Dispute Over 9 Pt Buck

[Getanet]

Just saw the article below on the Star Tribune. I know everyone has their opinion on what is right/wrong in these situations, but what seems most odd to me is that it appears to be the boys father who suggested a coin flip, and then seems to disagree with how the situation was resolved. Who knows, I'm sure there is more to the story, including what was discussed between the hunters and where the deer was originally hit by the 11-year old.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/283958131.html

ONEIDA, Wis. — A dispute over a nine-point buck in Wisconsin was settled with a coin flip.

Wisconsin's deer season was just a couple hours old on Saturday when D.J. Jorgenson says his 11-year-old son, Kameron, wounded the buck in the town of Oneida.

"Deer hit the ground, and it came back up, and took off running," Jorgenson said.

The father and son then tracked the animal through the woods to a neighbor's property, Jorgenson told WLUK-TV. Before they could get to it, neighbor Randy Heyrman shot the buck twice from his deer stand to finish it off.

With the deer dead and the hunters deadlocked over who could keep it, they flipped a coin.

"So I dug in my pocket. I grabbed out a quarter. (Heryman) did the coin flip. My boy called tails, and it was heads. And (Heryman) said, 'Well, it looks like it's my deer then,'" Jorgenson said.

All Kameron got was a photo.

Hunters need permission to follow a deer onto private property, and the landowner has a right to take the deer, according to Shad Webster of the Oneida Conservation Department.

Even though Heyrman legally had a right to keep the deer, he said the coin flip was a fair way to settle the dispute. But Jorgenson disagrees.

"I wish he would have done the right thing to begin with. All my son wants is his deer that he shot," he said.

[smsmith]

I don't know what is "right", but any adult who would take a deer from an 11 year old should have his hunting rights revoked. I suppose if it was some "world class" buck it may make the decision more difficult...but come on man. An 11 year old kid?

[B-man715]

Two Adults= coin flip or fist fight

A Kid and an Adult= give the kid the deer every time.

In my opinion.....

[NoWiser]

A Kid and an Adult= give the kid the deer every time.

In my opinion.....

Could not agree more. Actually, any deer previously hit that comes by me and I finish off would go to the other guy if there is even a chance the shot would have been fatal. I don't want someone else's deer.

[O.T.C.]

I think if I'm that boys father and my sons shot proved it would be fatal I'd want my son to have it. But, is there any for sure way to know which wound was caused by the boy, most likely yes ? If I saw my sons shot would not have been fatal or it would've required an extensive tracking job and re-shooting of the animal I'd say it's the neighbors if they so desire to keep it. A lot of hunters would've told the boy here, I polished him off for you, I would give it to an 11 year old immediately thinking I likely would've never saw this animal if he didn't wound it or it maybe would've blew by so fast if he missed not giving me a shot. At a minimum it certainly is a teachable moment and this is maybe part of why when I was a youth you weren't rifle hunting until you were 13, there is a big difference in a 5th grader vs. a 7th or 8th grader, physically and mentally, slightly more mature and able to have a few more years under your belt of practicing which is what I would tell this 11 year old. This coin flip seems kinda bizarre. I'm sure we as readers can see both sides of it.

[leech~~]

We had the same thing happen one year with a nice big 8 point. We asked the next door land own who was "related" to the guy we were hunting with if we could go out in his field to retrieve a deer. He said no! The next thing we see is truck head lights heading out to the field!

Give the kid the deer!

[ANYFISH2]

Two Adults= coin flip or fist fight

A Kid and an Adult= give the kid the deer every time.

In my opinion.....

+1

The kids everytime.

[nofishfisherman]

I agree that the kid should get the buck assuming his shot was at least reasonable which in this case it probably was since they said the buck hit the ground initially before getting back up and running.

But at least they found a way to resolve the issue without violence or heated argument even if the end result wasn't what most of us would have done.

[O.T.C.]

Right on Leech I don't want to play devil's advocate, if I see an 11 year old trailing the deer with dad you bet the kid can have it, pretty sure I'd hang around and watch him tag it and help with dressing it out etc and help turn the experience into a teachable moment. Talk about shot placement and how to get a deer to stop by whistling quickly and sometimes the safety just needs to go back on and hope he comes back or turns around or presents a better shot etc. How a slight movement when shooting can put that bullet off course. Life's a little too short to make a big deal out of it. I bet this kid and father spend a lot of time practicing shots etc. in the near future and it's not the dumbest idea to spend on a deer type of target especially when I'm seeing 10 and 11 year olds blazing at live deer nowadays, that never used to even be a possibility and readiness can vary at any age level, however things change a lot when a live buck comes hoofing out at a guy, how many feel the recoil at a live deer vs. a target? The kid needs to get back in the stand and look ahead now, not at what could've been. Coin flip is a bit odd.

[bigbucks]

Anything beyond a scratch & it's the kid's deer IMO.

[ESSGuy]

Having lived the majority of my life in Mn but now living in Wi,"gettin your deer" is pretty important to a lot of guys in Wi. Poor sportsmanship at the very least.

[Wes Ellis]

The kid should have got it!

[lawdog]

Right on Leech I don't want to play devil's advocate, if I see an 11 year old trailing the deer with dad you bet the kid can have it, pretty sure I'd hang around and watch him tag it and help with dressing it out etc and help turn the experience into a teachable moment. Talk about shot placement and how to get a deer to stop by whistling quickly and sometimes the safety just needs to go back on and hope he comes back or turns around or presents a better shot etc. How a slight movement when shooting can put that bullet off course. Life's a little too short to make a big deal out of it. I bet this kid and father spend a lot of time practicing shots etc. in the near future and it's not the dumbest idea to spend on a deer type of target especially when I'm seeing 10 and 11 year olds blazing at live deer nowadays, that never used to even be a possibility and readiness can vary at any age level, however things change a lot when a live buck comes hoofing out at a guy, how many feel the recoil at a live deer vs. a target? The kid needs to get back in the stand and look ahead now, not at what could've been. Coin flip is a bit odd.

Whole lot of assumptions you are making about what this kid knows/doesn't know, his shooting skills and the amount of practice they have already put it. You may well not have anything to "teach" the kid, but you assume you do just because a wounded deer crossed the property line? Must be easy hunting when you are perfect and every shot you take kills a deer dead right in its tracks...

[ozzie]

there are some people that won't pull the trigger unless they know the deer is going to be an clean effective kill to the best of their ability. Meaning they won't shoot at moving deer or at deer with objects blocking a clear view. with this approach I have had many encounters with deer even at close range but never pulled the trigger. In fact this year I came multiple time with in 15 feet of deer before they got up and could have taken shots and probably would have hit but being that it wasn't what I consider a high percentage shot I hold off. This has now caused me a couple seasons of not pulling the trigger but I also personally have not had to track a deer I shot ever! Take as you will but there is a way I believe to take a shot with a high percentage and little to no tracking is usually involved.

I am not saying this kid didn't take a good shot as I have no clue but this was in response to lawdogs last statement: "Must be easy hunting when you are perfect and every shot you take kills a deer dead right in its tracks..." It isn't easy hunting but it is easy tracking!!

To the original issue yeah the kid should have got the buck even if the other guy felt he had the kill shot. The kid did what a good hunter should do and got on the trail and found the deer. Give the kid a boost of confidence and not a negative feel of the sport!

Good Luck to all this coming muzzy season as I have a tag I hope to still fill!!

[Rather_B_Fishing]

I'd give the deer to the kid.

If I felt that the kid did not put a kill shot on it, then I might just see if I could get my picture taken with it. Then congratulate the kid.

If this was the kid's first deer, that would make it even sweeter to give it to him.

[O.T.C.]

I'm sorry it is hard to assume when we were not allowed to hunt deer at age 11 in 5th grade. That's what I was sorta saying we don't know squat about this situation but I'm in my 40's and still sight in and practice, is it safe to assume a kid that hasn't hit puberty yet might need some practice and then even some more and maybe even at a deer target to help fine tune things a little. I'd say lessons learned in this situation. My son is 12 and begs to go, he thinks he's ready, I know he isn't. I'd rather have him wait then wound an animal which might really sour his experience, to each their own. Did this kid hit a branch ? We have very little to go on other than a coin flip.

[BryanL]

Two Adults= coin flip or fist fight

A Kid and an Adult= give the kid the deer every time.

In my opinion.....

A dead deer is really worth a fist fight?

[PurpleFloyd]

Me personally, I would say let the kid have it without a doubt. However, depending on differences in laws between Minnesota and Wi it might be technically illegal to do so and it would violate the no cross tagging ethics many on this board support because the kid was not in the direct company of the person or party that actually killed the deer.

[Eric Wettschreck]

A dead deer is really worth a fist fight?

I was thinking the same thing.

[jbell1981]

Two Adults= coin flip or fist fight

A Kid and an Adult= give the kid the deer every time.

In my opinion.....

What about a kid and a kid?

[B-man715]

I was being sarcastic about the fist fight, but two adults should be able to come to a reasonable conclusion (was the first shot fatal etc...)

As for two kids shooting the same deer, I would expect the same. But if I was a 16 year old with a half a dozen deer under my belt, I would give the deer to a 12 year old if it was his first deer.

In my personal experience it is the exact opposite of a fist fight if a deer was shot by another hunter and myself. It ended up with both of us offering the deer to each other with a lot of "....you can have it if you'd like"....."are you sure? You can take...." etc, etc.

This has happened more than once to me.

It never happened with a huge buck, but if it did I would say first blood (if a fatal shot) gets the deer. If the buck crossed property lines, I would side with the property owner the deer died on first, but hopefully the owner would let the first hunter tag the deer if it was a fatal wound.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

Make the deer a doe in all of the cases and I bet the outcomes are more readily settled and in MOST cases to the rightful hunter. Unfortunately this plays out every season in every state. Each case is going to be different in nature and have different real and what should have been outcomes. The most unfortunate part that I see is the antlers or most importantly the antler size playing the biggest role.

[Jeremy airjer W]

If the other guy was not there and the dear passed onto the private property and they where no longer able to track it then they would not have the dear either.

Let's say he shot it in the morning. Lose the track as the deer goes to private property, and then the deer is shot in the evening by the neighbor. Who gets it.

[deerminator]

I would probably give the kid the deer but not because it was "his" or he had the right to it and so on, but rather to encourage him to keep hunting. Though you do have to weigh the other side. The article talks of him wounding it and the neighbor delivering the lethal shot. If its two adults, the guy who put it down if its been on its feet for awhile after the shot wins every time IMHO. It's a deer. Not something worth arguing over. And if it wasn't hit hard enough to go down within a couple of hundred yards, then I'd have a hard time saying I had gotten it. My point being, you have to teach the kids about what it means to be respectful member of society and an ethical hunter too. Maybe a gimmee that first time, but after that, I wouldn't want my kids thinking they get a deer just because they're a kid. Don't want to set a precedent of entitlement for them so they think they get it when they're an adult every time too. But again, I'm with the majority here, would give the kid the deer on the first time to help create a positive experience and maybe talk about it with him the next season as not to stifle his enthusiasm.

[Wanderer]

+1 Deerminator.

The possession of the deer is secondary in this situation.

[FISHINGURU]

I was sitting in my stand opening morning and seen a father and son come sit down about 3-400 yards from me. As I was sitting there I was thinking to myself what I'd do if they shot at a deer and it came running my way.

I totally thought to myself even if they hit or missed it and I dropped it I was going to say that I shot and missed and then it dropped right in front of me and let them keep the deer.

[harvey lee]

I have always went by who drew first blood. If one came by wounded and I finished it off and you could see by the other shot it was going to be fatal, then I would say, take the deer.

I would hope I will never be greedy enough to take another kid's deer, very low.

[fishhound]

These stories always make me chuckle. Back when I lived in Montana it was just the opposite. We'd fight as to who HAD to put a tag on the animal. Antelope were the worst. Nobody wanted their season to end. Especially if was early on the first day.

We’ve taken some big deer over the years and I’ve never seen a rack or an animal someone fought over to put their tag on. First shot HAD to tag the deer. Even if it wasn’t going to be a fatal shot. Anybody else that shot was usually trying to put a kill shot before it went over the hill or down into the bottom of some deep ravine. You know the place, the kind of place so bad the only way you could get the animal out was to go in with a fry pan.

The way I see it, it's like when you catch a baseball or hockey puck at the game. Find the first kid near you and hand it over. Make someone’s day.

[NWKR]

If the other guy was not there and the dear passed onto the private property and they where no longer able to track it then they would not have the dear either.

Let's say he shot it in the morning. Lose the track as the deer goes to private property, and then the deer is shot in the evening by the neighbor. Who gets it.

With a non-fatal shot and they weren't actively tracking it anymore I think it would be different. Depending on the details I would probably keep the deer if I was the neighbor. Based on the way the situation is described in the article I agree with everyone else that the kid gets the deer.

[maxx rpm]

Been waiting for one of these stories to pop up. I work in Wisconsin, and hear two every year. Seems as though a large amount of Wisconsin hunters are not good shots. Hear many more stories of tracking long distances. If a deer can go through your forty, through the next forty, and into the next one, and someone else shoots it, it is that persons deer. Personally, if I see a nice deer come in normally, and later some kid were to come by and say he nicked it, tough bounce. Learn how to shoot I guess. I have never tracked a deer that I shot at. Can either see it from the stand, or from the spot it was shot. No need to feel badly for bad shots, feel bad for the wildlife that walk off to die, needlessly. Teaching someone that it is okay to not put in the work and make a bad shot, but in the end you still get what isn't yours--those are the ones you see on the ten oclock news.