Posting Land/Handling Trespassers and Neighbors

[Vikings_59]

The second question the CO (Mies from Wright County) asked me about my posted signs was "Are the signs signed and dated? Because if the date is not within 1 year of the trespass offense, it wont hold up" That was in 2012 so it may have changed.

[smsmith]

The second question the CO (Mies from Wright County) asked me about my posted signs was "Are the signs signed and dated? Because if the date is not within 1 year of the trespass offense, it wont hold up" That was in 2012 so it may have changed.

That's good to know. Maybe the best practice would be to annually date (and re-sign if necessary) with a sharpie or paint pen.

[CaptainMusky]

BTW...his land isn't posted. Think I'm walking around on it without talking to him first?

to add more perspective to the "yahoos" I referenced. I saw a group of pheasants fly into some nice switchgrass which was not posted. Obviously interested in a chance to hunt them I drive up to the nearest farm to ask permission mind you the land is NOT posted. I see a gruffy man in the yard and drive toward him as he walks toward my vehicle. I roll the window down and politely state why I'm there and ask if he owns the land (pointing) where I saw some pheasants. He replied yes! I asked if I could hunt it and he said NO. I said OK thanks anyway and offered him a venison stick holding up the bag. He proceeds to take the whole dam bag! Anyways I drive off thinking the nerve of this guy taking all my venison sticks.

A month later I see his picture and his old mans plastered all over the news because they killed a guy. It could have just as easily been ME!

[laker1]

Wow,good thing you just said thanks and left.

[smsmith]

to add more perspective to the "yahoos" I referenced. I saw a group of pheasants fly into some nice switchgrass which was not posted. Obviously interested in a chance to hunt them I drive up to the nearest farm to ask permission mind you the land is NOT posted. I see a gruffy man in the yard and drive toward him as he walks toward my vehicle. I roll the window down and politely state why I'm there and ask if he owns the land (pointing) where I saw some pheasants. He replied yes! I asked if I could hunt it and he said NO. I said OK thanks anyway and offered him a venison stick holding up the bag. He proceeds to take the whole dam bag! Anyways I drive off thinking the nerve of this guy taking all my venison sticks.

A month later I see his picture and his old mans plastered all over the news because they killed a guy. It could have just as easily been ME!

SOB...you just never know.

What I'll say is that "yahoo" is "normal" in the parts of central MN I frequent. Like I said before, good folks...just don't cross them. Anybody who isn't packing here is a fool (either open or concealed).

[rkhinrichs]

"Anybody who isn't packing here is a fool (either open or concealed)."

No that is not true at all! No need to pack, when you are kind and treat people with respect.

[smsmith]

"Anybody who isn't packing here is a fool (either open or concealed)."

No that is not true at all! No need to pack, when you are kind and treat people with respect.

99% percent of the time, you're right. The other 1% is what concerns me. Lotsa meth heads running around

[JIvers]

If YOU want to control who uses the land, you have no choice but to post it heavily and prosecute. Be prepared for plenty of "blowback" from those who've been treating it as their own. From my experience, it takes a full year of being a harda$$ and MOST IMPORTANTLY...being present on the land frequently.

This.

[Dave S]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but unless the laws have changed, agricultural land doesn't need to be posted. This includes CRP land.

[PurpleFloyd]

Every county has a plat map that shows the property lines and who the owner is. There is no excuse for not knowing who owns it.

We had a DNR officer stop by us and while we had verbal permission to be on the land, they told us that legally we needed permission in writing from the landowner so we do that now.

[harvey lee]

One can always find the owner of the land Brian if they try, it may take some time but it can be done.

When I use to goose hunt in North Dakota, I almost always found the landowner or at least got his phone number from his ranching neighbors. I would call and go from there.

because one cannot locate the owner should not be an excuse to not ask. if I cannot locate the land owner, then I simply do not hunt that land.

Respect for the landowner.

Most people like the law as written as far as getting access to land Brian. The majority are people who do not own land people want to access for hunting.

I guess maybe next time I want to hang at a pool, I will see one in someone's yard and invite others to come over to have a party. Land is land, may as well use whatever one chooses to without asking. Seems to be the way to do things today. Same difference as going on another's property to hunt, well just change it to a party instead. What the heck.

[harvey lee]

Every county has a plat map that shows the property lines and who the owner is. There is no excuse for not knowing who owns it.

We had a DNR officer stop by us and while we had verbal permission to be on the land, they told us that legally we needed permission in writing from the landowner so we do that now.

BINGO.

[aanderud]

Every county has a plat map that shows the property lines and who the owner is. There is no excuse for not knowing who owns it.

Yeah, I think basically everyone is aware of the plat maps. That doesn't mean the person listed in the map is accessible, available, or even alive at the time that you want to access said property. Nor does it mean that it's an actual person or even an actual mailing address where you might find a person. Seems like a silly argumen to me but whatever. I'll argue just because you act like it's all simple homeowners with houses next to said land. (Note:names have been changed to protect the innocent):

Random Landowner Guy Or Gal

PO Box XYZ

SomeTown, SomeState 90210

I assume you know that PO boxes are just that -- boxes to collect mail. They aren't addresses you can drive up to and ask some person for permission, nor are they phone numbers you can call. So, especially on a Sunday afternoon at the spur of the moment, there's absolutely ZERO probability of getting written permission to access that land. Lucky for the residents of MN, if Random Landowner has not posted the land and it's not agricultural, it's available for recreational use by default due to the longstanding trespassing laws here.

Yes, ideally one would plan ahead, multiple days in advance, and know everywhere that one wanted to be at everyone moment. Then one could track down James and associates and get written permission via snail mail (but you know dam well the person who checks that mail isn't likely to respond within 2-3 days, as they have other things on their mind -- so you better actually plan WEEKS in advance, and write at least several letters). That is IF the trust or company even has someone on staff that is interested in granting said permission.

As a nice alternative, MN provides access to that land (as long as it's not agricultural and not posted), which works fine in a pinch.

[brittman]

Not that simple Harvey. I do have plat books for 4 ND Counties and 6 MN Counties. I can tell you they work great for farm country. When you get up North it is often tough to tell where one property starts and the other ends unless they have been logged at vastly different dates.

Many landowners are surprised when land is newly surveyed. Surveys should always be completed when an area is going to be logged to the edge of the property. Many MN landowner neighbor quarrels have started because apparent boundaries were not the actual property lines.

[PurpleFloyd]

Every county has a plat map that shows the property lines and who the owner is. There is no excuse for not knowing who owns it.

[aanderud]

All that means exactly squat. Just because the plat map doesn't do the legwork for you doesn't mean that you now have the right to enter any unposted property just because you were too lazy to put in the time to find the owner and seek permission.

You obviously can't comprehend much, or you'd notice that I wasn't talking about being "lazy" -- I was simply providing ONE example of where the plat map isn't sufficient for me to gain access, especially on a spur of the moment outdoor recreation activity. I'm sure there are 100 other examples, I provided but ONE, and you are trying to refute it by calling me lazy.

Maybe you're much smarter than I am. I doubt it -- I'm smarter than the average bear. But, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt just this once. How, exactly do you get written permission from a Post Office box on a Sunday afternoon, to access unposted private non-agricultural land? You said I was being "lazy" by not doing "the leg work", so I'd like to know how to not be lazy in the future. Remember again that this is SPUR OF THE MOMENT. So anything that requires me to mail a letter a week earlier is off-limits.

Hypothetically speaking -- Let's say it's Sunday afternoon, and I find some land that's not posted which I really want to recreate on. I might have even asked several neighbors who live near the land and nobody can tell me a phone number or address for the owner. The owner is listed as a PO box in the plat map. I'm sure you have a solution that guarantees that I can get a response within minutes (not hours, as sundown might be just hours away). If you cannot (and I assume you can't), I'm going to rely on my current legal access as provided by the statutes.

Regardless of whether you can come up with a magical alternative or not, you're COMPLETELY WRONG in saying I don't have the right to access non-posted land. Of course you being wrong is nothing new, and I'm sure you're used to it (all of us make mistakes, right?). Fact is, we (you, I, and any other Minnesotans) have the right to recreate on PRIVATE land, as long as it is not agricultural and it is not posted. It's in the statutes. Has been for a LONG time (maybe forever). That's the whole point of my rant here. I was trying to inform/educate you and apparently a bunch of others who don't think or don't know that the right exists.

I don't know if you have a reading problem, a comprehension problem, or just want to argue. If you read the statute, there should be NO QUESTION that we have the RIGHT to enter private property, yet you stated the EXACT OPPOSITE in your post. I won't bother linking back a few posts where you can read the exact copy/paste text out of the statute that says the state not only ALLOWS it, but they ENCOURAGE it.

Not sure where you get your information (must be some idealized perception of private property law), but I'm providing valid statutes here (not opinions). If you have a problem with it, don't argue with me about it, and PLEASE don't call me 'lazy'. Try to get the law changed or something if you want. I'm simply arguing what is LEGAL according to the state.

On a positive note, any landowner who doesn't agree with default publication of their land can privatize that land with simple signage. For the most part, "squatters" will only be recreating on unposted land...and any who try to do so on posted land can be prosecuted if the owner so desires.

[cherokee]

I think Minnesota should follow states like Missouri, Maine, Texas etc that allow a land owner to paint a post purple. Some states allow orange paint. This would make it a bit harder for those that tear down signs and trespass. This posting of signs every so many feet is a high maintenance issue and is subject to vandals.

After the election, I will be talking to my representative about this. I am sure it has been discussed in the past but I will bring this up again.

[Jameson]

Someone in this thread must be a professionally paid

and it's not the one giving us the written law.

[CaptainMusky]

So the argument of my 5 year old now applies to gaining access to unposted land? "But I really want to right now "! SMH

Aanderud, I don't care how "pretty smarter you are than an average bear" (nice grammar usage BTW you smarter guy you?) you think you are intelligence does not equate to common sense.

I don't care if you cite 1000 references if its too inconvenient for you to ask permission and do the legwork to find said landowner or you just have to do it right now darnit, those are reasons today's society is doomed. Entitlement.

[aanderud]

intelligence does not equate to common sense....

if its too inconvenient for you to ask permission...today's society is doomed. Entitlement.

Asking for access is only common sense -- I don't think I disputed this fact and I haven't argued against that. I've simply acknowledged the possibility that getting an answer (positive or negative) is not always possible. You choose to take the route that if an answer is unavailable, the land should be off limits. On the other hand, I'd choose to follow the law, which I guess we're 'entitled' to do. Difference of opinion, I guess. Go ahead and limit your opportunities artificially if you want, it isn't hurting anything.

[rkhinrichs]

a lot of counties have all their plat book information and boundaries online on google earth!!!! It is great. you can make out property lines with land features. Yes, google earth is not always the best but it is a good start.

[PurpleFloyd]

You obviously can't comprehend much, or you'd notice that I wasn't talking about being "lazy" -- I was simply providing ONE example of where the plat map isn't sufficient for me to gain access, especially on a spur of the moment outdoor recreation activity. I'm sure there are 100 other examples, I provided but ONE, and you are trying to refute it by calling me lazy.

[CaptainMusky]

Nice way to get personal while tooting your own horn. Sometimes there is a disconnect between IQ and common sense.I personally could care less how much of either you have but feel free to let the rest of the world know how you measure up.

I thought this was hilarious as well considering his immense intelligence failed to negotiate a grammatically correct statement before he could even spit out just how dang smart he is.

[delcecchi]

The law is a recognition of the fact that when wandering through the woods or driving down a road through the woods one cannot tell which parcel they are on unless the owner has marked it.

These days, maybe with the right documents and a good gps it is possible to tell but it certainly wasn't then.

And to all those "i'm going to swim in your pool or sit in your yard", recall that residential and ag land is already presumed to be posted.

[DTro]

I thought this was hilarious as well considering his immense intelligence failed to negotiate a grammatically correct statement before he could even spit out just how dang smart he is.

Gotta love how people exaggerate such simple statements and blow them out of proportion. I'm QUITE CERTAIN all I read was "smarter than the average bear". How does that translate any differently? I'll go a step further and say smarter than most bears (since I've spent considerable time with him).

The law is clear and concise and it makes total common sense as to why the law allows unposted land to be rereated on. Common sense people would understand the concept and if anyone is "lazy" it is those unwilling to put up a few signs and maintain them to keep unwanted people out.

[CaptainMusky]

Well Dtro I guess you missed the word "pretty" in front of smarter because he edited his post. True sign of a genius.

For someone thumping their chest and talking down their nose to others they better be sure their house is in order.

[DTro]

Don't care what I missed you took his statement and made it something it wasn't.

[CaptainMusky]

Made it what it wasn't? A poorly worded sentence with incorrect word usage? Yes it was.

[DTro]

Um, yeah...you took the leap from smarter than the average bear, to his immense intelligence.

And people wonder why things spin out on control. Buy a clue sir.

[CaptainMusky]

Not even worth a reply. Carry on.