fishermen spends on the ice an "angler hour"? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when much of that time isn't really fishing, and even if it is, most of it is catch and release.

Forty hours in an ice shack is two potential limits of fish kept..... Agree? (10 hrs of fishing for 1 fish)

For the sake of argument, let's say the open water limit will be two again.

Those numbers are grossly skewed when you figure in that open water fisherman are not eating, sleeping (living) on the water. A rough guess has me saying they fish an average of 8 hours a day (and I bet that is high). Assuming they take a limit home in those eight hours makes it fours hours per fish.

This all equates to show that winter/summer angler hours are off by 60% percent when comparing apples to apples.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WHo cares. DNR stocks walleye. People eat walleye....Nothing new here.

Lakes all over the state Rise and Fall with fish populations. Nothing new. Accept it.

Walleye is the harvest fish. Everyone is out to harvest them.

DNR stocks them; people take them. Round and ROund we go.

Everyone puts CPR in their signitures; but they're all harvesting fish...Your the few anyway. Everyone else; is looking for a limit and isn't happy with only 2, or 5, or 10...MORE WALLEYE!!! FOR THE TABLE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote:
when you figure in that open water fisherman are not eating, sleeping (living) on the water.

You said it your self. Also people in boats are not fishing during high winds or during storms or all night with rattle reels.

Quote:
This all equates to show that winter/summer angler hours are off by 60% percent when comparing apples to apples.

Sorry but I've read your post many times and have no clue how you arrived at that conclusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The post seems to be very popular, I can see both sides. One of many reasons the pressure has built on the lake is this fishing forum itself. Everyone taking about pressure, how good the lake is, limits, etc has attracted many more to Red I would bet "technology period".

Others I see are

1. The explosion of popularity of hard houses the last 5 years. Everyone seems to have one.

2. Things in 08-09 were pretty rough economy wise making it difficult for most to spend a bunch of cash on a weekend of fishing.

3. Gas prices

4. Being able to sit in a hard house when it's 20 below outside and your inside wearing slippers watching football of the satellite dish. The things coming out to make ice fishing more comfortable and easier are getting better by the day.

Everyone has their own opinions and I have no idea who is right. One thing I do know is many people voicing opinions on here didn't even hardly know Red existed 10 years ago and now they know how to manage the lake one way or another. I enjoy coming on here to read about fishing reports, stories, etc. Gets kind of old seeing threads where fellow sportsman become their own worst enemy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kelly, I'm saying a daily limit is a daily limit. Whether you spend 2 hours on the lake or 24 to catch them.

If an open water angler is on the water for two hours to catch a limit, and an ice angler is on the ice for 24, how does the "angler hours" make a rat's butt difference? All that matters is how many fish leave the lake everyday, not how long they were pursued.

When I'm in my boat, I'm fishing hard 90% of the time. Not much else to do. When I'm in a wheel house, I'm relaxing 90% of the time grin

It doesn't matter if I'm on a small lake, a big lake, a crappie lake or a walleye lake. When ice fishing, I'm there to have fun and relax, not to see how many fish I can catch and clean smile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There estimates are not off and they do differiatiate(sp) open water vs ice fishing. They know all the angles.

I don't mean to say they are off, just portrayed wrong.

If a guy fished for a week in a boat, and a week in a wheel house, he can keep the same amount of fish.

Boat+ 8 hours a day X 7 days= 56 angler hours for 14 fish (1 fish per 4 angler hours)

Ice shack + 24 hours a day X 7 days = 168 angler hours for 14 fish (1 fish per 12 angler hours)

With these numbers a summer angler is far more efficient compared to the ice angler.

Hence, my point that angler hours do not tell the whole story, because at the end of the day the same amount of fish left the lake.

Are you guys following me or am I crazy blush

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • leech~~
      Nope not me.  May want to go nextdoor and ask around?  
    • smurfy
      Looks to me like Leech brought his chair home!!😅😆
    • Brianf.
      I'm not there, so I can't tell exactly what's going on but it looks like a large area of open water developed in the last day with all of the heavy snow on the east side of wake em up Narrows. These two photos are from my Ring Camera facing north towards Niles Point.  You can see what happened with all of snow that fell in the last three days, though the open water could have been wind driven. Hard to say. .  
    • SkunkedAgain
      Black Bay had great ice before but a few spots near rockpiles where there were spots of open water. It looks like the weight of the snow has created a little lake in the middle of the bay.  
    • LakeofthewoodsMN
      On the south end...   Thanks to some cold spring weather, ice fishing continues strong for those still ice fishing.  The bite remains very good.  Most resorts have pulled their fish houses off for the year, however, some still have fish houses out and others are allowing ATV and side by sides.  Check social media or call ahead to your favorite resort for specifics. Reports this week for walleyes and saugers remain excellent.   A nice mix of jumbo perch, pike, eelpout, and an occasional crappie, tullibee or sturgeon being reported by anglers. Jigging one line and using a live minnow on the second line is the way to go.  Green, glow red, pink and gold were good colors this week.     Monster pike are on a tear!  Good number of pike, some reaching over 45 inches long, being caught using tip ups with live suckers or dead bait such as smelt and herring in 8 - 14' of water.   As always, work through a resort or outfitter for ice road conditions.  Safety first always. Fish houses are allowed on the ice through March 31st, the walleye / sauger season goes through April 14th and the pike season never ends. On the Rainy River...  The river is opened up along the Nelson Park boat ramp in Birchdale, the Frontier boat ramp and Vidas boat ramp.  This past week, much of the open water skimmed over with the single digit overnight temps.   Areas of the river have popped open again and with temps getting warmer, things are shaping up for the last stretch through the rest of the spring season, which continues through April 14th.   Very good numbers of walleyes are in the river.  Reports this week, even with fewer anglers, have been good.  When temps warm up and the sun shines, things will fire up again.   Jigs with brightly colored plastics or jigs with a frozen emerald shiner have been the desired bait on the river.  Don't overlook slow trolling crankbaits upstream as well.   Good reports of sturgeon being caught on the river as well.  Sturgeon put the feed bag on in the spring.  The bite has been very good.  Most are using a sturgeon rig with a circle hook loaded with crawlers or crawlers / frozen emerald shiners. Up at the NW Angle...  Ice fishing is winding down up at the Angle.  Walleyes, saugers, and a number of various species in the mix again this week.  The bite is still very good with good numbers of fish.  The one two punch of jigging one line and deadsticking the second line is working well.   Check with Angle resorts on transport options from Young's Bay.  Call ahead for ice road guidelines.  
    • CigarGuy
      With the drifting, kind of hard to tell for sure, but I'm guessing about a foot and still lightly snowing. Cook end!
    • PSU
      How much snow did you get on Vermilion? 
    • Mike89
      lake here refroze too...  started opening again yesterday with the wet snow and wind...  very little ice left today...
    • Hookmaster
      A friend who has a cabin between Alex and Fergus said the lake he's on refroze. He texted me a pic from March 12th when it was open and one from 23rd when it wasn't. 🤯
    • SkunkedAgain
      I don't think that there has been any ice melt in the past few weeks on Vermilion. Things looked like a record and then Mother Nature swept in again.   I'll give my revised guess of April 21st
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.