DNR walleye reproduction seminar

[laportian]

If the tribe wants to take all the walleyes they want then let them do it, But why should our tax money and money from our lic. pay to restock the lake with walleye???? If the natives want to fish the way they are then let them restock there own flippen lake!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone want to be treated equal so then we should all have to follow the same laws too.

The band actually takes less of its share. I don't think they care about equality wallyfisher. No one seemed to care about equality when they were making the deals to get theses lands.

[northender]

Just for the sake of clarity, what is the non-band harvest pounds per capita (Mn. state citizens) versus GLIFWC Band members pounds per capita or better said, Tribal citizens?

[PurpleFloyd]

Not sure what happened at Mille Lacs but I do know that in the I 90 corridor I have never seen a native american with a net or even one in a boat with a rod and reel but yet every single time there is a ht bite on an area lake, it is full of guys who are not native pounding them until they deplete the population and the bite ends.

[GravelBar]

Laporian, I thought I just read where your tribe bought the St. Paul Motel for how many millions of dollars? And isn't the Chippewa tribe going partner on a new casino in California? Now you expect me to believe you only get $900 a month from the casino!!!!!! Somebody slinging the bull here and it isn't me,

[delcecchi]

they might not be stocking it now but if it keeps going the way it is they will have to start and I really don't want to pay for it with my tax dollars.

Why not? It may well be that the size structure caused by years of slots combined with a couple bad year classes of perch was the problem. If so, it would be primarily a result of the DNR (that's us mn non native residents) management methods being misguided.

If the bands are taking 1/4 of the harvest and the DNR is taking (second hand) 3/4s of the harvest, whose fault is it when something goes wrong? I blame the guys with all the fisheries PhDs.

[laportian]

Laporian, I thought I just read where your tribe bought the St. Paul Motel for how many millions of dollars? And isn't the Chippewa tribe going partner on a new casino in California? Now you expect me to believe you only get $900 a month from the casino!!!!!! Somebody slinging the bull here and it isn't me,

Is that all you got? Again something you know nothing about yet you are on here trying to have a say!?You are nuts aren't you? You get busted all over this site b s'ing your way through these Mille Lacs threads and you have the nerve to call me a liar. I am not a Mille Lacs Band member, I do not receive per cap payments at all. I am a Leech Lake Band member. It is a known fact that Mille Lacs Band members receive like $922 a month in per cap payments from their casino profits. It is also known fact that the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe purchased a couple hotels in the metro. They have a profitable casino and are simply expanding their business. This is exactly what I am pointing out to everyone about you. You lie and twist the truth to suit your agenda. Like I said before your credibility on here is shot.

[laportian]

Wait for it...wait for it... Gravel is going to tell us nothing but the truth here guys. Trust me it'll be good.

ps This should be moved to sillytown. I and gravel have made sure nothing more productive can become of this.

[GravelBar]

Laporian,

You and I agree on so much. I say you don't need 6 lines to fish on open water and you agree. So we agree this part of your law needs to be changed.

I stake they are tribal members keeping Walleyes every weekend during open water and from what I understand you say they don't. Must just be those 50% that are keeping Walleyes during the summer. So you agree we need to change the tribal regs to meet the non tribal regs.

I say the Mille Lacs band is rich and they don't need to net Walleyes in the spring. You agree they own the 2 biggest hotels in downtown St.Paul and yes the band is rich which means the treaty of 1837 is out dated and the netting should stop.

Hey, thanks for being the best player on my team!!!!!

[river rat316]

If the treaty of 1837 is outdated then what is our bill of rights? Our constitution? Do you want those thrown out also, they are older? Or do those fit your narrative so you are fine with them?

[willyfahey]

Laportian, I am not sure why you continue down this road. You have struck me as a proponent of quality resource management and, in the past, pointed out the contrasts that exist between how things are managed differently in your neck of the woods than Mille Lacs. Most people seem to miss that. I respect your values in respect to your heritage and support for the Native people's rights. One can argue, though, that perhaps the law has not caught up to the science, so to speak, in respect to netting during the spawn. Most people seem to miss that the main reason for netting during the spawn relates, in large part, to the WI tribes' and other out lying tribes' involvement in the harvest and the economic impact of traveling to Mille Lacs for their harvest. (The Mille Lacs band has a very small impact on the harvest, from my research and point of view). The interest is getting as much as they can in as short amount of time as possible. Perhaps rightly so regarding their economic status. Most individuals who know understand that the vast majority of tribal people are poor to lower middle class at best. But, should that harvest also come at the cost of the resource? Where is the line between practicing one's rights and exploiting one's own rights get drawn?

There clearly is a sprout of regeneration occurring in the lake and that can be directly related to the decreased interference of the spawn with late ice outs. Why does the discussion never drift toward developing other options for late season harvest or post spawn, from the native side of the debate? Laportian, as you have stated, your harvest comes after the general population walleye season opens.

For all of you who think that the casinos' revenue made or should have made the Native Americans rich, how rich did the state lottery make you or the state for that matter? The general native population has about as much say in how casino revenues are managed as much as we do with lottery revenue. I assume you all believe our government has spent all of our tax dollars rightly?! Ignorance is no excuse for disrespect or bigotry.

[northender]

Laportian, I am not sure why you continue down this road. You have struck me as a proponent of quality resource management and, in the past, pointed out the contrasts that exist between how things are managed differently in your neck of the woods than Mille Lacs. Most people seem to miss that. I respect your values in respect to your heritage and support for the Native people's rights. One can argue, though, that perhaps the law has not caught up to the science, so to speak, in respect to netting during the spawn. Most people seem to miss that the main reason for netting during the spawn relates, in large part, to the WI tribes' and other out lying tribes' involvement in the harvest and the economic impact of traveling to Mille Lacs for their harvest. (The Mille Lacs band has a very small impact on the harvest, from my research and point of view). The interest is getting as much as they can in as short amount of time as possible. Perhaps rightly so regarding their economic status. Most individuals who know understand that the vast majority of tribal people are poor to lower middle class at best. But, should that harvest also come at the cost of the resource? Where is the line between practicing one's rights and exploiting one's own rights get drawn?

There clearly is a sprout of regeneration occurring in the lake and that can be directly related to the decreased interference of the spawn with late ice outs. Why does the discussion never drift toward developing other options for late season harvest or post spawn, from the native side of the debate? Laportian, as you have stated, your harvest comes after the general population walleye season opens.

For all of you who think that the casinos' revenue made or should have made the Native Americans rich, how rich did the state lottery make you or the state for that matter? Ignorance is no excuse for disrespect or bigotry.

Well said except for one element you refer to. That being that the Band members are poor and in need of subsistence hunting and fishing. Obviously, no citizens in this country (Mn. and WI. included) that are poor needs to go hungry if that person seeks out legitimate government support--easily found and in place from border to border for all. There is a reason subsistence fishing and hunting has been viewed as illegal and unneeded by all non-native citizens for over a century. And actually, until these rights issues were pursued for just the sake of getting them, even Native Americans were not legally allowed to gill net walleyes anywhere.

There is no credible excuse to net anywhere, for anyone in modern times, for subsistence purposes. None. These rights are outdated and surely unneeded. And very costly to thousands of non-band citizens.

[pushbutton]

Thats the thing about casting stones......they often come back and hit you..... and while I personally feel netting on this scale on an inland body of water is not the best use of this resource, don't know if it is my right to judge, as i am going to go catch, eat and gift some fish tomorrow. Here are some "white blooded americans" essentially.....legally doing the same thing. Lots of different rules and regulations on how to make dead fish dead in this country......

[northender]

Pushbutton---your videos and pics are showing fishing methods in areas where they are legal for all to do. All races, all ethnic origins. And in very small amounts of pressure on the fishery--relatively speaking to overall pressure at those fisheries in the vids etc. ( as an example--relatively speaking, the spearing done in S.D. is a drop in the bucket by a handful of people and heavily regulated)

So, in the case of Mille Lacs and other Treaty harvest rights scenarios, the opposite is true. Exclusive race based rights are given to Band members and exercised at commercial fishing levels.

What if the scenario was reversed Pushbutton? Lets say I get license plates on my car that are virtually free and you have pay a few $100 for yours--same access to the roads and related services. You have to buy the sticker for trail riding your sled but I don't. You have to fish with one line and rarely keep any fish (slot limits?), but I can fish with multiple lines and keep many fish--any size. You have to wait until the fish are done spawning but I can get them via the use of gill nets when they're crammed up in huge schools against shallow shorelines--taking 100's and even 1000's of fish in a day or two per boat. Lets make sure you can not drink out of a certain drinking fountain ( racism at it's best in the south--remember?)but I can drink out of any of them. Do you, after all that said and more, promote in real life, in pure definition, racism--and accept it? In the 21st century in this country?

You brought up the "white" (race) factor. Chew on that subject for while as you stand on U.S. soil as a U.S. citizen receiving all benefits everyone gets plus more "sovereign" rights...and maybe look in the mirror? LOL And let us all know how you justify your fishing/gifting tomorrow?

[delcecchi]

The natives are allowed to take fish. How they do it is up to them. The amount is subject to court ruling and negotiation. Why are you so hung up on them netting? In Wisconsin many of the same bands were spearing, and the relationship between natives and Sconies was more adversarial. We are catching some of the blowback from the Sconie behavior.

If you want to be able to net your share of the fish, tell the Legislature and the DNR. Those regs are not carved in stone.

[pushbutton]

I guess .....I justify by my right as a u.s. citizen to fish legally with a mn state license by how mn deems it best to use it's resources. The bands are a sovereign entity, not subject the the same statues and laws and can legally determine how they see best to access and use their share. You or I don't have to like it but that's the way it is, and can't imagine the diminishing walleye population in Mille Lacs lake is going to be enough change a couple hundred years of precedent. I have a small business so believe me, really know about equal or not, as I support both the rich and poor. Life is not always fair...you deal with it. Guess you dont have to though, its your right to try to change it. Since you believe so much in equity, guess you will be voting for the socialist party this fall...if not for sure the dems right? Lol. Again, not a fan of netting, but not going to possibly stroke out because someone else can do something I can't ....or vice versa.

I looked in the mirror and not a band member of any band, by the way.....well, used to play the drums or bass...in a band. But wasn't that good, so now am bandless.

[northender]

Like Gravel Bar says...don't argue with stupid. I am done here, betting on a huge majority agreed with me on all of the above. May the others rest in peace...

[GravelBar]

The US government giveth and the US government can taketh away. I believe and men and women are equal. Period.

[pushbutton]

Lol. So I am stupid because I have the capacity to differentiate between what I might want and, in this case, the legal reality? If so many are agreement with you, believe me the spineless politicians would address the situation tomorrow. Sportsman are in a minority and even declining in population. Then you have competing interests amongst them. Most of the average public could not tell the difference between a bass and a walleye, nor care if there is more of one or the other in the lake. That is your reality going forward trying to right your wrong. Also, just wait till the bucketmouth start to explode, because guarantee they are coming next, and make smallies look like a JV squad.......

[PurpleFloyd]