Technology opens window on moose lives and deaths

[rkhinrichs]

good read! http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/moose/index.html

[Bear55]

Lots of blue there, especially among calves. Eye opener for sure.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

guess that proves te wolves have little to do with it....... :P

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Right, over half of the pie is done by wolves. Puzzling

[Kettle]

If definitely shows that the wolves are doing a good number on them. I'm curios to know about the ND population of moose. Maybe Scoot can chime in on this topic. From what I have heard the ND moose population is on the rise but I wonder what their wolf population is there. It would be nice to see that if we continue to keep the wolf hunt open and the wolf population at a healthy level that our moose population could then rise again in MN? I remember when I was younger seeing the occasional moose in Northern Aitken county and Southern Itasca County but spent alot of time in that area this fall and didn't see any sign. I truly hope to see them back in that area sometime and if keeping the wolf hunt can do it, I think that is a great option.

Kettle

[walleye18]

Are you kidding me?

The results of this study are what we would expect. The tax payer and money from sportsmen and sportswomen alike did not need to go into this study - a pure waste of funds that could have been used elsewhere.

Wolves kill and continue to kill the moose. The calves population is being reduced, thus the "up and comers" in the moose population demographics are gone/depleted - and the numbers drop. Does not take a PHD in Wildlife Biology to figure this out.

Until the wolf population is curbed and reduced the numbers of moose will continue to decline - FACT!

In 1989 Minnesota said there was about 2,000 animals in the state. A few years ago they said the population was at 2,200 animals - Really? Your telling me since 1989, the population only grew by 200 animals in 23 yrs? C'mon now!

In any natural senario, if the predators out number the prey or are at elevated levels, the prey suffers - could be used on the relationship of fox/rabbits, fish and fishermen...etc.

Minnesota needs to reduce the number of wolves - plain and simple.

[Scoot]

I'm curios to know about the ND population of moose. Maybe Scoot can chime in on this topic. From what I have heard the ND moose population is on the rise but I wonder what their wolf population is there.

Kettle, I don't have any data or numbers to offer you, but I can tell you that the info I've been told is exactly what you said. Numbers appear to be somewhere between steady and slightly on the rise. Not coincidentally, the number of wolves in ND is incredibly low.

They can do all the studies on this they want, but until people acknowledge that the decisions surrounding it are motivated by politics and not science, the research won't do any good.

[minky]

It would be a shame to lose our population of moose. I think we should bring our wolf numbers down to allow the moose to recover.

[leech~~]

Are you kidding me?

The results of this study are what we would expect. The tax payer and money from sportsmen and sportswomen alike did not need to go into this study - a pure waste of funds that could have been used elsewhere.

Wolves kill and continue to kill the moose. The calves population is being reduced, thus the "up and comers" in the moose population demographics are gone/depleted - and the numbers drop. Does not take a PHD in Wildlife Biology to figure this out.

Until the wolf population is curbed and reduced the numbers of moose will continue to decline - FACT!

In 1989 Minnesota said there was about 2,000 animals in the state. A few years ago they said the population was at 2,200 animals - Really? Your telling me since 1989, the population only grew by 200 animals in 23 yrs? C'mon now!

In any natural senario, if the predators out number the prey or are at elevated levels, the prey suffers - could be used on the relationship of fox/rabbits, fish and fishermen...etc.

Minnesota needs to reduce the number of wolves - plain and simple.

walleye18, I agree this study was a waste for sportsmen. But it may be a large help to the DNR to sell the fuzzy Wolf loving public into knowing what impact a lopsided out of balance system they wanted can do to the rest of the wildlife out there. Some group has got to start putting up some bill boards with little cute fuzzy dead Moose calfs up there to get this thing to turn around. It's a battle of hearts and minds at home that needs to be won.

[Bear55]

The results of this study are what we would expect. The tax payer and money from sportsmen and sportswomen alike did not need to go into this study - a pure waste of funds that could have been used elsewhere.

I actually think it was a good study, yes we all knew the wolves were out their doing their thing but sometimes people in office chairs and those who think of wolves as cute and cuddly need an eye opener and this study should get their attention.

[BRULEDRIFTER]

Sadly, I feel that it won't. The data will be spun to continue to place the blame of the moose decline on climate change so the funds keep flowing....

[walleye18]

Agree Leech and Bear 55...understand that the public really needs to see whats happening to the moose population.

Hope the state turns this around and gets the moose population on the "rebound"....my fingers are crossed!

[Musky Buck]

Scoot isn't the ND moose deal that quite a few are showing up more in the plains ish type of terrain and doing alright where the what was considered kinda normal moose range in ND is down some ? Wolves are either running out of prey or there is a lot of them around or people wouldn't be posting tcams shots of wolves in northern Douglas County or near Parkers Prairie. What are they doing in these parts of the state ?

[walleye18]

wolves are "opportunists"...we all know that.

They will travel to the best places that have the best food around.

If one area becomes less abundant with food or is depleted, they move on - hence the movement of wolves to other areas in the state.

[Mo Gator]

I hunted elk in northern Colorado this past fall and the moose population there has actually increased over recent years. There are more opportunities to hunt moose there than ever. Guess what - the wolf population is very low there.

Our moose population isn't being affected by global warming or some crazy unknown parasite. IT'S THE WOLVES! Anyone who deer hunts northern MN knows what's going on. I'm thankful for this survey because it puts the truth in the spotlight.

[charliepete]

So what do you figure is going to happen to any animal living the far northern reaches of this state that becomes sick or distressed? My guess is that wolves are probably going to catch and eat them. I am not wolf apologist (I hunt them), but just because wolves are eating moose doesn't mean there isn't something else precipitating it. Wolves and Moose have lived together in Minnesota for a heck of a long time. The question is why is that relationship now out of balance. I think the real question is what is weakening the moose and making them more susceptible to predation. My guess is some tick related issue. Their numbers have skyrocketed in the past 10 years.

[leech~~]

So what do you figure is going to happen to any animal living the far northern reaches of this state that becomes sick or distressed? My guess is that wolves are probably going to catch and eat them. I am not wolf apologist (I hunt them), but just because wolves are eating moose doesn't mean there isn't something else precipitating it. Wolves and Moose have lived together in Minnesota for a heck of a long time. The question is why is that relationship now out of balance. I think the real question is what is weakening the moose and making them more susceptible to predation. My guess is some tick related issue. Their numbers have skyrocketed in the past 10 years.

Yep, but we need "Balance Grass Hopper" You can't have the highest Wolf Population in the lower 48 in one state and then not expect them to eat theirselves out of house and home. Live trap and move them where ever the Wolf lovers would like to have them, if they don't want them "Thinned out!"

[Bear55]

but just because wolves are eating moose doesn't mean there isn't something else precipitating it.

This is my non-scientific opinion, in the early 2000's you have a deer population boom across the state, more deer than northern MN has ever seen before. With large numbers of deer around the wolves soon followed them. Their numbers got to be large enough that many wolves began to spread out and move further south and west. Eventually the deer population started to collapse and some hard winters kept it down. Now you have a lot more wolves up north and not as much food around so the pressure on the moose was uppped big time, from the looks of the pie chart the calf moose took a beating. Right now the wolf population is coming down to earth and we have a wolf season now, this should help the deer and the moose in the long run.

[CANOPY SAM]

The study doesn't say that wolves are eating all the moose in Minnesota. It says that a large percentage of the moose in the study ended up being eaten by wolves, and at least some of those deaths were initially the result of infection or trauma, which then made the moose easy targets for wolf predation.

I too agree that our wolf population is likely too high, and the statistics shown in this study certainly give some weighty evidence of that. But as others have already stated here, wolves and moose have lived together for centuries, so obviously something else is causing the overall demise of our moose population.

Another non-scientific observation might be this. Moose habitat typically includes wetlands, sloughs, marshes, etc. What percentage of these original habitats still remain across the Moose's original range in Minnesota? Again, I think the statistics would show very, very little original wetlands remain.

We can clearly see what happened to our duck breeding grounds, and migratory loafing areas. They're all but gone. And where did all the ducks go? Most have moved west into the Dakotas where yes, they have also drained much of the original wetlands, yet a lot of marshland/wetland areas remain. This would also speak toward an increase in moose in NoDak.

So now you factor in an increased population of pinnacle predators into an environment where our moose can no longer escape to the expansive wetlands (where wolves cannot likely catch them) and it seems pretty easy to see what will happen to our moose population.

It's troubling to see so many hunters/outdoorsmen so close minded to other indisputable factors as well. Brain worms, parasites, and tick borne viruses are also to blame for the overall decline in moose numbers. This study shows they are not nearly as dominant a factor as our wolf population, but combined with loss of habitat, and other environmental factors, they do have a significant impact.

We have to keep in mind that the majority of adult moose in the study are still alive and doing well. Man's attempts to "balance" nature are often futile. I just hope these magnificent animals find a way to survive and once again flourish in Northern Minnesota. I grew up around moose when they were common. Now, 35 years later, it's extremely rare to even see a moose, and my children don't get the thrill of seeing these awesome animals in their natural habitat.

[B. Amish]

parts of clay and wilkin counties held good numbers of moose in the 80's and 90's. moose are completely gone and there are/were no wolves there.

[leech~~]

The study doesn't say that wolves are eating all the moose in Minnesota. It says that a "large percentage" of the moose in the study ended up being eaten by wolves

Enough said!

[Mo Gator]

Charliepete - the answer to your question is not a tick that is weakening moose making them more vulnerable. It is the sharp rise in the wolf population that is resulting in more predation of moose and deer. In the area I deer hunt near Orr we have experienced a major increase in the wolf population over the past decade, and I know this isn't an isolated thing. Deer numbers are in serious decline up there too and it isn't just the cold weather that is doing it. This year we officially had more trail cam pics of wolves than deer for the first time.

[charliepete]

Mo Gator, where are you getting your figures for quoting a 'sharp rise' in the Wolf population? Is it just off of your own gut feel from the base of experience you have personally? I am more inclined to look at figures from trained biologists that are actually performing studies. The DNR has been running studies for quite some time and you can find a link to it on their website. They are quoting a population change from 1521 in 1989 to 2211 in 2013. That is not what I would call a 'sharp rise' especially when you consider they have expanded their home range in that time (it's not like there are a ton more wolves on a ground that only used to hold a few).

Personally lots of the areas I hunt and fish have always had wolves in large enough numbers for me to know they were there. I have been taking a Walleye fishing trip to the BWCA to the exact same area for the last 25 years over the same week in the spring. Hearing wolves howl at night is commonplace and so were moose sightings. It's been 10 years since I saw a moose

[walleye18]

So Charliepete....you believe the DNR stating that the wolf population was 1529 in 1989 and only 2211 wolves in 2013? Really???? So in 24 yrs, the wolf population only grew by 682 animals?

No way. I dont believe it.

[Musky Buck]

10 4 Amish my friend who has lived Wilkin county his entire life never saw a moose in the 80's or 90's, the one in the city park doesn't count.

[Musky Buck]

Boy am I happy the wolves have found my ground west of New York Mills, couldn't be happier. Nothing like seeing 40 deer come out of the swamp on a dead run in -40 wind chills at high noon, they love doing that, good exercise I guess, makes for tougher meat next fall and relocating to a new wintering ground they like that. No Quota wolves south of US HWY 10 already cmon enough federal trappers already etc. What a waste of your tax dollars, bought the shirt get the wolf out of farm country, sure the moose would beg to differ.

[Mo Gator]

Charliepete, you are right, I don't have specific study to show the increase in wolves in MN... But who does? I think it is ridiculous that the DNR thinks and publishes that there are only 2,200 wolves in this state. I think there are way more, maybe around 5,000 in the state. There are way more wolves in MN than there were 10-20 years ago. I think anyone who runs trail cams in the woods of northern MN would agree because they have the evidence to prove the increase in sightings like I do. My personal experience is isolated to a certain area of NE MN by Orr, but friends and family who hunt in other areas are experiencing the same thing.

I think it's obvious that wolves are the reason for the moose decline, but maybe I'm just too narrow minded to see the big picture...

[Bear55]

Mo Gator, where are you getting your figures for quoting a 'sharp rise' in the Wolf population? Is it just off of your own gut feel from the base of experience you have personally? I am more inclined to look at figures from trained biologists that are actually performing studies. The DNR has been running studies for quite some time and you can find a link to it on their website. They are quoting a population change from 1521 in 1989 to 2211 in 2013. That is not what I would call a 'sharp rise' especially when you consider they have expanded their home range in that time (it's not like there are a ton more wolves on a ground that only used to hold a few).

Personally lots of the areas I hunt and fish have always had wolves in large enough numbers for me to know they were there. I have been taking a Walleye fishing trip to the BWCA to the exact same area for the last 25 years over the same week in the spring. Hearing wolves howl at night is commonplace and so were moose sightings. It's been 10 years since I saw a moose

That is the problem, the DNR is really just guessing what the population is based on some population models they draw up. They don't know for sure how many deer or moose or wolves are out there and they have no clue how accurate their models really are.

I think they are doing the best they can but I suspect that most wildlife population fluctuate a lot more than the ever constant DNR population estimates.

[leech~~]

That is the problem, the DNR is really just guessing what the population is based on some population models they draw up. They don't know for sure how many deer or moose or wolves are out there and they have no clue how accurate their models really are.

I think they are doing the best they can but I suspect that most wildlife population fluctuate a lot more than the ever constant DNR population estimates.

I think they do a lot of their population models by doing winter fly overs and try and get a per mile count from there. I'm sure they can't hit ever grid mile of this state how ever.

[walleye18]

I think we all agree that the wolves are a dynamic to the wildlife here in MN. I for one am glad that they are here.

But....there comes a time when the data (this study) and the data (live stock producers losing animlas to the wolves) and the data (trail cams pictures throughout MN/deer population reductions) suggests that the wolf population is too high and wreaking havoc on wildlife in the state. Time to reduce the wolf population a little.

Am I saying the wolf is the culprit and quilty party to it all..No. But it is a BIG piece to the puzzle.