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fish_hunt_guy

DNR walleye reproduction seminar

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GravelBar

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Quote from Mark Twain

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PurpleFloyd

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Quote from Mark Twain

is that how you define the tactic of claiming there are no fish yet someone can catch a 50 lb stringer of big walleye?

Or are you too insecure with your position to allow someone to question you on it? I suspect it's the latter.

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delcecchi

Gregg, my point was that a walleye spawns once a year. Killing it in January keeps it from spawning just like killing it in April. That may sound stupid to you but it is true. In fact if a fish is killed in July it won't spawn in the spring either. Why would it make any difference if a fish was killed 5 minutes before it spawns, or 5 days or 3 months? Protecting the fish during the spawn only works to the extent that it makes it more difficult to harvest them. It has nothing to do with how many eggs get laid.

Besides, isn't the problem not that insufficient eggs are laid, or fry produced, but that the fry don't make it to age two?

All harvest by band members is supposed to be reported and count against the Native share, as I understand it.

I am reading this thread because the west half of Lake Vermilion has a similar problem (with no netting)

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northender

Gregg, my point was that a walleye spawns once a year. Killing it in January keeps it from spawning just like killing it in April. That may sound stupid to you but it is true. In fact if a fish is killed in July it won't spawn in the spring either. Why would it make any difference if a fish was killed 5 minutes before it spawns, or 5 days or 3 months? Protecting the fish during the spawn only works to the extent that it makes it more difficult to harvest them. It has nothing to do with how many eggs get laid.

Besides, isn't the problem not that insufficient eggs are laid, or fry produced, but that the fry don't make it to age two?

All harvest by band members is supposed to be reported and count against the Native share, as I understand it.

I am reading this thread because the west half of Lake Vermilion has a similar problem (with no netting)

A gill-netted walleye is dead no matter when and will never spawn again. There is a 90 percent or better ( based on DNR studies via tagging walleyes at Mille Lacs using nets) chance that a gill-netted walleye would not have been killed in the same year by hook and line. So, this "dead walleye is a dead walleye no matter when it is killed" to show netting has no major impact is, obviously, wrong and very flawed at best.

How many fish in the past 15 years would have spawned multiple years instead of being netted--if the netting had not been in place? Do the math! Divide the total "reported" tribal harvest poundage for the past 14-15 years by 1.8 pounds and you'll have your number. No impact?

Now, before anyone says angler "harvest poundage " is no different than tribal harvest poundage...remember--angler "harvest" has been in place for decades before the treaty era harvest. And the past 15 years angler harvest has been around the same or less than the historical averages for the past 50 years of record keeping. Any proof, historically, all the way up to the treaty harvest era, angling had a negative impact?

Tell us the netting and the court ordered/forced treaty era management is not the major/only blame for the walleye crash at Mille Lacs?

Wide Slot limits--especially aimed at protecting big fish, "long term" such as at Mille Lacs and now more recently at other big historical natural walleye factories, are devastating. It was and is predictable. It is not too late (getting close at a few though)at the other big lakes...unlike Mille Lacs which has already crashed. It takes about 10-12 years...or a little longer such as at Leech where major stocking is taking place every year.

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Search Function

I was up on Mille Lacs this summer and saw a single tribe member bring in his daily limit. 10 Walleyes between 22 to 28 inches. I would guess the weight to be approximately 50 pounds. My question is where does the walleyes caught by the tribe during the summer count? Are these all free and above their netting limits? I also wonder how many thousands of pounds of Walleyes are taken this way. I believe both tribe and non-tribe walleye limits should be the same while Angling.

It's my understanding that not very many Indians fish the lake with hook and line.

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Stick in Mud

A gill-netted walleye is dead no matter when and will never spawn again. There is a 90 percent or better ( based on DNR studies via tagging walleyes at Mille Lacs using nets) chance that a gill-netted walleye would not have been killed in the same year by hook and line. So, this "dead walleye is a dead walleye no matter when it is killed" to show netting has no major impact is, obviously, wrong and very flawed at best.

What are the odds that a walleye killed by hook-and-line would be gill-netted?

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Stick in Mud

that statement about walleyes on the ice not spawning might be the silliest comment I've seen on the whole mille deal

that solved the problem right there ban ice fishing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

good lord !!!!!!!!!!!!!

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted in an internet forum. Any forum. Ever.

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northender

What are the odds that a walleye killed by hook-and-line would be gill-netted?

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delcecchi

I have no idea (no relative studies to reference that I know of) I would think it would be higher odds of a gill-net catching any walleye than the proven odds of a hook and line catching a potential gill-netted walleye.

Walleyes are fungible. It makes no difference which particular walleye is killed when discussing the biology, other than the sex of the walleye.

The DNR and the bands determine how many pounds of walleye can be safely harvested and the bands get their quota and the anglers get theirs plus any that the bands don't use.

The slot is the mechanism used to control the angler harvest. It may be that it is not such a good thing. There are other methods that are used in commercial fishing that could be used. One is to let the fishermen fish, subject to minor regulations, until the quota is used up. Then fishing is closed, season over. Another would involve permits, where you would need to get selected to be allowed to fish.

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gregg52

[]

The DNR and the bands determine how many pounds of walleye can be safely harvested and the bands get their quota and the anglers get theirs plus any that the bands don't use.

and that is pretyty much guess

educated guess at best

nobody can determine mother nature

you take so many fish in a summer presuming the next spring is going to be a good hatch....bad hatch plus nets over 10 yrs .....not saying every year was a bad hatch but there always has been good yr classes in mille lacs and bad.... i'm not blaming the DNR they forced to do something

but as i've said ....dont fool with mother nature

the proof is in the history of the lake 'great fishing

get reproducing lake

add nets and slots and what happen

there wasnt much internet back when it was good fishing

but more than likely we would not be having this conversation before slots and nets

pretty black and white isnt it ????????

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northender

No, the angling public does not get the poundage the Bands don't use...not now and not ever in the past.

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kgpcr4

OK lets see here. We are getting plenty of walleye hatched. they are disappearing before they make it two years. How can that be a netting problem? I don't like nets but that is not the problem. if it were we would not be getting good hatches. The baitfish in the lake crashed and the lake was way to predator heavy. The young walleye either get eaten by other fish or beamed aboard a Klingon space ship. The fishing was hot for few years without any baitfish in the lake. Now we are paying for it. We have to manage the baitfish as well because without the bottom of the pyramid of the food chain there is no top. Hook and release killed a ton of fish as well. We have all seen the floaters out there. How is that good for the lake

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northender

OK lets see here. We are getting plenty of walleye hatched. they are disappearing before they make it two years. How can that be a netting problem? I don't like nets but that is not the problem. if it were we would not be getting good hatches. The baitfish in the lake crashed and the lake was way to predator heavy. The young walleye either get eaten by other fish or beamed aboard a Klingon space ship. The fishing was hot for few years without any baitfish in the lake. Now we are paying for it. We have to manage the baitfish as well because without the bottom of the pyramid of the food chain there is no top. Hook and release killed a ton of fish as well. We have all seen the floaters out there. How is that good for the lake

Without the nets, all of the present day/past 15 years management "tactics" would go away. The nets are the total cause of the problem. You speak about predator heavy--that is totally from the court ordered treaty harvest quota system forced onto the DNR.

By themselves, the nets have removed several 100K of walleyes from the system that normally would have spawned multiple years--most not be killed by hook and line anglers the same year or more they were killed by a net. Do the math if those fish had been able to be added to the hatch...some for at least all of 14-15 years of netting. No negative impact?

For the last time! If the treaty harvest era(netting) had not been forced onto the Mille Lacs scene, zero of the issues the walleye numbers suffer from now would have happened. Period! The lake was fine per the DNR. The "one over 20" rule, in place for 16 years prior to the nets was working perfectly (that from the DNR on the record) until the nets showed up forcing the devastating slot limit into place. There is zero reason to believe the lake wouldn't be thriving today if the baseless, unreasoned treaty harvest had not been put into place. Period.

IT'S THE NETS in plain English.

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northender

OK lets see here. We are getting plenty of walleye hatched. they are disappearing before they make it two years. How can that be a netting problem? I don't like nets but that is not the problem. if it were we would not be getting good hatches. The baitfish in the lake crashed and the lake was way to predator heavy. The young walleye either get eaten by other fish or beamed aboard a Klingon space ship. The fishing was hot for few years without any baitfish in the lake. Now we are paying for it. We have to manage the baitfish as well because without the bottom of the pyramid of the food chain there is no top. Hook and release killed a ton of fish as well. We have all seen the floaters out there. How is that good for the lake

FYI "plenty of walleye hatched" is no where near the historical average--pre-treaty era harvest/management per DNR records the past few years.

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GravelBar

laporian, Are you saying bull members of the tribe are not allowed 10 Walleyes a day angling or are you saying bull I didn't see a stringer of 10 that went around 50 pounds? It was mid June and yes I saw a 50 lb stringer. I still wonder how many pounds of walleye are taken this way.I'd guess between 10 and 20,000 lbs for the summer. Time the tribe had to follow the same regs for angling as the rest of us.

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GravelBar

Open-Water Hook and Line Regulations: 1837 Ceded Territory in Minnesota

This is a summary of some of the more important tribal hook and line regulations for the open-water fishing season

in the Minnesota portion of the 1837 ceded territory. This does not summarize all the regulations that may apply. If

you have questions, contact your tribal office or the Great Lakes Indian Fish and Wildlife Commission (GLIFWC)

at 715-682-6619.

Open Water Fishing means all fishing other than fishing through an artificial hole in the ice.

Hook and Line means a rod and reel or similar device including a tip up and hand held lines, and includes trolling.

No more than six lines with a maximum of two hooks or lures per line may be used. Lines may not be left

unattended for a period of more than one hour. Additional regulations apply to the use of setlines and set or bank

poles.

Permits: A general fishing permit is all that is necessary for open-water hook and line fishing and can be picked up

at your tribal conservation department or headquarters. You should also carry your tribal picture identification card

when fishing and present it upon request to enforcement personnel.

Live Bait: The following species may not be used as live bait: carp, goldfish, redhorse, freshwater drum, burbot,

bowfin, garfish, buffalo fish, lamprey, alewife, gizzard shad, smelt, goldeye, mooneye, carpsucker, quillback, ruffe,

or crayfish. Minnows or bait fish may not be released on any waters or shores.

BAG AND SIZE LIMITS FOR OPEN-WATER HOOK AND LINE FISHING:

Species Bag Limit Size Limit

Northern Pike, Smallmouth Bass,

Largemouth Bass, and Walleye

10 per person per day Any size

Sturgeon 1 per person per year (all methods). June 1 to March 1

season. Register and tag by 5:00 p.m. of working day

following harvest. Harvest allowed only on St. Croix

River below Taylor Falls.

45"

minimum

size limit.

Muskellunge 2 per person per day 40"

minimum

size limit

White Bass, Rock Bass, Bluegill, Crappie,

Pumpkinseed, Yellow Perch, Yellow Bass,

Catfish, Cisco, Whitefish, Rough fish

None Any size

Lake Trout 5 per person per day Any size

Trout and Salmon

(except Lake Trout)

5 per person per day in aggregate. Spring ponds open

from first Saturday in May to September 30. All other

waters open from January 1 to September 30.

Any size

Paddlefish or Spoonbill Catfish No open season

Cleaning Boats: All aquatic vegetation should be removed from boats and trailers before entering or when leaving

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gregg52

OK lets see here. We are getting plenty of walleye hatched. they are disappearing before they make it two years. How can that be a netting problem? I don't like nets but that is not the problem. if it were we would not be getting good hatches. The baitfish in the lake crashed and the lake was way to predator heavy. The young walleye either get eaten by other fish or beamed aboard a Klingon space ship. The fishing was hot for few years without any baitfish in the lake. Now we are paying for it. We have to manage the baitfish as well because without the bottom of the pyramid of the food chain there is no top. Hook and release killed a ton of fish as well. We have all seen the floaters out there. How is that good for the lake

right are those out there

slots

why slots

NETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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laportian

laporian, Are you saying bull members of the tribe are not allowed 10 Walleyes a day angling or are you saying bull I didn't see a stringer of 10 that went around 50 pounds? It was mid June and yes I saw a 50 lb stringer. I still wonder how many pounds of walleye are taken this way.I'd guess between 10 and 20,000 lbs for the summer. Time the tribe had to follow the same regs for angling as the rest of us.

Bugging you huh? I called your credibility out, basically called you a liar. I am not arguing that they don't have a 10 fish limit. They do, but it is really a non factor. I'm sticking with my instinct on this. Like I said, if anyone cares too they can review yours posts on this hot topic. And in most of the threads you throw in this 10 fish per band member deal. In one you stated that all you have to do is show 2% indian blood and you are allowed this. That is totally wrong, its like you were pulling numbers out of your butt in order to spread mis information. Akin to lying. You have also thrown out all kinds of hypothetical poundage numbers of this native hook and line theory of yours. You had it pushed up to 50,000 pounds one time. Crazyiest non sense Ive ever heard. I am tribal and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that there are literally dozens of band members fishing the lake all season long. Very few of us fish like that man. Did I said dozens? Yeah dozens might actually go out and do it once in a blue moon. Anybody reading this ever seen a Native out angling on the pond?

So quit trumping up crazy poundage numbers and trying to incite a riot. The band member hook and line harvest is a moot point in this equation. It is nil to non existent.

I am still calling bull still given your fetish with the Mille Lacs Band members angling limits. If it happened in June why weren't you jumping on an active netting/treaty harvest thread then and crying foul? Simple you made it up to stir up more bull regarding the nonsense poundage you are spewing. Guys like you are doing more damage to the anti netting crowd. Seriously guys go back in his prior post on the topic and have a good look and see you will see what I'm talking about with this guy and his propaganda.

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BrdHunter01

Anybody reading this ever seen a Native out angling on the pond?

Yep, quite often actually!

Well, I formally witnessed this. I fished the lake maybe twice this year. Since the nets and slots have all but destroyed the fishery, I won't be visiting often.

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Stick in Mud

I have no idea what the poundage is taken by Native anglers using hook and line. But I can say that, in my many years of fishing the lake many, many, many times, I've seen two Native anglers--both on a launch--keep fish that non-Natives couldn't.

I'm sure there are guys out fishing, but your estimate seems a wee bit high.

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Red Miller

Its not the poundage, its the principle (or lack thereof). Continuing to decimate a lake that has already been decimated is a sin. What a joke! You should be ashamed.

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Stick in Mud

*I* should be ashamed???

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Red Miller

No....the ones keeping 10 fish.

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GravelBar

Laporian, No one seems to want to answer a simple question I keep Asking. Let's say the tribe only takes somewhere between 5,000 to 10,000 lb during the summer by angling. Where does this count? If you limit out on your quota for netting where does this additional weight count?

On a separate subject. Not only can you keep 10 Walleyes a day angling you get to use 6 line with 2 hooks per line!! WOW! You must not be very good at angling for fish. So I have an offer for you. I'll teach you and any other members of the tribe how to fish with a single rod and a single hook. Price $1,000,000. Shouldn't be a problem with the casino.

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Stick in Mud

I can't say I ever try to determine the racial identity of anyone I see out on the lake, but I can't remember one single time seeing a Native angler in his own boat on the lake outside of the spring netting season. Never at an access, never on the lake. Not calling you guys liars...I just haven't seen it.

To your point, Gravelbar, I'm tempted to agree that hook-and-line angling might not get added to their total, but I just don't know how much weight we're talking about. During netting season, there's usually a GLIFWC guy at the access weighing fish...outside of then, is reporting the weight just based on the honor system? I dunno.

And of course, don't forget that all the illegal-length walleyes kept by white guys also aren't being added to our total, either. I'd be willing to bet that the poundage of illegal walleyes kept by white folks far, far, far outweighs the poundage of legal walleyes kept by Native folks.

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  • Your Responses - Share & Have Fun :)

    • Mike89
      that's not good!!!
    • kelly-p
      your post is the first I heard about this ☹️
    • leech~~
      I wonder if he can find someone to help him with his houses this winter?  
    • smurfy
      I've heard cookie was in a bad accident. other then what I read I don't know a whole lot more other then it looks like he's out for the upcoming ice season.    hears to getting back at it!!!!!
    • eyeguy 54
      good tips guys. indeed a good idea to bring some meat along. I find myself using it less and less but good to have in the pocket. 
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      I rarely use live bait anymore unless I'm gonna use 2 rods.  Plastics, gulp,  tied tungsten flies, jigging raps,  rippin raps, darters... the list goes on.  There has been a few times though that a minnow head on a spoon out produced anything I had.  Good thing I had a buddy who borrowed me a few. 😉
    • Tom Sawyer
      Hey Chris what about the tip on putting your favorite concoction in a generic spray bottle to keep it secret, while you proceed to school everyone at the Catfish Get Together 😆
    • IceHawk
      Another option for those that don't have bait laying around or don't want to buy any is to buy a bottle of Berkley gulp recharge and add a little to a bait puck or plastic bag with your plastics for the day.  I myself never go on the ice without a puck with some kind of meat. Call me crazy  but  I've seen situations where it has outperformed plastics.  Fortunately for myself I have a bait fridge in the garage with euro and waxies and a insulated aeroated minnow tank with minnows all winter. A Minnie bait store so to say.😀
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      This I will definitely try this season.  Thank you for the tip @IceHawk
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